NESCAC

[Mr.Right]

I would have to agree with most of this Bloots....Keene St from 2000-2008 were one of New England's better teams from the LEC but that would be the exception and even Keene St would struggle in the NCAA's but were always a dangerous side especially at Home because of their field and rowdy fans.

[Saint of Old]

While I may not be the biggest NESCAC fan on these boards, history is history, and some of the NESCAC teams have certainly made deep runs into the tournament, including a few NESCAC national champs over the decades.   My question to the New England experts is this...Is NESCAC the only legit D3 soccer conf in New England?  I rarely hear anyone talking about the CCC and can't ever recall anyone even mentioning the MASCAC.

I'll take a swing at this. While I'm by no means an expert, I'm always down to offer my thoughts on New England teams.

The NEWMAC is not in the same echelon as the NESCAC in terms of year-in, year-out consistency. That said, it is definitely respectable, and I would say "legit" if not in the "powerhouse" category. I'd say that, any given year, the best team in the NEWMAC will be around the level of perhaps the #3-#5 team in the NESCAC, and, in some years, maybe even higher (Babson's 10-11 and 11-12 teams come to mind).

That said, such is not the case most years (in my observation). Case in point: I think we can all agree that, last season, Amherst and MIT were the best teams in the NESCAC and NEWMAC based on their body of work — even if neither won the conference. And while Bowdoin did win the NESCAC, they were ranked #6 in the conference regular season rankings, and MIT, barely eked by them at home in OT. Now, obviously, there are numerous factors that go into games like that, and we say "any given day" for a reason, but the fact that it took until the 99th minute for a goal to come illustrates the parity between the two teams, I think.

Another thing is that the NEWMAC conference tournament has a tendency to produce upsets, which results in a team that has done virtually nothing all year going to NCAAs. In fact, no team ranked #1 in the conference during the regular season has won the NEWMAC since Babson in 2010. The other years: 2011 Springfield (9-4-3 regular season) beat Babson. 2012 MIT (11-4-1) beat Babson. 2013 Wheaton (14-5) beat MIT. 2014 Babson (14-5) beat Wheaton. 2015 Babson (11-6-2) beat MIT.

Certainly, the NESCAC tournament has produced similar upsets: however, the difference is that when the NESCAC champ gets to NCAAs via an upset, it stays in until at least the 2nd Round: in fact, Bowdoin in the last two years has been the only NESCAC champ in the last 10 years who has been knocked out before the Sweet 16 (losing to Brandeis and MIT). The NEWMAC, meanwhile, has not had the same success. In fact, four out of the five champions listed (Springfield, MIT, and Babson x2) has been knocked out in the 1st Round, and the one that didn't (Wheaton) was beaten 8-0 by St. Lawrence in the 2nd Round. Last year, Babson didn't get beaten that badly by F&M, losing 5-1, but they didn't get out of the 1st Round and they also lost 7-2 to Williams at home. Bottom line: the NESCAC schools, even those who have produced upsets en route to a conference title, are ready when NCAAs come around. The NEWMACs, meanwhile, are not (at least not to the same degree).

Last year, MIT had one of the best sides in NEWMAC history, making it to the 3rd Round of NCAAs, but I don't think that they were battle-tested enough in their regular season (as evidenced by their poor SOS). And while you can't ignore that they did defeat a NESCAC school, I'd say they would have been "middle of the pack" in the NESCAC.

Is the NEWMAC "legit"? In my book, yes. Is it the 2nd best conference in New England? I would say so. Is it on the same level as the NESCAC? Absolutely not.

The CCC, meanwhile, will produce a quality NCAA participant every few years. Western New England had a few years where they were pretty strong under Erin Sullivan, and only a 3-2 loss to St. Lawrence in the 2011 NCAA 2nd Round kept them from getting to the Sweet 16. However, most years they are represented by the conference winner only, who promptly gets knocked out in the NCAA 1st Round. Gordon and Roger Williams have been exceptions to this in recent years, but both have been unceremoniously dumped out in the 2nd Round, and I can say with 99% certainty that no CCC school has made it to the 3rd Round of the NCAAs (I saw the Roger Williams 2013 hype video in which the locker room speech inferred that this was the case). Certainly, CCC schools spring surprising results from time to time against the NESCACs/NEWMAC/UAA (Gordon beating Carnegie Mellon last year, Roger Williams downing Wheaton and Babson in 2013, and Western New England beating Wesleyan in 2010, 2013, and 2014,) but such wins are the exception rather than the norm, and is symptomatic of the CCC's inconsistency in terms of producing "legit" NCAA participants.

Each of the GNAC, LEC, MASCAC, and NAC may produce a "legit" team every five or so years. However, most years the conference winner is dumped out in the 1st Round of NCAAs. They're the type of teams that will "sit in" against the big teams, and while it will ultimately work for the majority of the game, the favorite usually finds a way.

I was at that SLU v. WNEC game in 2011.
Both teams played extremely hard and showed a lot of will.
That is still one of the best college games I ever attended, and SLU ran out of there with the win.
Could have gone either way.

I actually thought that the WNEC program had arrived and would go on to some great things after watching that game.
They had some great players and played total football as well.

[D3soccerwatcher]

While I may not be the biggest NESCAC fan on these boards, history is history, and some of the NESCAC teams have certainly made deep runs into the tournament, including a few NESCAC national champs over the decades.   My question to the New England experts is this...Is NESCAC the only legit D3 soccer conf in New England?  I rarely hear anyone talking about the CCC and can't ever recall anyone even mentioning the MASCAC.

I'll take a swing at this. While I'm by no means an expert, I'm always down to offer my thoughts on New England teams.

The NEWMAC is not in the same echelon as the NESCAC in terms of year-in, year-out consistency. That said, it is definitely respectable, and I would say "legit" if not in the "powerhouse" category. I'd say that, any given year, the best team in the NEWMAC will be around the level of perhaps the #3-#5 team in the NESCAC, and, in some years, maybe even higher (Babson's 10-11 and 11-12 teams come to mind).

That said, such is not the case most years (in my observation). Case in point: I think we can all agree that, last season, Amherst and MIT were the best teams in the NESCAC and NEWMAC based on their body of work — even if neither won the conference. And while Bowdoin did win the NESCAC, they were ranked #6 in the conference regular season rankings, and MIT, barely eked by them at home in OT. Now, obviously, there are numerous factors that go into games like that, and we say "any given day" for a reason, but the fact that it took until the 99th minute for a goal to come illustrates the parity between the two teams, I think.

Another thing is that the NEWMAC conference tournament has a tendency to produce upsets, which results in a team that has done virtually nothing all year going to NCAAs. In fact, no team ranked #1 in the conference during the regular season has won the NEWMAC since Babson in 2010. The other years: 2011 Springfield (9-4-3 regular season) beat Babson. 2012 MIT (11-4-1) beat Babson. 2013 Wheaton (14-5) beat MIT. 2014 Babson (14-5) beat Wheaton. 2015 Babson (11-6-2) beat MIT.

Certainly, the NESCAC tournament has produced similar upsets: however, the difference is that when the NESCAC champ gets to NCAAs via an upset, it stays in until at least the 2nd Round: in fact, Bowdoin in the last two years has been the only NESCAC champ in the last 10 years who has been knocked out before the Sweet 16 (losing to Brandeis and MIT). The NEWMAC, meanwhile, has not had the same success. In fact, four out of the five champions listed (Springfield, MIT, and Babson x2) has been knocked out in the 1st Round, and the one that didn't (Wheaton) was beaten 8-0 by St. Lawrence in the 2nd Round. Last year, Babson didn't get beaten that badly by F&M, losing 5-1, but they didn't get out of the 1st Round and they also lost 7-2 to Williams at home. Bottom line: the NESCAC schools, even those who have produced upsets en route to a conference title, are ready when NCAAs come around. The NEWMACs, meanwhile, are not (at least not to the same degree).

Last year, MIT had one of the best sides in NEWMAC history, making it to the 3rd Round of NCAAs, but I don't think that they were battle-tested enough in their regular season (as evidenced by their poor SOS). And while you can't ignore that they did defeat a NESCAC school, I'd say they would have been "middle of the pack" in the NESCAC.

Is the NEWMAC "legit"? In my book, yes. Is it the 2nd best conference in New England? I would say so. Is it on the same level as the NESCAC? Absolutely not.

The CCC, meanwhile, will produce a quality NCAA participant every few years. Western New England had a few years where they were pretty strong under Erin Sullivan, and only a 3-2 loss to St. Lawrence in the 2011 NCAA 2nd Round kept them from getting to the Sweet 16. However, most years they are represented by the conference winner only, who promptly gets knocked out in the NCAA 1st Round. Gordon and Roger Williams have been exceptions to this in recent years, but both have been unceremoniously dumped out in the 2nd Round, and I can say with 99% certainty that no CCC school has made it to the 3rd Round of the NCAAs (I saw the Roger Williams 2013 hype video in which the locker room speech inferred that this was the case). Certainly, CCC schools spring surprising results from time to time against the NESCACs/NEWMAC/UAA (Gordon beating Carnegie Mellon last year, Roger Williams downing Wheaton and Babson in 2013, and Western New England beating Wesleyan in 2010, 2013, and 2014,) but such wins are the exception rather than the norm, and is symptomatic of the CCC's inconsistency in terms of producing "legit" NCAA participants.

Each of the GNAC, LEC, MASCAC, and NAC may produce a "legit" team every five or so years. However, most years the conference winner is dumped out in the 1st Round of NCAAs. They're the type of teams that will "sit in" against the big teams, and while it will ultimately work for the majority of the game, the favorite usually finds a way.

Blooter,
Great commentary and insight. Thank you!!!

[Brother Flounder]

Nice Analysis Bloots!

[letsGOswans!]

It's getting close to that time of year again. Post your standing predictions. Made these predictions based on watching the league the past few years. No one knows all of the recruits coming in for each team so these are just educated guesses

1. Amherst - Whole team minus Bull, NPL, and Singer are returning. That defense and midfield is MEAN. For pete sakes look at the names! Bean, Lehnhart, Aoyoma, and Sood, coupled with Ciambella, Orozco, and Nguyen (a real special player), make the most physical and athletic defense and midfield in the league. I can't see them not winning this thing. I just can't see them accepting anything besides first place. I have never seen a team with such a desire to win. Heck, they have to be favorites for the national championship as well. Knowing Serpone, I'd bet my money their incoming keeper has a monster kick like Bull. Couple that with those gigantic throw ins this team is guaranteed to score goals. Yes there may be less special goals like those that singer and NPL scored, but I'm sure others like Martin will pick up that burden.
2. Tufts - I have always been an admirer of Shapiro's Tufts. Their style is easy on the eye, but they can also get stuck in when needed. Losing Kayne, the underrated Pinheiro (happy he finally got some recognition last year, not many people start for 4 years at this level) and Brown (who never got the recognition he deserved), and solid defenders in Schaible and Patel. But they have players ready to step up. The older Halliday has always impressed me and we all know how good Majumder is. Lets see what the latter will do this year as the league won't make the same mistake and underestimate him again. They lack a WOW player like Santos, but they are the definition of a TEAM.
3. Middlebury - Losing Robinson. They'll definitely have a chip on their shoulder from missing the playoffs last year. I still just can't see them finishing higher than third. In order to do so they would have to beat Amherst at Amherst's own game, which is not happening, or consistently outplay Tufts. Middlebury has skilled players but they need to start using them more rather than just playing kick and run to Glaser and Conrad. Keep your eye out for O'Grady. The kid is special.
4.  Bowdoin - They did lose good players in Odulate, Miller, and the underrated Solarte and Jones, but they are just such a well coached team you can never count them out. When I think of their roster next year there are no names that excite me.  When it comes time for playoff season they are just so tough to beat. If there is one thing I learned over the year it is to NEVER count Bowdoin out. If you give up a goal to this team they will buckle in and you will not score. I like Niang's athleticism and am still waiting to see if Ward's hype is deserved.
5. Williams - I just can't see them finishing above 5th after losing Rashid and Danilack. Yes, they have some promising young players and some talented returning players, but I still have not seen the latter players step up to the occasion. I hope no one is offended, but in my opinion these past few Williams teams have been "soft." Maybe it's just because when I think of Williams I think of the 2011 and 2012 teams. Those were some big boys. I was tempted to put them lower but this is Williams.
6. Wesleyan - Losing some solid players in Sousa, Kafina, Jones, and Erikson. Returning Cowie-Haskell, Gruner, and Paiz, who I think could be the best offensive player in the league this year.  Don't know too much about their defense though so this is a bit of a wildcard pick
7. Conn - They lost some experienced players in the underrated Patch, Gikandi, and Bitchell. They are going to have a young and inexperienced team. One thing they do have is Devlin who IMO is HANDS DOWN the best player in the league. Their fairytale season last year was a joy for all impartials. It would be great to see them do something similar, but I just can't see it happening. Lets see if Leon and Lockwood (who reminds me of Hawkey) get sophomore syndrome.
8. Trinity - Can't really think of anyone important that they are losing. Such an erratic team. One day they can be the best team in the league, and a few days later they can look horrible. Nevertheless, I can't wait to see how Savonen and O'Neil do their senior year.
9-11 - Colby, Bates, Hamilton - These last few spots are separated by so few points that anyone can finish anywhere. Heck with enough luck one of these teams could finish in the top 8. These teams are bottomdwellers that just stay there. I just can't see this changing.

[nescac1]

Is Rashid definitely gone from Williams?  I know he had another year of eligibility ... if he is not around I agree that scoring could be tough this year, if he is, they return pretty much their entire offense and should be more dynamic up front.  It will be interesting to see what Erin Sullivan's first recruiting class is like, hopefully a few guys who can help right away. 

[blooter442]

Great stuff Swans. I think Bates could surprise as they have some solid young talent but I also think they were exposed last year over the course of the season. Agree with the #s top to bottom, though, and good analysis. Well done.

[Mr.Right]

Is Rashid definitely gone from Williams?  I know he had another year of eligibility ... if he is not around I agree that scoring could be tough this year, if he is, they return pretty much their entire offense and should be more dynamic up front.  It will be interesting to see what Erin Sullivan's first recruiting class is like, hopefully a few guys who can help right away.

Rashid will be back for 1 more year at Williams this fall which is great news. However, Russo's last great recruit Harrison Fyke will not be back which is not good news. He showed some flashes as a Frosh last year and will only get better. Last year was one of the most disappointing seasons Williams has had in 40 years. They had no leadership, no toughness and they lose their best player in Danilack. If you look at their schedule it is interesting to say the least. They open with 6 straight home games. They start the season with 8 games in 15 days. That is just plain ridiculous even in a usually condensed Nescac schedule. Their first 6 games are all very winnable and they could start 6-0-0 if they play well. However, 4 of the games will be against teams that will play 10 deep in Williamstown and Williams is hoing to have to break them down which will be difficult. ECONN, Colby, Babson and RPI will all sit in for the most part. Even Endicott will be sitting. Tarinity will play them straight up but in my humble opinion Trinity is due for a good season. They lose almost nothing from last year and will be a tough out as long as Pilger can keep them focused for every game which he usually struggles with.

[Mr.Right]

It's getting close to that time of year again. Post your standing predictions. Made these predictions based on watching the league the past few years. No one knows all of the recruits coming in for each team so these are just educated guesses

1. Amherst - Whole team minus Bull, NPL, and Singer are returning. That defense and midfield is MEAN. For pete sakes look at the names! Bean, Lehnhart, Aoyoma, and Sood, coupled with Ciambella, Orozco, and Nguyen (a real special player), make the most physical and athletic defense and midfield in the league. I can't see them not winning this thing. I just can't see them accepting anything besides first place. I have never seen a team with such a desire to win. Heck, they have to be favorites for the national championship as well. Knowing Serpone, I'd bet my money their incoming keeper has a monster kick like Bull. Couple that with those gigantic throw ins this team is guaranteed to score goals. Yes there may be less special goals like those that singer and NPL scored, but I'm sure others like Martin will pick up that burden.
2. Tufts - I have always been an admirer of Shapiro's Tufts. Their style is easy on the eye, but they can also get stuck in when needed. Losing Kayne, the underrated Pinheiro (happy he finally got some recognition last year, not many people start for 4 years at this level) and Brown (who never got the recognition he deserved), and solid defenders in Schaible and Patel. But they have players ready to step up. The older Halliday has always impressed me and we all know how good Majumder is. Lets see what the latter will do this year as the league won't make the same mistake and underestimate him again. They lack a WOW player like Santos, but they are the definition of a TEAM.
3. Middlebury - Losing Robinson. They'll definitely have a chip on their shoulder from missing the playoffs last year. I still just can't see them finishing higher than third. In order to do so they would have to beat Amherst at Amherst's own game, which is not happening, or consistently outplay Tufts. Middlebury has skilled players but they need to start using them more rather than just playing kick and run to Glaser and Conrad. Keep your eye out for O'Grady. The kid is special.
4.  Bowdoin - They did lose good players in Odulate, Miller, and the underrated Solarte and Jones, but they are just such a well coached team you can never count them out. When I think of their roster next year there are no names that excite me.  When it comes time for playoff season they are just so tough to beat. If there is one thing I learned over the year it is to NEVER count Bowdoin out. If you give up a goal to this team they will buckle in and you will not score. I like Niang's athleticism and am still waiting to see if Ward's hype is deserved.
5. Williams - I just can't see them finishing above 5th after losing Rashid and Danilack. Yes, they have some promising young players and some talented returning players, but I still have not seen the latter players step up to the occasion. I hope no one is offended, but in my opinion these past few Williams teams have been "soft." Maybe it's just because when I think of Williams I think of the 2011 and 2012 teams. Those were some big boys. I was tempted to put them lower but this is Williams.
6. Wesleyan - Losing some solid players in Sousa, Kafina, Jones, and Erikson. Returning Cowie-Haskell, Gruner, and Paiz, who I think could be the best offensive player in the league this year.  Don't know too much about their defense though so this is a bit of a wildcard pick
7. Conn - They lost some experienced players in the underrated Patch, Gikandi, and Bitchell. They are going to have a young and inexperienced team. One thing they do have is Devlin who IMO is HANDS DOWN the best player in the league. Their fairytale season last year was a joy for all impartials. It would be great to see them do something similar, but I just can't see it happening. Lets see if Leon and Lockwood (who reminds me of Hawkey) get sophomore syndrome.
8. Trinity - Can't really think of anyone important that they are losing. Such an erratic team. One day they can be the best team in the league, and a few days later they can look horrible. Nevertheless, I can't wait to see how Savonen and O'Neil do their senior year.
9-11 - Colby, Bates, Hamilton - These last few spots are separated by so few points that anyone can finish anywhere. Heck with enough luck one of these teams could finish in the top 8. These teams are bottomdwellers that just stay there. I just can't see this changing.

Good work SWANS. I would have to agree with most of this. I am going with this:


1. Midd
2. Amherst
3. Tufts
4. Williams
5. Bowdoin
6. Conn
7. Trinity
8. Wesleyan
9. Bates
10. Colby
11. Hamilton



Amherst will reload but they are losing WAY TO MUCH to win this league. Midd has the most talent and have the best spine to win this thing. The have a lot to prove and will be very motivated. Tufts will not be as strong and will need to rely on Frosh and Soph to get 3rd. Williams still has no leadership and toughness but have skill and speed to win games. Bowdoin loses some key talent but with the best GK in the league they will be a tough out. If Conn had a serious GK I would place them 3rd or 4th but they don't as of yet. DaCahuna is a nightmare in net. Trinity has a lot of talent but also has weak GK'ing and like you said we never know which Trinity team will show up. Wesleyan loses the most and will struggle this year in the back. Bates showed some flashes for the first time in 5 years so they ill be hard to beat especially in Lewiston and Colby and Hamilton are just a bit to young still to compete week in and week out.

[nescac1]

Thanks for the update on Rashid, Mr. Right.  That is indeed good news for Williams.  Too bad about Fyke, but hopefully Sullivan has some good frosh in who can help right away in his first class.  With Rashid at 100 percent, Tolomeo, Moutenot, Young in attacking midfield and up front, with occasional help from the Dory brothers, Williams should have a lot more experienced firepower this year and I imagine will score substantially more goals than last year's anemic attack, should be able to get back up to average over 2 per game. Rashid alone creates a lot of problems and Moutenot has tremendous skill set if he can compete physically, and Tolomeo proved he can be a target striker. 

They also have a ton of experience at goalie.  Agree that losing Danilak is tough and need more disciplined and tough play defensively in midfield and back. Need to do a better job winning in the middle of the field and avoiding mistaked in back.  Andreu and Muellers are a very good starting point there, hopefully a newcomer or two can step up right away and contribute.  If the Ephs can make it back to the NCAAs that would be a very succesful year.  Being in the second year under Sullivan should help as well, now that the adjustment period is over. 

[EasyGoer27]

Rashid has looked good/fit in summer league.........I expect good things......

[ECSUalum]

I would have to agree with most of this Bloots....Keene St from 2000-2008 were one of New England's better teams from the LEC but that would be the exception and even Keene St would struggle in the NCAA's but were always a dangerous side especially at Home because of their field and rowdy fans.

WRT the LEC, I would start to watch UM Boston as contending for the future, (see my NE post), if they can continue to recruit the Portuguese/other, (Cape Verde Island/other) international players to the team and play a more disciplined game.  Not sure ECSU can ever compete with NESCAC w/o recruiting some top scorers of the caliber of Max Fantle, (their D has always been above average), but we will see.  BTW, Maxim Fantle will be assisting Coach DeVito this year.
Don't know what has happened to Keene St, they have really dropped out of being a competitive side, but, as Mr Right states above, can be a pain in the butt at home.

[amh63]

FYI, Amherst lost a two year assistant coach this Summer.  He moved to the Head Coach position at Benedictine.  Do not know enough wrt soccer if this matters.  Amherst's HC has high praise for Attila's contributions to the team's success.

[blooter442]

WRT the LEC, I would start to watch UM Boston as contending for the future, (see my NE post), if they can continue to recruit the Portuguese/other, (Cape Verde Island/other) international players to the team and play a more disciplined game.  Not sure ECSU can ever compete with NESCAC w/o recruiting some top scorers of the caliber of Max Fantle, (their D has always been above average), but we will see.  BTW, Maxim Fantle will be assisting Coach DeVito this year.
Don't know what has happened to Keene St, they have really dropped out of being a competitive side, but, as Mr Right states above, can be a pain in the butt at home.

Yeah I remember Brandeis having problems with Keene St. a couple of years back – eventually winning 2-1 on a somewhat fluky goal, but having been given a run for their money.

UMass-Boston is definitely one to watch, but I think their two biggest issues last year were their players' temperament and composure. They were on a tear last year before getting tripped up at a very average Babson, and while they went on to win the conference title they made an uneventful exit from NCAAs (amidst a player controversy). That said, if they can get those issues together and bring in some solid recruits, I think we may well be talking about them in the same vein as Gordon, etc. about being ready to make that next step to New England powerhouse (while UMB might have more talent, I think Gordon is a much more established program at this point).

ECSUalum, I should have mentioned that ECSU always puts up a good test against the NESCACs – I think my brain was tired by the end of the post, and so just did a quick summary of the other conferences I could think of.

[PaulNewman]

Looks like a lot of early money on Middlebury, not only to take the NESCAC but also to be a prime threat for the national title.

Definitely a high risk, high reward pick. I'm going the other way with a hunch that they will disappoint, and with the view that last year was their year to shine which didn't pan out due to a combination of blowing it and getting screwed.  I think they would have been a tough out had they made the tourney last year.  Obviously could do it this year but all of the good NESCAC teams are very familiar with how to deal with the two big guns up top.

I expect this to be one of best NESCAC seasons since I've been paying attention. Tufts is here to stay and Williams will come back. Amherst will be a load to handle with the pressure finally off of them and even with the high profile graduations. And Wesleyan is due to take over the Bowdoin role sooner or later.

Tufts
Amherst
Williams
Wesleyan
Midd
Conn Coll
Trinity
Bowdoin
Colby
Bates
Hamilton