NESCAC

[blooter442]

I thought Tasker was their MVP in their playoff games last year as well.   Was he a first-year last year?

I myself would pick Greenwood, but if you are talking field players then I would agree with that. Yes, he was a first-year last year, and I think was the pick of the bunch in that class, even considering how highly-touted Rojas was coming in.

[SoccerMom_5]

Also, check out the Bowdoin soccer facebook page - they seem to be updating it pretty regularly. Their goal against Tufts in the scrimmage was a good bit of passing.

Thanks.   I appreciate you pointing that out.  I always look at the NESCAC schedule and the school's team page and forget that all of the teams have their own social media pages. lol

[SoccerMom_5]

I thought Tasker was their MVP in their playoff games last year as well.   Was he a first-year last year?

I myself would pick Greenwood, but if you are talking field players then I would agree with that. Yes, he was a first-year last year, and I think was the pick of the bunch in that class, even considering how highly-touted Rojas was coming in.

Yes - field players. I thought Tasker distinguished himself.  Pretty good for anyone, but remarkable for a first-year.   

[truenorth]

Wow that was super annoying...that was really loud....1-0 Bowdoin on the frosh Bryd's follow up...Hmm someone thought Bryd would be a factor today in last night's predictions....

He reminds me a little bit of Andrew Jones.  Lots of energy and just relentless. He makes things happen.

I had fun watching the Bowdoin vs. Williams game in Brunswick today.   In my view, it was a deserved W for Bowdoin.  Bowdoin looks strong up the spine...from Van Siclen in goal to Ward and Bubb as center backs and Miang in the center of the pitch.  First year Byrd adds some speed and skill on the flanks.  They are lacking a true attacking threat, which has often been the case in recent years.  But they have talent and experience, are very organized defensively, seem to believe in each other, and will be a tough out this season.

[SoccerMom_5]

I am not even sure Williams will be on the bubble. They have 4 Shots with 1 SOG all game. I realize Bowdoin is difficult to generate a ton of solid chances against but this is starting to get down right ugly with today's game and yesterday's win at Colby. Williams always has had a penetrating attacking central midfielder who could thread the needle and "run the show" so to speak. They just do not have that at all and couple that with no real goal scoring threats and like i said in December and kind of like the SLU situation the recruiting needs to be stepped up. I see some talent and definite organization but for the most part a ton of role players and Williams is starting to look like just another average D3 / Nescac side.

But -- to be fair:

Teams that rely on "penetrating players" to thread the needle never do that great against Bowdoin's back-line.  Look at what Bowdoin has done to Tufts and Amherst (speaking of teams to rely on one pentrating player)   

And -- interestingly-- I saw my first Colby game of the year today, and it was not what I had been lead to believe.  Really, I thought that they were playing pretty decent soccer.    They were moving the ball around on the ground and moving up and down the field as a team.  AND... today, Colby was doing a really good job of breaking up play as it came through the middle and limiting the opportunities for breakaways.  If they played that way yesterday... then that would have been tough for Williams if they count on those breakaways ... ?  I did not see that game of course, so I am sure you know better than I if that was a factor.

[truenorth]

Oh...and I was chatting with friend who is a former Bowdoin assistant coach.  Justin Serpone was at the game scouting Williams for next week's Amherst vs. Williams match-up.  These guys have known each other for years, and Serpone indicated that Amherst was lucky to grab 3 points vs. Bowdoin on a PK.  He actually felt Bowdoin slightly outplayed Amherst in that game in Amherst.

[SoccerMom_5]

Wow that was super annoying...that was really loud....1-0 Bowdoin on the frosh Bryd's follow up...Hmm someone thought Bryd would be a factor today in last night's predictions....

He reminds me a little bit of Andrew Jones.  Lots of energy and just relentless. He makes things happen.

I had fun watching the Bowdoin vs. Williams game in Brunswick today.   In my view, it was a deserved W for Bowdoin.  Bowdoin looks strong up the spine...from Van Siclen in goal to Ward and Bubb as center backs and Miang in the center of the pitch.  First year Byrd adds some speed and skill on the flanks.  They are lacking a true attacking threat, which has often been the case in recent years.  But they have talent and experience, are very organized defensively, seem to believe in each other, and will be a tough out this season.

I watched part of that game online, and a game last week, too.  I thought that without a big athlete to play "the top," they would benefit from playing more of a cooperative game.  It seemed to me that they need more support from the middle up in the box.  Crosses were coming in and no one would be there.   Seemed like the midfield was always sitting just a little too deep and could not get forward to support the attack on time. In the last game I watched the outside backs really contributed as much or more to the offense as the midfield did. Based on stats alone, it looks like McColl  and MacMillan who have been playing as backs are contributing more to the offense than Niang and Stenquist who both seem to sitting very deep this year.  I remember them from the Tufts game last year -- especially Niang really holding down the middle and mobing the ball forward, so I was surprised by how deep they seem to be sitting this year.   Maybe that is a team strategy... what do I know?  But... I thought that the game actually seemed to get better when the center backs started overlapping the defensive mids.  I noticed Ward and Bubbs both crossed the center line multiple times before passing and that it usually turned into some sort of opportunity up front.  But...  Looks like they would want a big athletic guy like Niang win those 50-50s in the middle so he can be part of creating the offense.  But, again, what do I know - I wasn't even there ?     Anyway -- that is what it seemed like from the video.  Did  it look the same in real life?

[truenorth]

Based on what I saw in person, your observations seem to be accurate SoccerMom.  I think Scott Wiercinski is by nature conservative in his approach to the game...defend first and be opportunistic on the counterattack.  Even when the back line is moving forward (center backs and/or outside backs), they are always very attentive and reactive to balls coming back, and the goalkeeper Van Siclen is very vocal and directive (in a good way). 

So my take is that Wiercinski is more motivated to prevent goals than to take big risks scoring them.  I think the overall talent on the team is somewhat constrained by that style, but it works for solidity and results. Having had one of my sons play D1 in the Ivy League and the other D3 in the NESCAC, I can say that one of the differences is that D3 generally lacks attacking players who are both quick AND skilled. 

You might find a D3 attacking player who has blazing speed but doesn't have skill in controlling the ball and finishing...or you might find a D3 attacking player who is skilled on the ball and a good instinctive finisher but doesn't have true breakaway speed.  In D1 there are some attacking players who are more of the complete package.

I actually think there are a lot of good players on these D3 teams...but generally not 1 through 11...more like 1 through 6 or 7.  Given the limited, seasonal nature of soccer at D3 schools, there are very limited opportunities for developing skill and overall team cohesion.  Hence the relative lack of "beautiful, possession style football" that so many parents on this thread seem to yearn for. 

And in my personal opinion, that's perfectly OK.  These are great student athletes who (with all apologies to the NCAA ad campaign) truly are going to go pro in something other than sports.  And many of them are going to be pretty darn good in the careers/jobs they pursue!

[SoccerMom_5]

Based on what I saw in person, your observations seem to be accurate SoccerMom.  I think Scott Wiercinski is by nature conservative in his approach to the game...defend first and be opportunistic on the counterattack.  Even when the back line is moving forward (center backs and/or outside backs), they are always very attentive and reactive to balls coming back, and the goalkeeper Van Siclen is very vocal and directive (in a good way). 

So my take is that Wiercinski is more motivated to prevent goals than to take big risks scoring them.  I think the overall talent on the team is somewhat constrained by that style, but it works for solidity and results. Having had one of my sons play D1 in the Ivy League and the other D3 in the NESCAC, I can say that one of the differences is that D3 generally lacks attacking players who are both quick AND skilled. 

You might find a D3 attacking player who has blazing speed but doesn't have skill in controlling the ball and finishing...or you might find a D3 attacking player who is skilled on the ball and a good instinctive finisher but doesn't have true breakaway speed.  In D1 there are some attacking players who are more of the complete package.

I actually think there are a lot of good players on these D3 teams...but generally not 1 through 11...more like 1 through 6 or 7.  Given the limited, seasonal nature of soccer at D3 schools, there are very limited opportunities for developing skill and overall team cohesion.  Hence the relative lack of "beautiful, possession style football" that so many parents on this thread seem to yearn for. 

And in my personal opinion, that's perfectly OK.  These are great student athletes who (with all apologies to the NCAA ad campaign) truly are going to go pro in something other than sports.  And many of them are going to be pretty darn good in the careers/jobs they pursue!

Sure.  That's why they decided on the schools they chose, right. It ain't always pretty to watch, though, is it?

And also agreed on the importance of defense. Of course. Defense wins championships.  But you do still have to score to win games.

I noticed last year that Bowdoin usually gave up goals when they were trying to "pack it in."   The more they played forward, the less likely that was to happen.  They seem to be a very solid defense-oriemted team.  Still they  often seem to give up goals on set pieces or PKs (like vs. Amherst) because they don't move out, but just defend & clear, defend & clear and until there is some sort of error in the chaos.
From the limited games I have seen, it looks like they when they move the ball forward, they seem to stay more orgnaized across the field.

Colby did that really well today and it really helped them.   So, that was interesting.    It looked like Bowdoin had some moments of that today too. 

[truenorth]

As a fan, I personally don't always need college soccer to be pretty.  I enjoy the physicality and the competitiveness.  For my "prettiness quotient", I'm a Liverpool fan and thoroughly enjoy watching Premier League games.

I'm pleased to hear that Colby sounds like they're playing some good soccer.  They deserve to be on an upswing.

[Ommadawn]

Tufts is big, but not as big as Amherst in recent years. That said, I don't deny that Shapiro has recruited for size with somewhat of an arms race going on in the NESCAC.

I got curious about how Tufts has dealt with the arms (legs?) race in NESCAC based on your comments and those of Mr. Newman, and decided to run a crude analysis of the Jumbos rosters available on their website.  For Coach Shapiro's first few years, the percentage of players 6'0" and over held steady at about 35%. Over the past couple of years, however, the percentage of tall players has grown decidedly.  The percentage of players at or above 6'0" reached approximately 50% in 2015 and is now a complete reversal of the early years, with approximately 65% at 6'0" or over.  All that said, I don't think that the squad is full of "goons," and the team appears to be quite capable of playing the ball on the ground. 

[Mr.Right]

Based on what I saw in person, your observations seem to be accurate SoccerMom.  I think Scott Wiercinski is by nature conservative in his approach to the game...defend first and be opportunistic on the counterattack.  Even when the back line is moving forward (center backs and/or outside backs), they are always very attentive and reactive to balls coming back, and the goalkeeper Van Siclen is very vocal and directive (in a good way). 

So my take is that Wiercinski is more motivated to prevent goals than to take big risks scoring them.  I think the overall talent on the team is somewhat constrained by that style, but it works for solidity and results. Having had one of my sons play D1 in the Ivy League and the other D3 in the NESCAC, I can say that one of the differences is that D3 generally lacks attacking players who are both quick AND skilled. 

You might find a D3 attacking player who has blazing speed but doesn't have skill in controlling the ball and finishing...or you might find a D3 attacking player who is skilled on the ball and a good instinctive finisher but doesn't have true breakaway speed.  In D1 there are some attacking players who are more of the complete package.

I actually think there are a lot of good players on these D3 teams...but generally not 1 through 11...more like 1 through 6 or 7.  Given the limited, seasonal nature of soccer at D3 schools, there are very limited opportunities for developing skill and overall team cohesion.  Hence the relative lack of "beautiful, possession style football" that so many parents on this thread seem to yearn for. 

And in my personal opinion, that's perfectly OK.  These are great student athletes who (with all apologies to the NCAA ad campaign) truly are going to go pro in something other than sports.  And many of them are going to be pretty darn good in the careers/jobs they pursue!

Honestly, the best D3 Programs should be able to hang with most D1 programs except the ACC / Pac 12 and a couple others. You will get a couple D3 players that have slipped thru the cracks of the D1's or are missed but that is becoming more and more rare...The Ivies are NOT that much better. They are better for sure and you are correct about the depth slipping after players #6-18 and that is what would hurt the most. However, the style in the Ivies is hardly pure futbol. They have more skill which makes them more entertaining to watch and have players that can "take over games" which Nescac does not this year BUT they are not playing great futbol. I am betting 2012 Amherst, 1999-2002 Williams and maybe 2007 Midd would be in the Top 3 of the ivies on those given years. However, the Ivies are getting better especially the bottom half which makes their league more difficult. This is where the best academic schools in D3 have an advantage on the average D3 academic schools in getting special players as the player might choose an Amherst / Williams over an above average D1 because of academics. They would never choose an average academic D3 over a D1. Same with Messiah and the Christian connection..etc...We have discussed this for years so I am not going to dig back into it.

[Mr.Right]

Oh...and I was chatting with friend who is a former Bowdoin assistant coach.  Justin Serpone was at the game scouting Williams for next week's Amherst vs. Williams match-up.  These guys have known each other for years, and Serpone indicated that Amherst was lucky to grab 3 points vs. Bowdoin on a PK.  He actually felt Bowdoin slightly outplayed Amherst in that game in Amherst.

Monday morning guess----Your friend is Mike Healy who assisted Ainscough and O'leary.

Bowdoin is showing what we believed to be the case in the begining of the season. Their spine is solid, they have some nice pieces out wide, GK is excellent, they are extremely conservative and organized BUT they have no goal scorers. They can hang with any team in the country because of their system and style but it would be a big ask to get more than 1 goal against the best teams and the top of Nescac. Compare that to the 2010 Bowdoin NCAA Final 4 team which had all that plus long throwers and huge big bodied get at the end of set piece guys that would score for them.  They were ugly to watch but had skill with Eddie Jones on the flank and a couple others. 2017 Bowdoin is not even close to 2010 Bowdoin and that is why they are a good team and probably an NCAA team but they will not be going very far because they have no finishers.

A trip down memory lane....2010 Bowdoin beating Midd in the NCAA Elite 8 at the buzzer to get to San Antonio...As you can see the big bodies are all over the field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VehlY0URGKc

[truenorth]

Good memory.  My son played on that Bowdoin team, and their starting 11 were very good.  The issue was that the talent and size dropped off beyond 12 or 13 players.  Their starting 11 would have been competitive with some of the weaker Ivies...  But the reality is that at least a couple of starters are dinged up or not able to play at any given point in time on most of these D3 teams, and they would have their hands full trying to compete for a full 90 with a competitive D1 team.

That's frankly what spelled Bowdoin's demise in the national semis vs. Lynchburg in 2010.  One of their starting midfielders left the game in the first 10 minutes with a torn hamstring and they just didn't have the depth to last 90 minutes in 85 degree weather in early December.  Lynchburg scored the tying goal in the 89th minute and won in the second overtime.

The core theme here being that depth is a big consideration over the course of a season and in highly competitive post-season games.

And yes, Bowdoin's winning goal in the final second of the national quarterfinals against Middlebury was one of the most exciting moments I've witnessed as a sports fan live or on TV.  Thanks for the memories!

[SoccerMom_5]

Oh...and I was chatting with friend who is a former Bowdoin assistant coach.  Justin Serpone was at the game scouting Williams for next week's Amherst vs. Williams match-up.  These guys have known each other for years, and Serpone indicated that Amherst was lucky to grab 3 points vs. Bowdoin on a PK.  He actually felt Bowdoin slightly outplayed Amherst in that game in Amherst.

Monday morning guess----Your friend is Mike Healy who assisted Ainscough and O'leary.

Bowdoin is showing what we believed to be the case in the begining of the season. Their spine is solid, they have some nice pieces out wide, GK is excellent, they are extremely conservative and organized BUT they have no goal scorers. They can hang with any team in the country because of their system and style but it would be a big ask to get more than 1 goal against the best teams and the top of Nescac. Compare that to the 2010 Bowdoin NCAA Final 4 team which had all that plus long throwers and huge big bodied get at the end of set piece guys that would score for them.  They were ugly to watch but had skill with Eddie Jones on the flank and a couple others. 2017 Bowdoin is not even close to 2010 Bowdoin and that is why they are a good team and probably an NCAA team but they will not be going very far because they have no finishers.

A trip down memory lane....2010 Bowdoin beating Midd in the NCAA Elite 8 at the buzzer to get to San Antonio...As you can see the big bodies are all over the field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VehlY0URGKc

I am picking up on the "long-throwers" comment, because I remember thinking about that as I watched the game this weekend.
This Bowdoin team had at least two "long-throwers" last year, also.  They  just don't seem to call on them very often. I just was thinking about that as I watched one of the games this weekend.