NESCAC

[wizard]

I was at the Bowdoin-Amherst game yesterday and have a question for the experts here. WTF is up with NESCAC refs? As a Grade 8 ref myself, I've got years of experience on this subject with the younger crowd. I thought that game yesterday was completely out of hand from the get go. IMHO, Mike the ref didn't call much that deserved a whistle (including two handed grabs, vicious elbows, obvious jersey pulling etc...), blew it a few times unexpectedly on soft, mysterious fould, and worst of all, he let the Amherst bench and players continually show him up, scream in his face (Amherst #10 should have had multiple yellows!), and endlessly waste time. The game was the most physical soccer game I have seen, and I saw Cornell play in person last year, so that says a lot!

Also saw at least 2 flip throws in directly in front of us that were questionable--no feet on the ground when the ball was released. Granted, that's tough to call and I can let that go. But the over the backs with forearm shivers on headers, grabbing of hips, and overall needless banging and trash talking had me leave that field quite down on NESCAC soccer in general. Can someone talk me off the edge here? Is NESCAC soccer always like this, or was it because it was a playoff game?!

Bowdoin fan, so understand I'm biased:

Yearly Yellow Card totals:
Amherst - 22
Middlebury - 20
Trinity - 19

Then it drops off.

All you need to know. As said before, it's Amherst and it's Serpone.

[rangerfan]

Interesting (and disappointing) responses, but I'm talking strictly about the referees here. I understand Amherst plays that style and I'm not here to criticize it. That's fine if one likes that brand of ... soccer. But WTF is up with the referees? Are the responders here suggesting that calls are not made at Amherst that are made at other places? Or that Serpone and Amherst somehow change the way games are called on their home pitch?

[PaulNewman]

So I guess this means a third national title for the Jumbos a la 2014 Tufts, 2015 Amherst, and 2016 Tufts who were all eliminated in the NESCAC quarterfinals on the way national titles.

I guess I have to root for Messiah to lose to Lycoming in the Commonwealth Final as the only hope for stopping Tufts!

And the rest of us are wondering if it's too much to ask to have more than a binary choice/result.  I believe the last time we had a non-Messiah, non-NESCAC winner was from that upstart OWU way back in 2011.

A wonderful team that was, led by the great Travis Wall. Somehow they lost to DePauw in the NCAC tournament, 4-2, after going 9-0 in the conference regular season. Their only other blemish was a 2-1 home loss on opening day to the Falcons, when Danny Thompson picked up a loose ball in the first minute and scored, and his brother Jack got another before Wall got one back.  For their part, the Falcons somehow lost at home to Neumann 1-0 in their opening tournament game (after a first-round bye). That season, the Bishops and the Falcons combined to go 41-3-1. They haven't met since that opening day game. Love to see them play again, in the Final Four this time. 

LOL, Falconer.  I do appreciate you because you are such an honest fan.  There are a few teams now that you've said you'd like to see in the Final Four, as long as the Falcons are one of them  .  And you managed to work in a Messiah reference -- and winning one, of course -- into OWU's 2011 title.  Kenyon actually was ahead of OWU that year 1-0 off an assist from a frosh until the 68th minute when Travis Wall broke through.  The time Messiah would have played OWU again was 2013 when OWU would have hosted the game but the Battling Bishops got upset by Rose-Hulman.  Messiah would have gotten Kenyon and OWU back to back on Roy Rike for the Sweet 16 and Elite 8.  I dare say the atmosphere for that sectional would have compared well to the one that happened in Grantham.

[MEsoccer]

I was also at the game.  The fact that Serpone and his assistant both got yellow cards but their players didn't was comical.  The ref had no control of the game from the start.  Amherst still was called with for more than twice the number of fouls.  It easily could have been four times.  The only time the ref showed some common sense was not calling a hand ball when a shot hit a Bowdoin defender's hand that was in a natural position by his side.  That off course sent Serpone into a tirade.

[PaulNewman]

Aside from the reading the tea leaves value, another point occurred to me regarding the NESCAC quarterfinal upsets in recent years.

The number of times top seeds have lost in the NESCAC quarterfinals seems like additional evidence of the toughness of the conference and relative overall parity.  Over the last handful of years it almost has been more surprising when the top seed did not lose in the quarters.  And this year, BOTH top seeds lost, on their home pitches.  Indeed, every higher seed lost except for the 4v5 game.  Now, I don't think anyone is going to confuse Colby with Tufts or (Conn Coll with Tufts in 2014), but on the other hand the result was not totally shocking either.  Colby deserves a ton of credit for competing so hard and believing they had a chance against one of the very best teams in the country on the latter's home field (while acknowledging that a thank you card to Braun for missing on at least 4-5 very clean chances with Rojas having an almost impossible to miss chance from 3 yards out in OT).

[rangerfan]

I was also at the game.  The fact that Serpone and his assistant both got yellow cards but their players didn't was comical.  The ref had no control of the game from the start.  Amherst still was called with for more than twice the number of fouls.  It easily could have been four times.  The only time the ref showed some common sense was not calling a hand ball when a shot hit a Bowdoin defender's hand that was in a natural position by his side.  That off course sent Serpone into a tirade.

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. The way that Amherst jersey #10 got in the face of the ref on more than one occasion and didn't get a card--the was one of the worst displays of being a complete A-hole on the field that I have ever seen, and he just got away with it. The Amherst coaches create the culture, and their players behaved like they played for their coach. If you are a player and want that, that's up the individual player--I can't fault a kid for wanting an Amherst degree. But again, why didn't the referee take control of that game?? It was such an embarrassing display.

[nescac1]

Serpone, due to his petulant histrionics, has long been the most unpopular coach in the league among opposing coaches and fans.  Amherst fans might claim it's because he wins, but I've never heard any complaints about Tufts or Shapiro despite Tufts' own run of dominance.  In the end, Amherst is hosting this weekend, so to beat the Mammoths one of the other three semfinalists will need to match Amherst physically and can't expect the refs to bail them out. 

I'm hoping one more win gets Williams its first tourney appearance under Coach Sullivan, otherwise it may be another off-season of what-iffs.  It seems like just a tiny handful of untimely, hearbreaking goals have been the difference between zero and 1-2 NCAA appearaces over the past few years.  In all events, both Williams and Hamilton need to win to keep their seasons alive and it should be a very even match-up. 

[Bobcat1]

Aside from the reading the tea leaves value, another point occurred to me regarding the NESCAC quarterfinal upsets in recent years.

The number of times top seeds have lost in the NESCAC quarterfinals seems like additional evidence of the toughness of the conference and relative overall parity.  Over the last handful of years it almost has been more surprising when the top seed did not lose in the quarters.  And this year, BOTH top seeds lost, on their home pitches.  Indeed, every higher seed lost except for the 4v5 game.  Now, I don't think anyone is going to confuse Colby with Tufts or (Conn Coll with Tufts in 2014), but on the other hand the result was not totally shocking either.  Colby deserves a ton of credit for competing so hard and believing they had a chance against one of the very best teams in the country on the latter's home field (while acknowledging that a thank you card to Braun for missing on at least 4-5 very clean chances with Rojas having an almost impossible to miss chance from 3 yards out in OT).

Interesting the draw with Colby did not hurt Tufts in either the D3Soccer poll nor the Coaches poll. Their NCAA regional ranking probably does not change as well. I concur with Mr. Right in that its doubtful they get an NCAA first round bye, but they most likely will host.  If Amherst wins the NESCAC Tournament it will be interesting to see if they get to host the first two rounds instead of Conn. I can't imagine the committee would have 3 NESCAC teams hosting the first two rounds. Then again I have been wrong before...

[PaulNewman]

Have other coaches and/or ADs confronted Serpone and/or complained to the Amherst administration?  I don't get how it is just allowed to continue or even escalate.  As I said earlier, I thought the antics on the field before the game started at Brandeis were just ridiculous.

That said, anti-Amherst fans may be suffering over the next couple of weeks.  Amherst looks like they have gained some momentum and I would guess they are going to be a very difficult team to knock out.

[1970s NESCAC Player]

Have other coaches and/or ADs confronted Serpone and/or complained to the Amherst administration?  I don't get how it is just allowed to continue or even escalate.  As I said earlier, I thought the antics on the field before the game started at Brandeis were just ridiculous.

That said, anti-Amherst fans may be suffering over the next couple of weeks.  Amherst looks like they have gained some momentum and I would guess they are going to be a very difficult team to knock out.

Ironically PN, my limited conversations with coaches in the region seem to indicate that Serpone is somewhat liked by his colleagues.  My sample size may be too small to be of value . . .  In any event, I expect that every NESCAC coach and probably referees are prepared for any Serpone antics that occur, and in that sense, I doubt anyone is surprised by them.

I've also spoken to ex-Amherst players and their parents who all say that his players loved playing for the guy.

He certainly seems to have something of a Jekyll and Hyde image.

[blooter442]

Armchair 2 cents (albeit not a coach): I don't think he's a "bad" guy, and from what I've read he's always been magnanimous in defeat, whether a regular-season loss or being bounced from the NCAA tournament. I also find that some coaches I've spoken with don't mind him. During games, however, his histrionics are definitely there, and I myself would find them tiring if I had to watch them every season. Perhaps it's one of those things where during the game is one matter but after is another, which might explain why some coaches don't mind him if they've spent time together off the field.

[PaulNewman]

Yeah, I've been confused by all the various comments on Serpone and Amherst over the years.  His comments in recaps are almost Calvin-coach gracious.  I've defended Amherst in the past but some of the stuff is tough to ignore.  I suppose I don't care as long as they don't get some unfair advantage by virtue of their behavior.

[truenorth]

My anecdotal story:  My son was recruited by Serpone during his first season at Amherst, but ended up choosing Bowdoin.  I sat in during the parent portion of the recruiting meeting and I was somewhat put off by Serpone's arrogance.  He claimed his mission was to bring D1 talent to Amherst, blah, blah, blah...  One of my son's best friends from club soccer ended up at Amherst and enjoyed playing for Serpone, as apparently most of his players do. 

And I recall my son saying that during the annual Bowdoin/Amherst battle his senior year, Serpone was complimenting him from the sideline whenever he made a good play, which was actually kind of classy.

So it seems at the end of the day we're talking about a complicated guy...one who can be a complete flamer on the sideline during the game, but one who is also charismatic and generally well liked by the athletes themselves.

[NESCAC11]

I've spoken with serpone when he has been at other NESCAC games scouting and he is extremely soft spoken, friendly, willing to discuss recent games etc. 100% different from the when he is on his Amherst sideline. I've also seen times where the Amherst video feed had to have the audio shut off because it was catching a non-stop stream of expletives from him during the game. so complicated is probably a great description.

[PaulNewman]

I hate to see the alma mater of my man David Foster Wallace sullied in any way.