NESCAC

[oldonionbag]

Mr. Right- selections come out at 1:30 today on the NCAA website correct?

[PaulNewman]

A happy day for this fan that the NESCAC championship is heading to Maine for a year.

Even as a Bowdoin fan today, the reaction to Bull I find totally overblown.  He is approximately the 1,000th soccer goalkeeper to attempt mind games in a shootout.

Here is an amusing psyche out attempt and response from scorer in D1 that went viral this year;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAudm4_1lBY

Bruce 'Spaghetti legs' Grobelaar is also revered for this famous shootout in Europe;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2GyLdD1iwE

While it may fit an agenda, this is a common tactic and not Amherst arrogance.  If it backfires then you look silly and take it on the chin, which I am sure Bull will.

Go UBears!  Now let's hope for three teams in the tourney tomorrow.

It's a common tactic to walk up to the top of 6 and do a stare down or say something, and to do all of that hand waving and swaying back and forth going back to the goal and while awaiting the kick in goal (none of which refs should alow in my opinion).  It is NOT common to go to the extremes that Bull did.  And I blame the ref for being so aloof and unfocused and not interceding.  IF Bowdoin had lost (not advanced) this topic would be on fire on this thread, and if any of our faves lost in the face of that, we would be incensed. Imagine Amherst losing in PKs to Williams with the Williams GK acting like that with a final four berth on the line.

[MENESCACFAN]

Yes it is common, watched this game for a long time and seen the likes over and again, will in the future too.  I wonder if Bull did not play for Amherst if the criticism would be quite as stinging.

Out of interest I went back on these boards and compared the reaction to the two incidents, also compared the level of criticism kids received;

1)   Thomas Bull playing mind games in a shootout.
2)  Peter Lee Kramer violently assaulting a Bowdoin player with a cheap elbow, leaving the kid knocked out and likely seriously injured.

Thomas Bull receives the most criticism?  Surprising.

Seems an anti-Amherst vibe with priorities out of whack to be honest.

[PaulNewman]

Absolutely not MENESCACFAN.  Kramer did get nailed on this site and only reason it hasn't been worse is because it was so serious most probably have been nervous to comment about it.  Notice that several have asked how long he is suspended and no will answer that.

You keep avoiding what would have been the reaction if Bowdoin has lost.  I think you should watch a replay of exactly how it went down and especially with that 4th kicker.  Now imagine YOUR team losing 5-4 on PKs against a GK acting like that.

What Bull did with that 4th kicker especially and then also the monkey bar swinging on the goal so the goal was still shaking when the kick was taken were OVERBOARD.  Should have been carded.

I have been an Amherst defender (albeit not a fan particularly) and mostly have defended Serpone who I think should be the COY.  The comments about Bull for the most part have nothing to do with an anti-Amherst bias.  To be honest, I was shocked by his behavior.  And I had a very similar reaction to the Calvin GK.

Again, you are not considering to what degree this thread would have blown up had Bowdoin lost in the face of that. 

BTW, if you go back you'll see that I nominated Bull not just for 1st team GK but also NESCAC POY.

And part of the reason this topic also is going on more than the Kramer one is because of defenses by folks like you.  No one defended the Kramer incident.

[oldonionbag]

With regards to the Kramer thing, I think that every single poster on here was a bit shocked at how out of line that was. That's not something you can debate ie "he had every right to hit him/he should not have hit him." I think the reason we're debating the Bull thing is because there are actually two sides. With the Kramer case, I can't see how one could defend that.

For the record, while gamesmanship is to be expected (and I won't knock a keeper for trying to throw off the shooter during a PK), that was a little ridiculous. Jumping around and waving your arms, sure...but Bull walking up and staring the shooter down while placing the ball on the spot, then proceeding to channel his inner 5 year old by jumping on the bar was a bit over the top. Still, you're always going to try and get away with as much as you can, and I think the responsibility falls on the ref to take control of the situation. You don't just blow the whistle to signal to the shooter he can shoot...you have to continue to ref the game. A yellow, a verbal warning, or asking for the ball from Bull and then giving it to the next PK taker all were viable options, yet he did nothing.

[PaulNewman]

With regards to the Kramer thing, I think that every single poster on here was a bit shocked at how out of line that was. That's not something you can debate ie "he had every right to hit him/he should not have hit him." I think the reason we're debating the Bull thing is because there are actually two sides. With the Kramer case, I can't see how one could defend that.

For the record, while gamesmanship is to be expected (and I won't knock a keeper for trying to throw off the shooter during a PK), that was a little ridiculous. Jumping around and waving your arms, sure...but Bull walking up and staring the shooter down while placing the ball on the spot, then proceeding to channel his inner 5 year old by jumping on the bar was a bit over the top. Still, you're always going to try and get away with as much as you can, and I think the responsibility falls on the ref to take control of the situation. You don't just blow the whistle to signal to the shooter he can shoot...you have to continue to ref the game. A yellow, a verbal warning, or asking for the ball from Bull and then giving it to the next PK taker all were viable options, yet he did nothing.

Exactly!  Right on the money.  That ref should never ref another playoff game again.  Unbelieveably aloof for a conference final with a NCAA berth on the line.  It took him to the 5th kick before he at least interceded by running to get the ball himself so that Bull couldn't do a repeat performance.

[Ireallylikesoccer]

Out of interest I went back on these boards and compared the reaction to the two incidents, also compared the level of criticism kids received;

1)   Thomas Bull playing mind games in a shootout.
2)  Peter Lee Kramer violently assaulting a Bowdoin player with a cheap elbow, leaving the kid knocked out and likely seriously injured.

Was in attendance at this game and happened to be standing close to the Tufts 18 when this happened. Although I agree the foul was uncalled for and should have been grounds for an immediate red, the video feed actually makes it look worse than it was. In reality, the player was NOT knocked out and got up only seconds later, was never inspected by one of the trainers that were present, and continued to play in both overtimes. There was not even a visible mark from the elbow which would be expected from a hard knock to the nose/mouth/face region. The foul was committed (stupidly) inside the penalty box with only a minute or two left in regulation, so naturally Bowdoin appealed for the penalty, which would include the player who got knocked to stay on the ground and embellish a little, which is only natural and I do not blame him. It does however make the foul look much more atrocious on video as the feed was cut off before we are able to see the events that follow.

[All NESCAC]

With regards to the Kramer thing, I think that every single poster on here was a bit shocked at how out of line that was. That's not something you can debate ie "he had every right to hit him/he should not have hit him." I think the reason we're debating the Bull thing is because there are actually two sides. With the Kramer case, I can't see how one could defend that.

For the record, while gamesmanship is to be expected (and I won't knock a keeper for trying to throw off the shooter during a PK), that was a little ridiculous. Jumping around and waving your arms, sure...but Bull walking up and staring the shooter down while placing the ball on the spot, then proceeding to channel his inner 5 year old by jumping on the bar was a bit over the top. Still, you're always going to try and get away with as much as you can, and I think the responsibility falls on the ref to take control of the situation. You don't just blow the whistle to signal to the shooter he can shoot...you have to continue to ref the game. A yellow, a verbal warning, or asking for the ball from Bull and then giving it to the next PK taker all were viable options, yet he did nothing.

Spot on Oldonionbag...both on the Kramer incident and the Bull criticism.  Regarding the anti-Amherst wave in general...no question it's there, but it's only there because the Lord Jeff's earned it.  They are like Ben Stiller's character in the movie "Dodgeball"...."We're Global Gym, we're better than you, and we know it!"

[All NESCAC]

Out of interest I went back on these boards and compared the reaction to the two incidents, also compared the level of criticism kids received;

1)   Thomas Bull playing mind games in a shootout.
2)  Peter Lee Kramer violently assaulting a Bowdoin player with a cheap elbow, leaving the kid knocked out and likely seriously injured.

Was in attendance at this game and happened to be standing close to the Tufts 18 when this happened. Although I agree the foul was uncalled for and should have been grounds for an immediate red, the video feed actually makes it look worse than it was. In reality, the player was NOT knocked out and got up only seconds later, was never inspected by one of the trainers that were present, and continued to play in both overtimes. There was not even a visible mark from the elbow which would be expected from a hard knock to the nose/mouth/face region. The foul was committed (stupidly) inside the penalty box with only a minute or two left in regulation, so naturally Bowdoin appealed for the penalty, which would include the player who got knocked to stay on the ground and embellish a little, which is only natural and I do not blame him. It does however make the foul look much more atrocious on video as the feed was cut off before we are able to see the events that follow.

By shear luck this deliberate elbow did not do more damage....it was very close to doing severe damage and the intentional nature it was delivered leaves little question regarding a sanction.  Thank god the Bowdoin player wasn't seriously hurt.

[oldonionbag]

3 NESCACs are in:

Bowdoin
Amherst
Tufts

[CacCaptain]

Good to see the committee got things right. Wouldn't we all love to see a Tufts vs Coast Guard sweet 16 matchup!

[All NESCAC]

Good to see the committee got things right. Wouldn't we all love to see a Tufts vs Coast Guard sweet 16 matchup!

Would be nice, but Tufts has a better chance than Coast Guard of making it that far.  Can't seem to find out who is hosting rounds 1/2 on the NCAA website...does anyone know who is hosting in New England?

[oldonionbag]

Good to see the committee got things right. Wouldn't we all love to see a Tufts vs Coast Guard sweet 16 matchup!

Would be nice, but Tufts has a better chance than Coast Guard of making it that far.  Can't seem to find out who is hosting rounds 1/2 on the NCAA website...does anyone know who is hosting in New England?

Agreed, except that Dickinson is far better than Catholic. Dickinson beat them 3-0 this year. Another easier draw for CGA...I guess the committee seems to like them!

[blooter442]

Below are my general observations regarding the draw.

Bowdoin: Assuming both teams make it out of the first round, I think Bowdoin could give Brandeis some problems physically and on set pieces. However, they lack any real dynamism on offense. Furthermore, while Brandeis would have every reason to fear Amherst due to its physicality, Bowdoin is not as potent as Amherst offensively. Henshall, White, and Goitia are good players, but White is not nearly as physical as he should be given his stature. I do like Van Siclen and I think he could be as good as Greenwood and Bull if he keeps it up. Charlier, after a standout frosh campaign, really hasn't impressed me at all; he appears to have lost significant dynamism. I like Bowdoin—it is near where I grew up and I come from a Bowdoin family—but they don't have any real speed or skill that I have seen. They are a "solid" team, but could very well get sawed apart by a team that is quicker and more dynamic. That said, White's goal against Williams was great, and if the Bears can conjure up some kind of magic like that they could be in for a good run.

Amherst: Couldn't believe that they aren't hosting. Then again, I can. I don't think they've played particularly well all season, and very well could have lost against Middlebury and Mt. St. Mary. I've only watched St. Lawrence a few times, but, the Rochester loss aside, they've been very good. As far as Amherst goes, NPL—who should be NESCAC POY in my eyes, Bull (despite his Bull$#!* yesterday, pun intended), Singer, and Wirz have impressed me. Not sure how to feel about their chances. On the one hand, they are an experienced team, but I think we all agree that they are their most "vulnerable" they have been in years.

Tufts: Good to see Tufts make it in, especially considering their body of work all year. It's hard to tell how far they'll go, but, as NCAC said, they have A/A- talent. They are solid front to back. Santos is finally playing on a consistent basis; he is their best player in my mind when he is on his game. Hoppenot, while lacking true speed, is a solid target man. Moving back, I really like Kayne, Pinheiro, and Williams as well, and Greenwood is an excellent goalkeeper. IMHO, when Tufts is on its game, it is the best team in the NESCAC. The big question is which Tufts team shows up? After all, I think Wheaton, despite its uncharacteristic loss this weekend, is a very, very solid team, and, coupled with home-field advantage, would make a very tough second-round opponent.

Either way, definitely looking forward to the first two rounds this weekend.

[oldonionbag]

Agree with all of your points here Blooter, but let's remember to take it one game at a time  Here's to hoping all 3 NESCACs get past the first round!