NESCAC

[PaulNewman]

Completely disagree with you Bucket.  After what Bull did to that one kicker in particular the kicker was completely within his rights to jaw back after scoring.  In fact, if had been that player I would have confronted Bull again after the game was over.  Completely out of line.

Bull was egregiously over the top.  But I blame the ref more.  The refs have got to be attuned to that stuff and intercede.  The refs (all 3) have nothing else to worry about but the PKs and have no excuse not to be on top of it.  And the notion that the Bowdoin GK did anything remotely similar is outrageous.  He did not significantly delay or interfere with the Amherst PK takers.

[Bucket]

Completely disagree with you Bucket.  After what Bull did to that one kicker in particular the kicker was completely within his rights to jaw back after scoring.  In fact, if had been that player I would have confronted Bull again after the game was over.  Completely out of line.

Bull was egregiously over the top.  But I blame the ref more.  The refs have got to be attuned to that stuff and intercede.  The refs (all 3) have nothing else to worry about but the PKs and have no excuse not to be on top of it.  And the notion that the Bowdoin GK did anything remotely similar is outrageous.  He did not significantly delay or interfere with the Amherst PK takers.

I was fine with the Bowdoin player jawing precisely because of Bull's theatrics. But again, it's silly to say that one is ok while the other is not. Hold both to the same standard.

[PaulNewman]

Nope, because it's not the same at all.  One is a complete instigation and the other is having to delay, block it out, make the kick, and then after let the GK know you didn't appreciate his bull#4t (no pun intended).   And some trash-talking and even a little gamesmanship during the actual game and run of play for me is different than the PK scenarios, which by virtue of the very deadlocked outcome should be fair and have some regulation to them in terms of procedure and what is allowed or not allowed.  I can see that Bull can (should?) do what he can if permitted but as I said the refs at that point literally have nothing else to do but to make sure the PK process is fair.  There is no scenario where the ref shouldn't be the one handing the player the ball.

[Bucket]

Nope, because it's not the same at all.  One is a complete instigation and the other is having to delay, block it out, make the kick, and then after let the GK know you didn't appreciate his bull#4t (no pun intended).   And some trash-talking and even a little gamesmanship during the actual game and run of play for me is different than the PK scenarios, which by virtue of the very deadlocked outcome should be fair and have some regulation to them in terms of procedure and what is allowed or not allowed.  I can see that Bull can (should?) do what he can if permitted but as I said the refs at that point literally have nothing else to do but to make sure the PK process is fair.  There is no scenario where the ref shouldn't be the one handing the player the ball.

I'm with you on the ref's responsibilities here. He shouldn't have allowed Bull to walk all the way up to the player and place the ball.

It could be that I'm more blase about Bull's behavior because it's classic Amherst. (See my earlier posts.) I don't expect anything different. The best reward is beating them.

Of course, I will admit my own hypocrisy. If it were my team he was doing this to, I could very well be more exercised. It's easier for me to make these above-the-fray, moral stands when I don't have proverbial skin in the game.

[Nutmeg]

So, does the Nescac get 2 or 3 teams in?

[1970s NESCAC Player]

So, does the Nescac get 2 or 3 teams in?

Three. The two finalists and Tufts.

[PaulNewman]

3...Mr.Right is projecting 4-5 for UAA and NESCAC with Bowdoin surprise gets 3.

[jumpshot]

amHerst athletic department has no standards for behavior --- culture has deteriorated into arrogance, poor sportsmanship, "optimistic" admissions, focus on major sports, recent highly publicized on-campus shortcomings, pressure on coaches from AD, president, etc., as a result of trying to play catch-up with Williams (Directors' Cups, academic standing, successful new buildings), Middlebury's Panther Pride (competitive spirit, community involvement, etc.).

Lj's alumni and faculty not happy with overall situation and tone ...changes on the way...

[Nutmeg]

amHerst athletic department has no standards for behavior --- culture has deteriorated into arrogance, poor sportsmanship, "optimistic" admissions, focus on major sports, recent highly publicized on-campus shortcomings, pressure on coaches from AD, president, etc., as a result of trying to play catch-up with Williams (Directors' Cups, academic standing, successful new buildings), Middlebury's Panther Pride (competitive spirit, community involvement, etc.).

Lj's alumni and faculty not happy with overall situation and tone ...changes on the way...

Is this speculation or fact? Do u really think much will change?  And what is optimistic admissions...under 28 ACT's?

[blooter442]

I agree that the Bowdoin kid had the final say by putting the ball in the net. If you don't like the keeper's behavior, the goal should be enough. But to then cheer on the scorer's gloating...well, isn't that a touch hypocritical?

Either love both or decry both; you can't pick and choose.

Obviously, neither is morally "good." However, my position with those kind of things is that, if someone antagonizes you in that situation and you defeat them, then you are perfectly entitled to equal (celebratory) retaliation. You could certainly argue that the goal being scored is equal retaliation, but I think that if the 'keeper is being obnoxious to the kicker that the kicker has the right to gloat if they score. I certainly don't think you're "wrong"; I just see it differently.

Tangental opinion: Though I think they are the best team in the NESCAC, I also think Amherst got what they deserved. Sure, Bowdoin was very lucky to get as far as they did in the tournament—I won't deny that. However—in my opinion—Amherst has played uninspiring soccer all year, gotten two ties in the last minute when they should have lost both games, and just been very lucky overall. Their luck ran out today; we shall see if it comes back during the tournament. I, for one, as a Brandeis fan, recognize that Amherst's physical—yet effective—style could certainly cause the Judges problems if the two were to meet, and I might even pick Amherst over Brandeis. However, I am not a fan of the way Amherst plays.

Let me say that I do realize that, at the end of the day, it's about winning games. However, while objectively their style of play gets them results (fact), I don't like the way they do it (opinion).

[Jump4Joy]

Agree about the Brandeis style. The Bowdoin/Midd match was more to my liking style-wise. I was surprised to hear from at least one poster that it was a snoozer. I tend to get glassy eyed when the ball pops up all over the place for no reason. Guys in Amherst know how to play the beautiful game, but it is not the favored flavor. The rock em sock em has won conference titles in recent times, but maybe the league is changing its style, so the Jeffs might have to adapt.

[Nutmeg]

I agree that the Bowdoin kid had the final say by putting the ball in the net. If you don't like the keeper's behavior, the goal should be enough. But to then cheer on the scorer's gloating...well, isn't that a touch hypocritical?

Either love both or decry both; you can't pick and choose.

Obviously, neither is morally "good." However, my position with those kind of things is that, if someone antagonizes you in that situation and you defeat them, then you are perfectly entitled to equal (celebratory) retaliation. You could certainly argue that the goal being scored is equal retaliation, but I think that if the 'keeper is being obnoxious to the kicker that the kicker has the right to gloat if they score. I certainly don't think you're "wrong"; I just see it differently.

Tangental opinion: Though I think they are the best team in the NESCAC, I also think Amherst got what they deserved. Sure, Bowdoin was very lucky to get as far as they did in the tournament—I won't deny that. However—in my opinion—Amherst has played uninspiring soccer all year, gotten two ties in the last minute when they should have lost both games, and just been very lucky overall. Their luck ran out today; we shall see if it comes back during the tournament. I, for one, as a Brandeis fan, recognize that Amherst's physical—yet effective—style could certainly cause the Judges problems if the two were to meet, and I might even pick Amherst over Brandeis. However, I am not a fan of the way Amherst plays.

Let me say that I do realize that, at the end of the day, it's about winning games. However, while objectively their style of play gets them results (fact), I don't like the way they do it (opinion).

I not sold either that Amherst would beat Brandeis. Tufts dominated Amherst this year but Amherst tied the game because of an inadvertent hand ball in the box....and Brandeis beat Tufts... I am not even sure Amherst is any better than Tufts at this point..and kudos to Bowdoin...

[12SNoon]

Was at the game today. Great game by Bowdoin -- they did a really good job staying compact and making it difficult for Amherst to get good looks. That tactical decision, combined with a bit of luck (Nico P-L hitting the post, Cam B. sending a shot just wide, etc.) got them a well-deserved victory.

Re: PK shootout. Great shots by both teams and Bull very unlucky on the first shot -- that goal was ultimately the difference. The ball hit the post, ricocheted off his back, and then trickled in by only a few inches. A few inches can win a championship!

I also wanted to opine on what some posters here are saying about Thomas Bull. He is not a dirty player, or any of the other adjectives some posters used to describe him, at all. He's a fierce competitor and emotions were running high today. It's very easy to look at things from 500 feet away and see them one way, but between the lines things aren't always so black and white. I was privileged to call him a teammate for one year and he's one of the nicest young guys you'll ever meet. As for his back and fourth/gamesmanship, it was INTENSE. It's part of the reason why I love college sports! There was also 3 referees standing within 10 yards of him that didn't think it was a big deal.

(I briefly thought about posting YouTube links here showing the top goalies in the world doing the exact same things before penalty shootouts, but you can all look them up yourselves!)

...can't wait for the NCAA's, and Amherst's first Final Four since 2008! 

[Nutmeg]

Was at the game today. Great game by Bowdoin -- they did a really good job staying compact and making it difficult for Amherst to get good looks. That tactical decision, combined with a bit of luck (Nico P-L hitting the post, Cam B. sending a shot just wide, etc.) got them a well-deserved victory.

Re: PK shootout. Great shots by both teams and Bull very unlucky on the first shot -- that goal was ultimately the difference. The ball hit the post, ricocheted off his back, and then trickled in by only a few inches. A few inches can win a championship!

I also wanted to opine on what some posters here are saying about Thomas Bull. He is not a dirty player, or any of the other adjectives some posters used to describe him, at all. He's a fierce competitor and emotions were running high today. It's very easy to look at things from 500 feet away and see them one way, but between the lines things aren't always so black and white. I was privileged to call him a teammate for one year and he's one of the nicest young guys you'll ever meet. As for his back and fourth/gamesmanship, it was INTENSE. It's part of the reason why I love college sports! There was also 3 referees standing within 10 yards of him that didn't think it was a big deal.

(I briefly thought about posting YouTube links here showing the top goalies in the world doing the exact same things before penalty shootouts, but you can all look them up yourselves!)

...can't wait for the NCAA's, and Amherst's first Final Four since 2008!

Appreciate the classy response and viewpoint. Yes, things get intense but imho I really think he was over the top, notwithstanding that he is a nice guy. thanks

[All NESCAC]

Blotter in agreement regarding Amherst style...understand it from a tactical perspective but absolutely loathe watching that style.  Also to a prior poster who rightfully pointed out yesterdays amount of Conn fouls against Amherst when decrying thuggery all over the pitch....when you play the bully you either fight fire with fire or you get crushed.  Take a look accross the NESCAC at Amhersts opponents and you will find that vs Amherst the opponents fouls much higher than their game average....reason is because of Amhersts thuggery which is by design.  The other teams would rather just play soccer but Amherst dictates a physical brawl take place and you either fight or get knocked out....unfortunately most teams cant compete with Amhrrsts athletic physicality but Bowdoin Middlebury and Tufts can this year.
also NPL of Amherst is my POY he was terrific thus weekend