NESCAC

[midwest]

Adding, my kid really liked the Dickinson program, and thought Brian Redding was a straight-up guy. Haverford would be another one to consider, though they are in the midst of hiring new head coach, so it would mean seeing where that shakes out.

My kid also loved the St Lawrence program (Liberty league) and would have gone there in a heartbeat if he'd been offered a spot. Many guys were technical, quick players, and the team was more diverse than many, which my kid appreciated. Vassar also seems to continue to rise, and the coach had indicated there was more flexibility on test scores as long as the gpa and rigor were there.

[luckylefty]

Calling Lancaster one of the great places to visit in the Country is a gigantic stretch, but I do agree that the Centennial has some great schools. Playing style may or may not matter for your kid. Hopkins for instance played some incredible possession this year, F&M is typically a bit direct. 

If I was a kid looking at Centennail level schools, Hopkins would be the first place I started.

[mom1234]

Wow, super input and a lot to think about. Definitely positives on F&M, but from a style point of view, on our visit what bothered me was that the coaches talk about "building from the front" not the back. They boot the ball to the opponent's half then possess/pressure there. To me that sounds like a strategy you use to win when you don't have technically sound midfielders who can keep possession or weak defense, but I'm definitely no soccer expert. My kid's a holding mid, so to me that sounds like he wouldn't have much of a job with that style. Based on some comments the coaches have made, it sounds like they'd be putting him at attacking mid to capitalize on his skills. Hmm...

Ommadawn, what is the "message" from Murphy that kids do or don't buy into?
Also, if I understand you right, a minimum of 1550 on the old SAT would be like a 550 math/ 550 verbal on the new one. Which coach told you he took players like that? Maybe I am underestimating what the higher ranking NESCAC schools are willing to take for a good athlete. I haven't had my son reach out to Tufts, Williams, Hopkins, Amherst, and the other schools with super intimidating admittance rates and rankings because I figured that wouldn't be realistic. Given the info I provided, anyone think maybe that is the wrong strategy? Should he just throw his resume at everyone in NESCAC and see what happens? Lots of work and money to visit all these schools when you have to fly halfway across the country, so I'm trying to narrow it at least somewhat. The GPA is there, the rigor for the most part too, but I doubt my son will do much better than a 1250.

Also, as far as fitting in somewhere, I worry if he'll get overwhelmed in super competitive school. He works hard in school, but I wouldn't call him a "brain." I don't want him to feel like literally everyone around him is smarter than him.

[rudy]

Wow, super input and a lot to think about. Definitely positives on F&M, but from a style point of view, on our visit what bothered me was that the coaches talk about "building from the front" not the back. They boot the ball to the opponent's half then possess/pressure there. To me that sounds like a strategy you use to win when you don't have technically sound midfielders who can keep possession or weak defense, but I'm definitely no soccer expert. My kid's a holding mid, so to me that sounds like he wouldn't have much of a job with that style. Based on some comments the coaches have made, it sounds like they'd be putting him at attacking mid to capitalize on his skills. Hmm...

Ommadawn, what is the "message" from Murphy that kids do or don't buy into?
Also, if I understand you right, a minimum of 1550 on the old SAT would be like a 550 math/ 550 verbal on the new one. Which coach told you he took players like that? Maybe I am underestimating what the higher ranking NESCAC schools are willing to take for a good athlete. I haven't had my son reach out to Tufts, Williams, Hopkins, Amherst, and the other schools with super intimidating admittance rates and rankings because I figured that wouldn't be realistic. Given the info I provided, anyone think maybe that is the wrong strategy? Should he just throw his resume at everyone in NESCAC and see what happens? Lots of work and money to visit all these schools when you have to fly halfway across the country, so I'm trying to narrow it at least somewhat. The GPA is there, the rigor for the most part too, but I doubt my son will do much better than a 1250.

Also, as far as fitting in somewhere, I worry if he'll get overwhelmed in super competitive school. He works hard in school, but I wouldn't call him a "brain." I don't want him to feel like literally everyone around him is smarter than him.

1550 will not get into most nescac. Maybe a couple on the bottom...trinity or Hamilton maybe? My daughter got tip from tufts with 2070. Top half of nescac anything less than 2000 or around 1350 for current format then coach won't commit a tip to you cause not a good admissions candidate.

[mom1234]

So is this the "bottom half" from an academic standpoint?: Conn College, Trinity, Bates, Hamilton, Colby or Wesleyan?
All these schools talk nowadays about their career services and alumni networking opportunities. Anyone think one of the above (or one of the Centennial ones I mentioned) stands out in that respect putting that talk into action?
Back to coaching styles/personalities, would love to hear from Mr. Right or anyone else. Also would like to know if any particular coach has undesirable practices such as favoring older players vs. better players, keeping too big of a roster, screaming during games, or anything else I haven't thought of.
Thanks, ya'll!

[rudy]

So is this the "bottom half" from an academic standpoint?: Conn College, Trinity, Bates, Hamilton, Colby or Wesleyan?
All these schools talk nowadays about their career services and alumni networking opportunities. Anyone think one of the above (or one of the Centennial ones I mentioned) stands out in that respect putting that talk into action?
Back to coaching styles/personalities, would love to hear from Mr. Right or anyone else. Also would like to know if any particular coach has undesirable practices such as favoring older players vs. better players, keeping too big of a roster, screaming during games, or anything else I haven't thought of.
Thanks, ya'll!

Yes academic. I think 1250 for 2 score format  is minimum for even bottom 2-3 . No way enough for Williams or Amherst. Another daughter of mine was not accepted to Bates with 1850 and very good GPA from a top 20 private high school. Surprised at that but shows how tough admissions is at even the average nescac schools.  If he really wants to play soccer then he needs to get on the schools radar by attending an ID camp that the school runs or a camp the school attends. The future 500 camp in PA has lots of coaches from the northeast. If he's entering senior year next fall the I suggest attending that camp in the summer. Franklin and Marshall should be there since his brother runs the camp. Dozens of coaches.

[midwest]

I would not put Colby, Bates or Wesleyan at the "bottom" of NESCAC for admissions purposes. Conn Coll and Trinity are slightly less demanding for admissions than the rest of the conference.

Maybe things have changed, but we thought Flaherty was a screamer. Murphy is very intense, kind of "in your face," which was not a good match for my kid. Ultimately, we needed merit aid (Conn had not started awarding it when my kid was applying), so NESCACs came off the list

St Lawrence had a surprisingly bumpy season this year, but has some wonderfully talented guys. Coach is measured, not a screamer, returns to St L to take the head coaching job after being an assistant in the MLS. The program is a real "class act" and the athletic facilities are gorgeous. Kenyon would be another one to consider beyond Centennial and NESCAC, coaching staff is dead set on bringing home a championship.

[mom1234]

Rudy, was your daughter an athlete? That's where I'm interested to see if the athletes get a bit more leniency like I've heard.  As far as doing our work, he's talking to coaches, has visited a few already, we've already done one camp and have firm invites for upcoming on-campus spring and summer ones... just don't want to give away too much in case these coaches have spies on the message boards..
St. Lawrence - thanks sounds tempting from a soccer standpoint, but dang, that's practically in Canada. I suppose Maine isn't much better, though!

[midwest]

St L is not easy for kids flying in -- either Montreal or Syracuse, then drive. There are shuttles at break times to Boston and New York, including airports, I believe.

Vassar would be worth exploring as well, easier travel, and coach had said he had some room on test scores if everything else was in line. Vassar keeps improving every year, though I am not familiar with their style of play. 

[Buck O.]

- Should he step "down" to Centennial as a strategy to secure better financial aid? Those coaches are dying to bring him on but maybe that's stepping down in level too much and he'll be bored? Along with that: any how much lower is the level of play/ quality of players on F&M and Dickinson compares to NESCAC? Should we write those off?

Yes, your son should listen to Centennial coaches. The F&M coach in particular (Dan Wagner) is a class act, and the school has a  large endowment that is used to give significant need-based aid. A college friend of mine sent his daughter there, b/c they covered almost the entire cost of attendance. He's a regular middle-class working guy without any inherited wealth, and his daughter isn't an elite level student. It was mainly need-based aid. But, your son's interest should start with the coaching staff.

Ditto Dickinson on financial aid, but I don't know their coach and am unable to compare him with F&M's coach.

As for other factors, Dickinson is located in downtown Carlisle, one of the nicest college towns in PA--which, like New England, has dozens of college towns. PA towns are generally quite different from NESCAC towns--more ethnically and racially diverse, more religious, not as old (in terms of their history), and much less expensive. Not necessarily more isolated geographically, however, and Carlisle is only about 25 minutes from the Amtrak station in Harrisburg, which means 25 minutes from the entire Northeast corridor. Trains from there to NYC are very reasonable, since the state contracts for regular service with Amtrak.

As for Lancaster (F&M), it's a trending city these days, with a pretty little downtown area within a safe walk from the college. There's a terrific theater, many small eateries, even an orchestra.
And a big Amtrak station that is just an hour from downtown Philly, a city that has gone through an unpublicized Renaissance, making it one of the great places to visit in the nation. You can match the food and culture of NYC on a much smaller scale, at a fraction of the price. If I'm your son, I'm doing F&M.

In terms of soccer, F&M is overall better than Dickinson (IMO), but both teams are well coached. Dickinson plays Messiah most years in the regular season, but so far without even a single result--but they clearly deserved to beat the Falcons in Grantham a few years ago and were just unlucky. F&M doesn't usually play Messiah any more, outside of the tournament, but they do have some top level non-conference opponents on their schedule every year, so either way your son would get to play against the best teams in D3.

I'll add one more thing about F&M:  I'm on their mailing list, and F&M really sets itself apart with the quality of their emails.  Of course they want you to come to their camps, but instead of simply advertising themselves, they provide solid info.  For example, they recently concluded a multi-part series on what characteristics they look for when recruiting players at different positions, which I found very useful. 

[mom1234]

Yes, we get the F&M emails, and I totally agree that their email campaign is excellent, which made me think, these guys probably have their act together. On the other hand, unlike most of the schools we've talked about in Centennial and NESCAC, they don't travel to a single big tournaments outside the northeast to recruit (Disney, NL), so they might be missing out on opportunities to get good players outside their region.

[TyWebb]

Hello Mom1234,

I'm new to the board also, my son just completed his college search process and I'm happy to relay a few things to you about some schools that have come up in the discussion.

Vassar - Coach Jennings seems like a nice guy and a straight shooter. He was a terrific communicator and was always very prompt
             to return emails and calls to my son. I'm no great judge of style of play, but watching their games via streaming last season I wouldn't call them direct.
             My son is a defender so I have to admit, we didn't discuss attacking styles. Vassar always seems to be in the mix for the Liberty League title
             which was appealing. As far as your son's SAT score (1250-1300 your guessing), I would think he would have a very decent chance of acceptance, especially with a tip from the coach.
             Vassar still attracts many more women than men. The most recent College Data indicates that Vassar accepted 55% of all men who applied.  Pretty good odds, especially for such
             a good school.

Wesleyan - Son did a one day ID camp. One take away from it, Coach Wheeler (who seemed personable) mentioned in a parent only meeting that if your SAT score was below 1300, if I recall correctly, that you would be better off looking somewhere else. The fact that Wesleyan hasnt' been as competitive in the NESCAC recently did factor into my son's decision not to pursue, academically it wasn't an issue.

Best of luck, and if I think of anything else that may be helpful, I'll be sure to relay.

[rudy]

Rudy, was your daughter an athlete? That's where I'm interested to see if the athletes get a bit more leniency like I've heard.  As far as doing our work, he's talking to coaches, has visited a few already, we've already done one camp and have firm invites for upcoming on-campus spring and summer ones... just don't want to give away too much in case these coaches have spies on the message boards..
St. Lawrence - thanks sounds tempting from a soccer standpoint, but dang, that's practically in Canada. I suppose Maine isn't much better, though!

yes both were athletes. Younger graduates this year.  Coaches can give a tip to  some players but not all in a given year. My daughter got 1 of 3 tips her coach had to give which the coach told us pretty much guaranteed she would be admitted if she committed to accept the spot the summer before her senior year. She told us she never had a tipped athlete not get in...but they make sure the athlete grades and test scores are within range of typical incoming class. They do a pre read with admissions usually just to be sure. No matter how good the athlete is they cannot get them admitted if they are not within range. Ivy League actually have more flexibility than the nescac schools. With a 15% acceptance rate at Tufts  this really helps. my son was also recruited by lots of strong d3 and some mid major d1.  He ended up picking a d3 that fit his style of play and team fit. He has no regrets. Good luck finding a school. If coach is interested and offers overnight visit that is the best way to find out if it will be a good fit as far as teammates and team chemistry. All if my kids found this to be the most important step in deciding yes or no to a school

[Falconer]

Calling Lancaster one of the great places to visit in the Country is a gigantic stretch, but I do agree that the Centennial has some great schools. Playing style may or may not matter for your kid. Hopkins for instance played some incredible possession this year, F&M is typically a bit direct. 

If I was a kid looking at Centennail level schools, Hopkins would be the first place I started.

I agree that would be a "gigantic stretch," but my comment was about Philly, not Lancaster. My point was that Philly is just an hour away by rail from Lancaster, such that students at F&M can basically go to Philly whenever it fits into their schedules--and that Philly is now so much nicer to visit than it was a few decades ago. There are now many nice restaurants and shops within a short walk of the Amtrak station, let alone the Renaissance that's taken place in and around Society Hill (which is somewhat further away, but still just a free connecting train ride from 30th Street Station). The Museums and theaters in Philly are also fairly close to Amtrak. So, all of that is available to F&M students on a day trip, even if you don't have a car. Etown students have the same benefit, since there's a large, newly renovated station about a mile from campus. Dickinson is further from Philly and some distance from the nearest Amtrak in Harrisburg, which doesn't have free parking. Still, it's probably closer to a major city than some of the Ivies and several NESCACs.

[truenorth]

I think the posters have all provided some useful insights on NESCAC admissions for student athletes.  My recollection is that several of the more selective NESCAC schools have a "banding" approach to considering and admitting student athletes.  "A" band students will typically be admitted purely based on their stellar academic merits and don't need a coach's tip.  "B" band students will probably need at least an active nudge from the coach and most likely an actual tip.  "C" band students will need a coach's tip and some other notable advocacy (e.g. letters of recommendation from high profile people, etc.).

My older son, who had a solid GPA and 1,200 board scores, would have been a "C band" recruit at Bowdoin.  He ended up being recruited by and playing for Brown.  As someone mentioned, it can actually be a little easier to get admitted to an Ivy as a recruited student athlete than a NESCAC.  The key elements in all of this are:  a) does your child like the school and the team culture; and b) there needs to be crystal clear communication from the coach that your child would receive a tip.