NESCAC

[Mr. Not Right]

Didn't mean to cause any arguments over who this is.. It is not MENSNESCACFAN.

When the moderator does confirm he will confirm it is not.

To address my "hard ons" -

For the ROY talk, agree that Merchant's goal v Newburry looks like a joke now as it was a 9-0 win. That game was 0-0 at half and Newburry was a six-win team (more wins than Bates) that, as mentioned, did tie MIT. He scored the winner against Trinity and tied the game at 1 against Williams with a goal. Plus scored against Curry, a team Mr. Right and maybe others picked Bates to lose to, and a team that finished its regular season 10-8-1. Bates losing to Maine Maritime was the worst NESCAC team loss of the season outside of Midd losing to Castleton but has little to do with this vote, I would imagine. Not a lot of midfielders are scoring four goals, especially freshman.

COY - Again I do think Seabrook deserves it but will not get it. Mr Right, you and everyone else thought Colby were horrible this season and I agree that they were horrible in terms of ability, and were the least talented team in the NESCAC, but he did something special with that group. I don't think anyone here will deny it. Nobody has picked a Colby player on first team, but they allowed 13 goals overall this season (tied for third best in the league) and 9 goals in conference (tied for second best in the league). They were organized and defended well, a mark of a good coach for me. Last year, with a more talented group of players, the allowed 29 goals in conference. So, letting up 20 fewer goals this season, while playing one more game (playoff v Amherst), is a phenomenal turnaround and should be recognized. They scored 7 goals in conference this season compared to 5 last year, so that number was similar, but the organization and defensive discipline this season that was completely lacked last season was the difference. Credit to the new coaching staff for that.

Odulate - Shouldn't have to defend him here really. Excellent athlete, which you agree with Mr. Right, and to me one of the top defenders in the league. I actually think he is the best RB in the league but is being played out of position at Bowdoin because he is more important to them as a CB this season.

[Mr.Right]

I never said Colby was horrible and I have praised Seabrook enough to make me sick. He got them organized and playing with a belief that has not been seen there in a long time. Lets continue to follow the situation in the next few years. They still need a legit striker or 2 , a GK , creative midfielder or 2, etc. They also had no injuries this year and that will not happen every year. He needs to build the depth of this roster.

Bates has improved A LITTLE. These are not the best recruits Bates has seen as between 2003-2008 Bates had some very talented teams. Much  more talent than this current squad. I saw both Bates teams numerous times and there is no comparison. For as much as you all loved Bates and the recruits that Flaherty brought in and for that matter Flaherty himself, where are they now? when did their season end? In 3 years he has not cracked a Nescac play off spot. Should we give him 5 years? 10?

[Mr. Not Right]

Agree on Colby point. I think Seabrook will add depth with his first recruiting class and build on it from there.

I watched Bates a few times back then but not enough to comment. Looking at Purgavie's biography online I can see: "Between 2001 and 2011, he led the Bobcats to six postseason appearances in the NESCAC Championship, including a three-year span from 2004 to 2006 that included an appearance in the tournament semifinals and a 27-14-5 record."

Seems like a below-average NESCAC team to me, especially when you consider Hamilton wasn't in the league at that point, so eight out of ten teams made the playoffs each year. In those ten seasons, Bates was either last or second to last in the league four times and only won a playoff game once. I don't know how far ahead they were of this current Bates team, of which the majority of the best players are freshman and sophomores.

I think every coach should be given five years to mark his mark on the program unless really poor on-field results and/or off field problems occur. So much of the job is recruiting and after five years as a head coach, a coach finally has a team built of entirely his own players.

Obviously, success recruits itself as Williams has shown for decades. Good players want to play for good, proven teams.

I think five-ten years from now Colby and Bates will be in the middle third, edging towards the top third of the league, Hamilton will be at the very bottom and Bowdoin and Trinity will be in the bottom third as well. Basing this on the talent the coaches bring in/ I think they will bring in.

[PaulNewman]

One point on Bates from a very great distance.  Assuming they are recruiting better another question would be how they develop once they get here and do they get disgruntled along the way.  I will say up front that I have zero knowledge of the reasons but there were several good players who were getting decent to starter playing time who would be seniors who were no longer playing this year (at least 3, maybe 1 or 2 more).

I would place a slightly bigger bet on Colby over the next 4-5 years.

[Mr.Right]

Bates and Colby need to be creative and can not go after the same players as Bowdoin. They will lose that battle every day. I have heard Seabrook has been all over the country which for a Nescac is different but impressive. Let' see if any of those players pan out and if they do matriculate at Colby. If they do not matriculate will he start throwing in the towel or applying elsewhere? Coaches learn at these Nescac bottom feeders that you have to do almost double the recruiting work of say an Amherst and Williams.

[RelegationZone]

Long-time follower. First-time poster.

ROY:  Ward (Bowdoin)

POY:  Grady (Williams)

COY:  Shapiro (Tufts)

[Mr.Right]

Are we voting on who we want to win or who will win?

Who Will Win:
COY-Shapiro
POY-NPL
ROY-Cowie-Haskel

Who I want to Win:

COY-Shapiro
POY-NPL
ROY-Cowie-Haskel

[Mr.Right]

For 1st and 2nd team Nescac coaches get to pick a GK and 5 field players and rank them 1-5. Some coaches may put less than 5 players out there or no GK it really depends on the coach.

[PaulNewman]

Mr.Right, let's get Tufts in the tournament first before we officially announce Shapiro as COY.  With what has happened with MSU, Luther, etc and Babson leaping Tufts who knows what is going to happen, although I do think Tufts is going to get in and Midd is not unless they win final.

[Mr.Right]

They will go 6 deep in New England. Tufts needs WPI and Babson to lose on Saturday at Wheaton which is possible. It would also help them if Amherst won the Nescac tournament.

[PaulNewman]

Mr.Right, even your buddy Off Pitch will have to admit you know a ton about D3 soccer.  Can't believe you had details on how Messiah used the Fri-Sat set-up.

Anyway, with Tufts, do you think they are competing with Babson and WPI only, or do you think what happens with Rochester, RPI, Montclair, Salisbury, etc will factor in?

[MENESCACFAN]

It would be a terrible shame if Tufts do not make the NCAA tournament.  They have a week or so to regroup and shake off the mental blow of loss, and the talent to make a real deep run if the mindset is right.

Does  anyone know if Kramer is eligible to play if they do make the tourney?

[Brother Flounder]

All NESCAC thoughts:

POY - Pascual-Leone. Glaser is the best player in the league IMO, but don't think he will get the votes here.

ROY - Merchant. Along with Knoth, he carried a pretty weak Bates team since returning from injury. Very good + dangerous two-way player.

COY - Shapiro. I think Seabrook deserves it for getting the absolute most out of a Colby squad that was horrible last year, graduated its two best players, and didn't have any great incoming players. However, I don't think he wins this award, Shapiro has done a great job to turn the Tufts team around.

First Team

GK – Sydor (Middlebury)
D – Bratt (Wesleyan)
D – Odulate (Bowdoin)
D – Williams (Tufts)
M – Santos (Tufts)
M – Devlin (Conn)
M – Martin (Amherst)
M – Pascual – Leone (Amherst)
F – Conrad (Middlebury)
F – Grady (Williams)
F – Glaser (Middlebury)


Second Team

GK – Bull (Amherst)
D – Wirz (Amherst)
D – Danilack (Williams)
D – Stanton (Colby)
M – Shea (Trinity)
M – Merchant (Bates)
M – Kayne (Tufts)
M – Goss – Woliner (Middlebury)
M – Jones (Bowdoin)
F – Knoth (Bates)
F – Savonen (Trinity)

I can't see two Middlebury forwards making the first team.....I also don't see two Amherst midfielders making the first team. While Amherst did better this year at using the midfield it is generally not their style. tufts had the most impressive midfield this year, both in style of play and importance. Most of them even scored more than their forwards. From the games I saw, Kayne, brown, pinhiro and Santos played well.  Santos is flashy and came on strong. brown is a fighter. Kayne, very versatile, dictates the tempo and play and both he and brown play great defense. pinhiro is steady and good on set plays.  I think two of them will make the first team....probably Kayne and santos, but can see another combination.....

Nutmeg, I would tend to agree with your analysis here, and the comments that it would be a travesty of the Jumbos weren't given an at-large bid....

[MENESCACFAN]

NCAC

Out of interest, who are the 3 older Bates players you liked no longer playing or benched?  I watch a fair amount of Bates games and know a few parents well with kids on the team.  Nick Ford quit, but also quit the Lacrosse team where he was a leading scorer.  I am told by parents he is a sailor and close to national champion level and focused on that.

I can't think of any others to be honest out side of injuries that ended careers.

I would also place a slightly larger bet on Colby, but am pleased to see all three Maine teams trending up.

MR raises some good points about Bowdoin's best players being O'Leary guys, but with a strong program the older players will typically be the better ones.  Freshman Sam Ward and Nick Di Stefano showed well this fall and will be good.  I also hear they have an excellent CM from Rivers coming who had interest from several Ivies.

[PaulNewman]

I was thinking of Sorice and Schliech (sp?), but I see Sorice was on the roster and playing so maybe got injured?  So maybe not as many as I thought.  I can't recall how many frosh they started with who would be seniors, but every program has some attrition like that.