NESCAC

[Brother Flounder]

Back to the matter at hand.  The Jumbos are primed and ready for a run to the National Championship!!  The team is practicing well and there are no injuries to report.  They leave Boston at 12:30 tomorrow and will get a day on the field prior to Friday's semi against O/W.  Tough final four field for sure but I think the seniors are going to get us through to the finals.  Then its up to Santos, Hoppenot, Kayne, Halliday, Williams, Kramer, Patel, Zinner, Greenwood and the rest of the Boys to bring home the championship!!  Go NESCAC and GO JUMBOS!!!!

GET EM BOS!!!

[KnightFalcon]

Thanks oldonionbag.  That was excellent and all rings true.

As much as the NESCAC gets the most attention by far, and while I am very familiar with the schools as I live in the region, there oddly is a bit of mystery around the schools and conference, especially for those out of the area, and which I think is partly a function of the insularity of the schools.  Because so many games are devoted to playing each other, and since they play less total games, we don't get to see these schools play a lot of the other noteworthy soccer D3s.  Even in the tournament they tend to play each other or a very familiar regional foe like Brandeis or SLU.  All of this as a backdrop makes the Tufts vs OWU matchup very interesting/compelling.  As has been noted in the other threads, this edition of OWU isn't the best in recent years, but it is still very good and has peaked at the right time with only one loss in probably more than two months.  On the other hand, Tufts probably will throw more overall talent at OWU than any team OWU has faced this year, so I am curious to see how OWU will handle the offensive weaponry of the Jumbos.  I'm gonna say that two of OWU's bigger, athletic midfielders, Barnes and Rieger, are going to be key to the outcome, as well as whether OWU's outside backs can hold their own.  Both teams should feel they have an excellent chance to move on to the Final.  I'm leaning Tufts, and Greenwood could be key for them.  OWU are masters of the early goal, and I don't like Tufts as much if they go down a goal, so scoring first will be big as well.

Spot on NCAC - I'm picking Tufts as well, but all bets are off if OWU scores early and makes Tufts chase the game. Having only seen Tufts once, I'm really curious to see if that magnificent effort was a once in a lifetime event where everything comes together at the right moment or if they are able to bring that same level of effort, discipline and skill on Friday after 2 weeks off. I'm expecting the latter and will be disappointed if their sectional final effort was just an aberration.

Well, Tufts did win 2 road games in the tourney against home teams (Muhlenberg and Wheaton)....so, IMHO you can't say their journey to date has been an aberration to date.

Let me rephrase - what I meant was that I've only seen Tufts play one game ...ever. So I was wondering if that Messiah game performance was pretty typical compared to their season to date and therefore I should expect to see a similar level of play against OWU on Friday. Or was that their best performance to date and something that will be tough to duplicate. I'm expecting a performance equal to what I saw against Messiah which is why I'm picking them to win Friday. Did not mean to imply anything other than that.

[Nutmeg]

That game against Messiah was a war and the "Giant Slayer" goal was enough to win. I watched all of the Tufts tournament games on video and Tufts has brought it every game. They did "lay an egg" against Conn College in the NESCAC tourney but they seemed to have learned to come out strong since then.  They also outplayed Amherst this year even though the game ended in a tie due to an inadvertent handball in the box. If they bring that intensity they can advance to the final....their midfield play was some of the nicest in the NESCAC this year....

[Mr.Right]

Tufts performance is pretty typical than to what they played against Messiah. A couple things..Tufts is used to a narrow field like the one at Muhlenberg as their home field is narrow and not the best surface. OWU is as athletic as Messiah and on a bigger field this might cause Tufts some problems. Tufts is far from anemic scoring goals so if they do fall behind not to worry. This two week break has not been helpful to Nescac teams in the Final 4 for whatever reason. Maybe academics or who knows or maybe just a coincidence. Maybe because it is the first time all year they have taken flights for games unlike other teams. I really do not know. I think it will be an even game with a late game winner by either side

[Nutmeg]

Tufts performance is pretty typical than to what they played against Messiah. A couple things..Tufts is used to a narrow field like the one at Muhlenberg as their home field is narrow and not the best surface. OWU is as athletic as Messiah and on a bigger field this might cause Tufts some problems. Tufts is far from anemic scoring goals so if they do fall behind not to worry. This two week break has not been helpful to Nescac teams in the Final 4 for whatever reason. Maybe academics or who knows or maybe just a coincidence. Maybe because it is the first time all year they have taken flights for games unlike other teams. I really do not know. I think it will be an even game with a late game winner by either side

Don't think its a flight thing as many of these players played for the USSDA and made several trips by plane and bus....lets go NESCAC!

[Midwest Soccer]

Don't think many D3 teams outside of the UAA fly anywhere for games...outside of, maybe, the 1st or 2nd weekend of the year.

[Mr.Right]

How stupid of me to question academy players' routines.

[All NESCAC]

The recent Final Four NESCAC swoons are probably just a natural progression of playing the cream of the crop. However, I do know that given the delay in timing and running into the late semester the last two Williams teams had HUGE end of year Academic requirements (papers, tests...) which they received no relief/delay from the Institution during this travel period down to the Final Four which had a number of these Student Athletes scrambling during the Final Four writing papers and studying for Exams.  Of course every college team runs into this sort of thing, but certainly in the NESCAC there is no relief or delay given and I'm sure it doesn't help any team having such conflicting competing priorities.  Just saying.   

[madzillagd]

I know for the Williams basketball team, a good portion of the team sat down for a midterm proctored by an assistant coach at 10 pm the night before the Amherst Final Four game.  Nice tool to make sure your players are in the hotel and not out screwing around the night before the big game

[PaulNewman]

The recent Final Four NESCAC swoons are probably just a natural progression of playing the cream of the crop. However, I do know that given the delay in timing and running into the late semester the last two Williams teams had HUGE end of year Academic requirements (papers, tests...) which they received no relief/delay from the Institution during this travel period down to the Final Four which had a number of these Student Athletes scrambling during the Final Four writing papers and studying for Exams.  Of course every college team runs into this sort of thing, but certainly in the NESCAC there is no relief or delay given and I'm sure it doesn't help any team having such conflicting competing priorities.  Just saying.

You can't have it both ways (or maybe you can).  Compared to the other elite LACs in the country (top 50), the NESCAC schools have far and way more of an athletic emphasis.  How many years in a row has Williams won the Director's Cup?  While they are perhaps more regulated (or have the appearance of tighter, more restrictive regulations) the NESCACs are famous for the "jock-scholar" environment.  Sports are bigger on NESCAC campuses than at many other D3s.  It's hard to imagine that the schools don't support and make some accommodations for teams involved in deep NCAA runs.  And I doubt there are any data to indicate that they have less accommodations than similar non-NESCAC schools in other regions of the country.

[nescac1]

One of the main reasons NESCAC schools seem to have more of an athletic presence / jock reputation / perform well in the Director's Cup is not so much the accommodations for athletes, which I guarantee are not anything special or unique (and if anything, the opposite is true), but rather just how MANY sports NESCAC schools have.  Look at Williams for example: a big chunk of the Ephs' directors cup points every year come from sports like women's crew, men's and women's golf, skiiing, and wrestling that few D3 college even offer.  If there is a D3 sport with a national tournament, the majority of NESCAC schools will field a team in that sport, for the most part.  And the NESCAC schools attract many of their best athletes in sports that happen to coincide with a lot of high academic achieving kids (in particular, private school kids): tennis, cross country, track and field, swimming and diving, field hockey, lacrosse, etc.  So yes, the NESCAC schools, in the aggregate, have a huge athletic emphasis because of the diffusion of athletes across so many competitive programs, but do they have a bigger emphasis than other schools for any PARTICULAR team?  I'd say no. 

[Brother Flounder]

One of the main reasons NESCAC schools seem to have more of an athletic presence / jock reputation / perform well in the Director's Cup is not so much the accommodations for athletes, which I guarantee are not anything special or unique (and if anything, the opposite is true), but rather just how MANY sports NESCAC schools have.  Look at Williams for example: a big chunk of the Ephs' directors cup points every year come from sports like women's crew, men's and women's golf, skiiing, and wrestling that few D3 college even offer.  If there is a D3 sport with a national tournament, the majority of NESCAC schools will field a team in that sport, for the most part.  And the NESCAC schools attract many of their best athletes in sports that happen to coincide with a lot of high academic achieving kids (in particular, private school kids): tennis, cross country, track and field, swimming and diving, field hockey, lacrosse, etc.  So yes, the NESCAC schools, in the aggregate, have a huge athletic emphasis because of the diffusion of athletes across so many competitive programs, but do they have a bigger emphasis than other schools for any PARTICULAR team?  I'd say no.

I agree with this.  The demand is there due to the academic quality of the schools throughout the whole entire conference. I know of a few players who turned down D1 offers to play D3 soccer, especially since D1 scholarships for men's soccer basically suck and are not given to all players.  Some were even offers at Ivy League schools, which also don't give athletic scholarships.  Would you choose to play at a Williams, Amherst, Tufts, Bowdoin, and the like, and start all 4 years or choose another institution of lesser academic quality in which you may not play until you were a junior or senior?  If you pick the school for its academics over its soccer team, which most logical people should, this would not be surprising.   I believe Tufts just won the lacrosse and women's softball national title's this past year.  Most of the NESCAC schools really don't drop their academic guidelines that much for athletes so I don't agree with your premise as to why these teams are successful in the Directors Cup....

[PaulNewman]

BF, did I offer a premise as to why they do well in the Director's Cup?

It goes without saying that the NESCAC schools are very attractive and highly desirable (although what some NESCAC folks have more trouble acknowledging is that some actually prefer non-NESCAC attractive/desirable schools and partly because they are a little less pretentious).

As to NESCAC1's point, I think that makes the overall point rather well.  The fact that these schools offer and support so many different sports adds to the view that these are schools where athletics are highly valued.  That doesn't mean they skimp on academics or cut athletes breaks, but there are a lot of schools that don't cut athletes breaks.  We also wouldn't see coaches getting replaced at Bates and Colby if soccer wasn't considered important (along with other sports).  I think there have been some studies done about the percentages of varsity athletes at these schools versus their non-NESCAC competitors.  There are some who think athletics are too highly valued at the NESCACs.  I'm just highlighting another view to balance the suggestion that the NESCACs are under some kind of burden in tournament play that other schools don't share.

[Brother Flounder]

BF, did I offer a premise as to why they do well in the Director's Cup?

It goes without saying that the NESCAC schools are very attractive and highly desirable (although what some NESCAC folks have more trouble acknowledging is that some actually prefer non-NESCAC attractive/desirable schools and partly because they are a little less pretentious).

As to NESCAC1's point, I think that makes the overall point rather well.  The fact that these schools offer and support so many different sports adds to the view that these are schools where athletics are highly valued.  That doesn't mean they skimp on academics or cut athletes breaks, but there are a lot of schools that don't cut athletes breaks.  We also wouldn't see coaches getting replaced at Bates and Colby if soccer wasn't considered important (along with other sports).  I think there have been some studies done about the percentages of varsity athletes at these schools versus their non-NESCAC competitors.  There are some who think athletics are too highly valued at the NESCACs.  I'm just highlighting another view to balance the suggestion that the NESCACs are under some kind of burden in tournament play that other schools don't share.

I agree with your last sentence in that I am not taking the position that the academic burden should be an excuse.....Also, it would be interesting to see the average ACT or SAT scores of athletes in each conference....

[PaulNewman]

BF, no contest on SAT scores.  NESCAC and UAA far and away have the highest average scores.  Other conferences like the Centennial (on par at the top end) are weighted down by some less elite schools.  And as NESCAC1 suggested, in some ways this helps the NESCAC as the NESCAC schools do attract very good athletes who are high academic achievers and especially on the East Coast soccer is a sport that jives very nicely with that demographic.

FWIW, my favorite NESCACs are Colby and Wesleyan.  And I personally would prefer Midd or Bowdoin to Williams or Amherst.