NESCAC

[Corazon]

I enjoyed reading your post, Ishamel. Good to see views of a poster from So Cal.

[Corazon]

Interesting article on the topic:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/08/25/youth-soccer-players-face-tough-choices-with-academy-system/iktagUJXCTKxITaiDl9VwM/story.html

Very interesting and I agree with most points. If you are one of the top players with good college potential, I think, generally, USSDA, is the best way to go....given the training, traveling and commitment involved...prepares you better for college soccer....

There are some parts of the college soccer experience that HS soccer prepares you for better then USSDA...

1) PRE-SEASON CAMP - two weeks of double or triple sessions (no such thing is USSDA)
2) FITNESS TESTS - timed runs, etc. (doesn't exist in many USSDA programs)
3) TRAINING EVERYDAY IN SEASON - HS does this (USSDA doesn't get close)
4) PLAYING 2-3 TIMES PER WEEK - regular occurrence in HS and in college, not in USSDA
5) JUGGLING ACADEMICS AND SOCCER EVERYDAY - HS yes, USSDA no
6) CAMARADERIE - in HS play with your same class or four years, USSDA rosters change every year and frequently within the season - guys play for their scholarships as much or more than they play for their teams
7) PRIDE - play for your school and your community - no such thing in USSDA: players come from all over, mostly just parents attend games
8) MEDIA ATTENTION - learn to handle extensive local media coverage for HS soccer, no local media coverage of  USSDA teams

These are just the areas that come to mind.  I'm sure I'm missing some.  Please chime in.

My views on D3SoccerWatcher's 8 points between HS and Academy

HS is Better:
  6 - Camarederie
  7 - Pride
  8 - Media Attention

SAME
  1 - Pre-season Camp (USSDAs have this)
  2 - Fitness Tests (USSDAs have this)
  5 - Juggling Academics

Academy is Better
  3 - Training every day in season - USSDA trains 4x week, allowing rest and recovery
  4 - Playing 2 -3x week - USSDA plays once per week, and occasionally 2x week

[Brother Flounder]

I would agree with Corazon's analysis here.  It should also be noted regarding juggling academics is that the driving time to and from practice for USSDA takes up a lot of time, and many games are out of town......

[Nutmeg]

I would agree with Corazon's analysis here.  It should also be noted regarding juggling academics is that the driving time to and from practice for USSDA takes up a lot of time, and many games are out of town......

I would also agree that juggling academics may be a little harder for USSDA players given the sometimes long drives to practice and out of town weekend games....

[Nutmeg]

For what it's worth, I went to the Tufts website to see how many played for USSDA teams but for some reason they don't have individual biographies for the players. So, I googled a few names of players not mentioned already and saw that Connor Schaible played for Bsltimore Bays Chelsea and Jason Kayne played for the Chicago USSDA team SOCKERS FC. I seem to recall that is the club Michael Bradley played for....

[D3soccerwatcher]

Interesting article on the topic:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/08/25/youth-soccer-players-face-tough-choices-with-academy-system/iktagUJXCTKxITaiDl9VwM/story.html

Very interesting and I agree with most points. If you are one of the top players with good college potential, I think, generally, USSDA, is the best way to go....given the training, traveling and commitment involved...prepares you better for college soccer....

There are some parts of the college soccer experience that HS soccer prepares you for better then USSDA...

1) PRE-SEASON CAMP - two weeks of double or triple sessions (no such thing is USSDA)
2) FITNESS TESTS - timed runs, etc. (doesn't exist in many USSDA programs)
3) TRAINING EVERYDAY IN SEASON - HS does this (USSDA doesn't get close)
4) PLAYING 2-3 TIMES PER WEEK - regular occurrence in HS and in college, not in USSDA
5) JUGGLING ACADEMICS AND SOCCER EVERYDAY - HS yes, USSDA no
6) CAMARADERIE - in HS play with your same class or four years, USSDA rosters change every year and frequently within the season - guys play for their scholarships as much or more than they play for their teams
7) PRIDE - play for your school and your community - no such thing in USSDA: players come from all over, mostly just parents attend games
8) MEDIA ATTENTION - learn to handle extensive local media coverage for HS soccer, no local media coverage of  USSDA teams

These are just the areas that come to mind.  I'm sure I'm missing some.  Please chime in.

My views on D3SoccerWatcher's 8 points between HS and Academy

HS is Better:
  6 - Camarederie
  7 - Pride
  8 - Media Attention

SAME
  1 - Pre-season Camp (USSDAs have this)
  2 - Fitness Tests (USSDAs have this)
  5 - Juggling Academics

Academy is Better
  3 - Training every day in season - USSDA trains 4x week, allowing rest and recovery
  4 - Playing 2 -3x week - USSDA plays once per week, and occasionally 2x week

My point wasn't so much which is better in the absolute, but rather which experience is a better emulation of the college soccer experience...

PRE-SEASON CAMP - I don't think there is a U-16 or U-18 USSDA club in the country that does double or triple sessions for two weeks straight like they do in HS and college.  So HS is more like college on this factor.
TRAINING EVERYDAY IN SEASON - you train everyday in season in HS and college (with the possible exception of some Sundays) - as you point out the USSDA does not do that.  Therefore HS is much more like college in this regard.
JUGGLING ACADEMICS - In season, HS has got to be harder - training and playing everyday and traveling for away games sometimes multiple times per week.  However, over the course of the entire year,  USSDA does have a longer season...so perhaps a toss up on this one.
PLAYING GAMES 2-3 TIMES PER WEEK - HS and College do this frequently.  USSDA not much at all.  HS is a much better representation of college in this regard.
FITNESS TESTS - I know many HS and college programs are on the track testing fitness as players begin camp.  I don't think most USSDA clubs do this, if they even have access to track and field facilities.

[D3soccerwatcher]

I enjoyed reading your post, Ishamel. Good to see views of a poster from So Cal.

Agree.  Great post and happy to hear a west coast perspective.  Welcome and I hope you will continue to post throughout the 2015 campaign.

[D3soccerwatcher]

One last point (hopefully) on the USSDA.  In all sports in which the US is dominant player in the world (football, basketball, baseball, swimming, track & field, etc. and WOMEN'S SOCCER) virtually all roads to the professional ranks and world class status include playing high school as an important part of player growth and development.  But not men's soccer...in their infinite wisdom US Soccer, decided almost 10 years ago to start a program that excludes HS soccer in hopes of gaining world class status.  Oh yeah...that's right...but the US is not a dominant player in world soccer, inclusion of a sub-par professional league (MLS).  Bucking the model that works in every other sport in the US, including WOMEN'S SOCCER...which has done way better on the world scene then men's soccer ever has.  But it simply is not working.  In fact, many of the core players on our national team didn't even really learn their soccer in the US...instead learning in places like Germany and Iceland, but getting on the US team via dual citizenship.  Youth soccer in the US is a broken system, where we have become so enamored by what "works" in other parts of the world, we have ignored the proven model that we already have that has produced world class status in most major sports.

[Corazon]

One last point (hopefully) on the USSDA.  In all sports in which the US is dominant player in the world (football, basketball, baseball, swimming, track & field, etc. and WOMEN'S SOCCER) virtually all roads to the professional ranks and world class status include playing high school as an important part of player growth and development.  But not men's soccer...in their infinite wisdom US Soccer, decided almost 10 years ago to start a program that excludes HS soccer in hopes of gaining world class status.  Oh yeah...that's right...but the US is not a dominant player in world soccer, inclusion of a sub-par professional league (MLS).  Bucking the model that works in every other sport in the US, including WOMEN'S SOCCER...which has done way better on the world scene then men's soccer ever has.  But it simply is not working.  In fact, many of the core players on our national team didn't even really learn their soccer in the US...instead learning in places like Germany and Iceland, but getting on the US team via dual citizenship.  Youth soccer in the US is a broken system, where we have become so enamored by what "works" in other parts of the world, we have ignored the proven model that we already have that has produced world class status in most major sports.

Agree with you here. The no HS rule makes sense for maybe 5% of the kids playing USSDA. For the other 95%, it robs them of an invaluable experience that many kids cherish for the rest of their lives.

[Nutmeg]

One last point (hopefully) on the USSDA.  In all sports in which the US is dominant player in the world (football, basketball, baseball, swimming, track & field, etc. and WOMEN'S SOCCER) virtually all roads to the professional ranks and world class status include playing high school as an important part of player growth and development.  But not men's soccer...in their infinite wisdom US Soccer, decided almost 10 years ago to start a program that excludes HS soccer in hopes of gaining world class status.  Oh yeah...that's right...but the US is not a dominant player in world soccer, inclusion of a sub-par professional league (MLS).  Bucking the model that works in every other sport in the US, including WOMEN'S SOCCER...which has done way better on the world scene then men's soccer ever has.  But it simply is not working.  In fact, many of the core players on our national team didn't even really learn their soccer in the US...instead learning in places like Germany and Iceland, but getting on the US team via dual citizenship.  Youth soccer in the US is a broken system, where we have become so enamored by what "works" in other parts of the world, we have ignored the proven model that we already have that has produced world class status in most major sports.

Agree with you here. The no HS rule makes sense for maybe 5% of the kids playing USSDA. For the other 95%, it robs them of an invaluable experience that many kids cherish for the rest of their lives.

I also agree....

[Off Pitch]

http://www.tulsaroughnecksfc.com/latest-news/jimenez-and-brewster-are-first-official-player-signings

Ben Brewster (Bowdoin) signed by Tulsa USL team.

[Nutmeg]

http://www.tulsaroughnecksfc.com/latest-news/jimenez-and-brewster-are-first-official-player-signings

Ben Brewster (Bowdoin) signed by Tulsa USL team.

Congrats!

[D3soccerwatcher]

I was surprised to see how few fans attend NESCAC soccer games.  Any insights?

NCAA 2014 DIII Soccer Attendance

Rank   Institution   Conference   Accum Attendance   Avg Attendance
1   Messiah   Commonwealth   20,765   1,730
2   Ohio Wesleyan   North Coast   10,652   888
3   Wheaton (IL)   CCIW   11,382   876
4   Hope   Michigan Intercol.   8,107   737
5   Chris. Newport   CAC   9,130   702
6   Roanoke   ODAC   6,177   562
7   North Park   CCIW   4,455   495
8   Hampden-Sydney   ODAC   3,953   494
9   Mary Washington   CAC   4,788   479
10   St. Lawrence   Liberty League   5,251   477
11   Brockport   SUNYAC   4,200   467
12   Wartburg   IIAC   4,907   446
13   Loras   IIAC   5,783   445
14   Va. Wesleyan   ODAC   3,498   437
15   York (PA)   CAC   3,775   419
16   Geneva   Presidents' AC   4,122   412
17   Texas-Dallas   American Southwest   4,083   408
18   Frank. & Marsh.   Centennial   4,883   407
19   Husson   North Atlantic   4,390   399
20   Randolph   ODAC   3,117   390
21   Cal Lutheran   SCIAC   4,159   378
22   Stevens   Empire 8   3,764   376
23   Franklin   HCAC   3,320   369
24   Covenant   USA South   4,033   367
25   SUNY Oneonta   SUNYAC   5,188   346
26   Knox   Midwest Conference   3,448   345
27   Montclair St.   NJAC   3,692   336
28   Mary Hardin-Baylor   American Southwest   2,675   334
29   Calvin   Michigan Intercol.   3,585   326
30   Connecticut Col.   NESCAC   2,600   325
31   Lycoming   Commonwealth   3,186   319
32   Lynchburg   ODAC   3,438   313
33   Coe   IIAC   2,462   308
34   East. Mennonite   ODAC   2,997   300
35   UMass Boston   Little East   2,306   288
36   Tufts   NESCAC   2,550   283
37   Carleton   Minn. Intercol.   2,536   282
38   Whittier   SCIAC   2,497   277
39   Rochester (NY)   UAA   2,474   275
40   Babson   NEWMAC   3,545   273
41   John Carroll   Ohio AC   2,702   270
42   Gordon   CCC   3,222   269
43   Houghton   Empire 8   2,150   269
44   McMurry   American Southwest   1,065   266
45   Centre   SAA   2,115   264
46   Bowdoin   NESCAC   2,108   264
47   DePauw   North Coast   1,849   264
48   New England Col.   North Atlantic   2,600   260
49   MSOE   Northern Athletics   2,847   259
50   Brandeis   UAA   2,590   259
51   Trinity (TX)   SCAC   2,820   256
52   WPI   NEWMAC   2,050   256
53   Concordia-M'head   Minn. Intercol.   1,788   255
54   Johns Hopkins   Centennial   1,531   255
55   Amherst   NESCAC   2,278   253
56   Coast Guard   NEWMAC   2,260   251
57   Sewanee   SAA   1,942   243
58   Susquehanna   Landmark   1,678   240
59   Dubuque   IIAC   1,911   239
60   Whitworth   Northwest   1,910   239
61   Elizabethtown   Landmark   1,908   239
62   Denison   North Coast   1,675   239
63   Otterbein   Ohio AC   1,436   239
64   Benedictine (IL)   Northern Athletics   2,145   238
65   Millikin   CCIW   1,900   238
66   Eastern   Freedom   2,356   236
67   Kenyon   North Coast   2,556   232
68   Centenary (LA)   SCAC   2,315   232
69   Dallas   SCAC   2,296   230
70   Albertus Magnus   Great Northeast   2,500   227
71   Occidental   SCIAC   2,036   226
72   Rhode Island Col.   Little East   1,794   224
73   Lancaster Bible   NEAC   1,994   222
74   Wentworth   CCC   1,990   221
75   SUNY Poly   NEAC   2,197   220
76   Elms   NECC   2,195   220
77   Middlebury   NESCAC   1,533   219
78   Augustana (IL)   CCIW   1,316   219
79   Salisbury   CAC   2,400   218
80   Linfield   Northwest   2,155   216

[frank uible]

NESCAC emphasizes participation in all things over spectating.

[1970s NESCAC Player]

NESCAC emphasizes participation in all things over spectating.

Agree with Frank.  Also D3SW, these attendance stats for NESCAC are guestimates and unreliable at best.  There are no stadiums in NESCAC, so spectators mostly stand around the pitch.  The attendance is the scorekeeper's estimate, and could be off significantly.  Further, for weekend NESCAC games (i.e., Saturdays), all of one school's varsity athletic teams for the fall season play the other school's teams, so multiple games are taking place simultaneously.  There could be a football game, field hockey match, and two soccer games all taking place within a short distance of each other.  Fans frequently circulate among the games, and end up watching the most exciting one.  There might be 150 fans at men's soccer in the first half, but 500 at the end of an exciting match.