NESCAC

[Yankeesoccerdad]

Massey has most of the NESCAC teams with a SOS of 2,3,4,8 or not far behind.  Bowdoin is an exception coming in at 55.  Since they all play each other, is this due to the Polar Bears weak OOC schedule or is their NESCAC front loaded with the low end NESCACs?  Conn College is 22.

Bowdoin's non conference schedule (with Massey Rankings of opponents)
Husson 212
Thomas 280
Maine Maritime 329
Southern Maine 274
U of New England 366

Middlebury non conference schedule
Mount Saint Mary's 206
Norwich 74
Framingham St 124
Eastern Nazarene 241
WPI 63

Amherst non conference
Mt. St. Vincent 200
Thomas 280
Manhattanville 133
Babson 10
WPI 63

Massey has most of the NESCAC teams with a SOS of 2,3,4,8 or not far behind.  Bowdoin is an exception coming in at 55.  Since they all play each other, is this due to the Polar Bears weak OOC schedule or is their NESCAC front loaded with the low end NESCACs?  Conn College is 22.

Bowdoin's non conference schedule (with Massey Rankings of opponents)
Husson 212
Thomas 280
Maine Maritime 329
Southern Maine 274
U of New England 366

Middlebury non conference schedule
Mount Saint Mary's 206
Norwich 74
Framingham St 124
Eastern Nazarene 241
WPI 63

Amherst non conference
Mt. St. Vincent 200
Thomas 280
Manhattanville 133
Babson 10
WPI 63

So are all the game scheduled factored in on the SOS on day one of the season and change according to the success of the team or do they only enter into the calculations once they have been played? In other words, for Midd, they play E Nazarene today.  Once played, their SOS will go down.

Yes, Massey updates automatically each day and adjusts strength of schedule and other factors based on daily results.  It is a neat website that shows win probability when you click on an individual team's upcoming games as well as expected score.  It doesn't estimate ties so the likelihood of a tie is the difference between the win probability of each team (Team A is 50%, Team B is 30% so tie is 20% likely).

[paclassic89]

It should also be noted that Massey includes some sort of historical power rating adjustment that carries over from year to year.  So his SOS numbers will be pretty accurate and are useful for eyeballing but they won't match the actual numbers that are released with the regional rankings

[northman]

Quote from: 4231CenterBack on October 11, 2022, 03:31:22 pm
So you are predicting just 4 at-large bids this year?  A little lighter than normal?  Or is the NESCAC typically a 5 bid league?  I guess your semi-finalists + 1 prediction makes sense this year since there are no true powerhouses to be upset this year in the conference.

The fatalist in me figures Amherst will bludgeon their way to the NCAA tournament somehow  .

Bludgeon: a thick stick with a heavy end, used as a weapon.

I know there's not much Amherst love in these halls and that's fine, I get it.  Other than being keen on doing well against NESCAC rivals, I don't have any particular teams I don't like, but my family has been adopted by the Mammoths and I gotta say, it suits us just fine.

I have no idea how many times you have played against/seen the Mammoths 4231 and I am sure it's more than me, but what I can say is that having just spent a few weeks there, watching games, training and re-watching games (things are quiet in Amherst) I can tell you that it thrills me that you and others are happy to underestimate the skill this team brings, I am quite confident no coaches do and there have been enough that Simple Coach has interviewed who understand exactly what they bring to the table.  I am not aware of any mandated D3 curriculum and equally I don't think asterisks appear against teams that progress/win a national tournament with something appearing in brackets saying, "didn't play the game the way some D3 Boards aesthetes would like".  The transition can be quite devastating when the team is on and isn't the game about getting in the opposition box? Getting behind most D3 defences isn't easy, but it might be just a little less hard than trying to play through a low block.   

Does the ball go in the air? Yes it does, but definitely not all the time and again, I am quite happy for teams to prepare for Amherst on that basis as they are setting up for failure.  Do players tackle, are they aggressive? Yes, winning the ball is part of the game.  In any event, I am yet to see a NESCAC team that didn't give as good as it got, perhaps they are able to fly under the radar.  I can't vouch for all decisions made about who goes and doesn't go to the tournament, but what I can say is that given that most in here agree that D3 isn't preparing its players for a career in the game, surely it's about making the most of the four years you have to impact, knowing that every year will be different and you might only get one decent chance.   

Love the instant passion you've developed for your new school! And I hope your son is enjoying his new home, both academically and athletically.  And i have a soft spot you personally as I lived in Oz for a time many years back :-)

But 4231CB must have hit a nerve. I don't think you'll find any "D3 board aesthetes" who feel Amherst victories should include an asterisks because they don't play the "right way". And nobody has ever said their style isn't effective, and all will likely agree it gives them a great chance at winning the ultimate prize.

I know players in the NESCAC. My son has played for and against many players in the NESCAC though HS and club. I know they're excellent players and will vouch for their skills and talents. So what I say next is not on behalf of the "Board aesthetes", but rather just a personal opinion. I find Amherst unwatchable and in fact, don't really enjoy watching any NESCAC game. Plus Serpone's sideline antics are boorish and tiresome. All this doesn't take away from the fact that I have Amherst ranked #8 in my last poll. I'm actually rooting for them because of your presence on this board, just as I also root for other teams that have strong board representation like W&L, Denison, Messiah, North Park, Hopkins, Scranton (where is NEPAFAN?), etc.

Do you have a preference between Union or League?

_______________________________________

A belated comment regarding the Amherst/Serpone discussion.  And for the record, I haven't posted for several years but I used to post as "true north".  However, when I attempted to re-register, I couldn't get a new password to align with my old handle.  So now I'm "northman".

At any rate, I had fun traveling with my younger son during the recruiting process in 2007.  One of our stops was Amherst, where Serpone was preparing to coach his very first season.  He emphasized that he was endeavoring to recruit D1 talent to a D3 program.  It was a little bit of a turnoff for my son and me at the time.  My son ultimately chose Bowdoin and had a great overall experience there.  He started for the team that beat Amherst and Middlebury in the NCAA playoffs on their way to the 2010 Final Four in San Antonio.

From the outset, Serpone did an effective job of recruiting talented and often big athletes.  From my perspective, they have pretty much always played below their talent level but have had great success with a physical, direct (and often aerial) game.  The results over the years speak for themselves.

Although Serpone can be a bit of a rooster and is a showman on the sideline, I think he's generally been liked and respected by his own athletes as well as athletes from opposing teams.  I still have a fond memory of my son (he was an outside back) taking a throw-in in front of the Amherst bench...and Serpone calling him by name and complementing him for a defensive play he had just made.  He's a classy guy in that respect.

[PaulNewman]

Welcome back True North!  Now if only we can find out if Ommadawn is OK and get him back in the mix.

[PaulNewman]

Some random NESCAC notes...

The NESCAC tournament is going to be off the hook.  Hopkins made the SEC football analogy, but here...and hopefully some are old enough to get the comparison...I'm reminded of the ACC bball tournament which was and still is a major event, led to the Big East tournament being a big event, etc.  I remember one year (1974) when NC State was #1 in the country and Maryland #2 and they had an epic ACC Final where the David Thompson (greatest college player I've ever seen other than maybe Alcindor/Jabbar) led Wolfpack won in OT to earn the one and only ACC NCAA berth (when there were no at large bids and went on the win the NCAA title over UCLA and Bill Walton in John Wooden's next to last season).  Anyway, we're almost certain to have quarterfinal matchups where the #1, #2, and #3 seeds play the #8, #7, and #6 seeds in toss-up or near toss-up affairs.  Indeed, it is VERY possible where we could have a couple of quarterfinals where the lower seed actually is the favorite.

Credit to @Enmorecat for dealing so well with all the chatter about Amherst.  Virtually everyone here acknowledges that Amherst is one of the top five programs in D3 with a rich tradition and a perhaps unmatched streak of NCAA Sweet 16 appearances (or better).  Most of us know that Amherst has very skilled soccer players as well, which I think contributes to some of the frustration about style of play.  I don't know how much you knew about how folks view Amherst before you joined the Mammoths family.  But in addition to style of play and physicality, the most consistent observation/complaint for over a decade has been the sideline antics of Serpone and by extension the players.  I wasn't sold on the degree of the latter for several years and frequently defended Amherst, but over time the evidence (from many sources) was just undeniable.  Anyway, you could go back 10-12 years here and find similar noise and critiques, and as far as I can tell Serpone and the Amherst family seem unbothered and perhaps even embrace the villain role.  Great school, great D3 soccer program, and a coach whose results put him at the very top of his profession regardless of what anyone says.

As for Serpone's serial accumulation of masters degrees I'm not sure what that's about.  At a minimum, it's odd.  How many masters programs does Bay Path have?  How rigorous can online masters programs be if you can earn several inside of a year? Reading the titles, are they more like weekend seminar certificate programs?  At any rate, I'm not sure 'scholar' is the word here.

[maineman]

Some random NESCAC notes...

The NESCAC tournament is going to be off the hook.  Hopkins made the SEC football analogy, but here...and hopefully some are old enough to get the comparison...I'm reminded of the ACC bball tournament which was and still is a major event, led to the Big East tournament being a big event, etc.  I remember one year (1974) when NC State was #1 in the country and Maryland #2 and they had an epic ACC Final where the David Thompson (greatest college player I've ever seen other than maybe Alcindor/Jabbar) led Wolfpack won in OT to earn the one and only ACC NCAA berth (when there were no at large bids and went on the win the NCAA title over UCLA and Bill Walton in John Wooden's next to last season).  Anyway, we're almost certain to have quarterfinal matchups where the #1, #2, and #3 seeds play the #8, #7, and #6 seeds in toss-up or near toss-up affairs.  Indeed, it is VERY possible where we could have a couple of quarterfinals where the lower seed actually is the favorite.

Credit to @Enmorecat for dealing so well with all the chatter about Amherst.  Virtually everyone here acknowledges that Amherst is one of the top five programs in D3 with a rich tradition and a perhaps unmatched streak of NCAA Sweet 16 appearances (or better).  Most of us know that Amherst has very skilled soccer players as well, which I think contributes to some of the frustration about style of play.  I don't know how much you knew about how folks view Amherst before you joined the Mammoths family.  But in addition to style of play and physicality, the most consistent observation/complaint for over a decade has been the sideline antics of Serpone and by extension the players.  I wasn't sold on the degree of the latter for several years and frequently defended Amherst, but over time the evidence (from many sources) was just undeniable.  Anyway, you could go back 10-12 years here and find similar noise and critiques, and as far as I can tell Serpone and the Amherst family seem unbothered and perhaps even embrace the villain role.  Great school, great D3 soccer program, and a coach whose results put him at the very top of his profession regardless of what anyone says.

As for Serpone's serial accumulation of masters degrees I'm not sure what that's about.  At a minimum, it's odd.  How many masters programs does Bay Path have?  How rigorous can online masters programs be if you can earn several inside of a year? Reading the titles, are they more like weekend seminar certificate programs?  At any rate, I'm not sure 'scholar' is the word here.

Regarding Amherst and Serpone, I recall at the end of last season, Simple Coach showed videos of Amherst players wrapping their arms around an opponent in the box while defending a corner.  SC said it had to be a "coached" tactic.  I am wondering if SC or anybody is still seeing this strategy by Amherst this season?  I am also wondering if officials have been clued into watching for it?

[College Soccer Observer]

Had a conversation with my son, who is a junior, about playing Amherst at Amherst.  This is something he has now done 3 times in 3 seasons (2019 regular season and NESCAC tournament, and 2021 NCAA tournament).  I said something about how hopefully all his future games against Amherst would be at home.  His response"  "I love playing them here.  The atmosphere gets me so focused and ready to play."  I think it is possbile both to dislike Amherst for how they play and go about their business and at the same time respect the rivalry and enjoy the high level competition that it brings. 

[PaulNewman]

Had a conversation with my son, who is a junior, about playing Amherst at Amherst.  This is something he has now done 3 times in 3 seasons (2019 regular season and NESCAC tournament, and 2021 NCAA tournament).  I said something about how hopefully all his future games against Amherst would be at home.  His response"  "I love playing them here.  The atmosphere gets me so focused and ready to play."  I think it is possbile both to dislike Amherst for how they play and go about their business and at the same time respect the rivalry and enjoy the high level competition that it brings.

Yup.  This.

I don't win often at Amherst, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis.

[northman]

Speaking of Dos Equis and Amherst, I recall hearing from my son and some of his Bowdoin teammates that a few Amherst players received mild suspensions for imbibing following their Final Four loss to Stevens in Greensboro in 2008...    My son had this on good authority because one of his club teammates was a starting center back for Amherst...

[D3Coach]

Had a conversation with my son, who is a junior, about playing Amherst at Amherst.  This is something he has now done 3 times in 3 seasons (2019 regular season and NESCAC tournament, and 2021 NCAA tournament).  I said something about how hopefully all his future games against Amherst would be at home.  His response"  "I love playing them here.  The atmosphere gets me so focused and ready to play."  I think it is possbile both to dislike Amherst for how they play and go about their business and at the same time respect the rivalry and enjoy the high level competition that it brings.

Yup.  This.

I don't win often at Amherst, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis.

Having coached against them in close games, all losses and every loss bitter... nothing but respect for the serial winning Serpone and Amherst have had in the toughest D3 conference in the country with a bullseye on their backs every game.  It's intense yea, but I marvel at it.  Only thing that matters to him is the respect his players have in themselves, their teammates and the opponent they give their best shot to.  All the other stuff that's been said or written is probably by design/he and they simply don't care.  Rarified air. 

Switching gears, if there's never been a better time to face tufts in recent memory (fool's gold, that statement), it'll be of intrigue to this former Bobcat if Bates can kick on from points vs Hamilton and Wes on the road to 3pts v Tufts at home.  Id expect that field to be torrid and the tussle come down to capitalizing on tough bounces.

Absolute crazy depth in the league this season per where Tufts, Amherst, Conn currently sit. 

[camosfan]

I will say this for NESCAC but it may be useful in other conferences also, start getting familiar with the various tiebreakers!

[Mr.Right]

NESCAC Mid-Season Review (part 3)

Middlebury


Highlight game of the season
While its hard not to choose two NCAA Elite 8 revenge games from the first half of the season, I will go with Wesleyan over Colby 4-3.  This game featured a "coming out party" for Wesleyan's offense as they generated an unreal 15 shots on net but needed 2 goals in the last 15 minutes to prevail.  On offensive explosion, a rarity in the NESCAC. First time they have scored 4 goals in a conference game since 2017

You cannot let homophobic tropes go and just let them sit out there. I'll clean it up no worries. I haven't been on here, but the air quotes are a shot at me and obviously this is a quick hit and old stereotype for Wesleyan that is just not relevant these days. Cheap stuff especially since I have been open with who I am, but we have no idea who this person is. I personally could care less to speculate. You have to condemn this stuff as minor as it is. Homophobia, antisemitism and flat out "white trash" racism are all on the rise and you have to call it out when seen.

https://tripod.domains.trincoll.edu/news/heinous-anti-semitic-act-at-trinity-college%ef%bf%bc/

https://www.iberkshires.com/story/69683/Extremist-Graffiti-Found-on-Williams-College-Monument.html

OK done with that. Next topic I want to discuss is

[paclassic89]

 

[Mr.Right]

Could chat for hours and maybe someday we'll get the pleasure, but I would say:  "we don't get them for very long or with very much continuity."

THIS.....Are you saying you are stuck with what you recruited? Actually, you are stuck with it, but no one can change? improve? learn? This is like why bother at all...Why even bother to try and play futbol? So, take the easy way out and BLAST and PRESS because these kids are too conditioned to play a certain way... Why wake up in the morning?  This just feels like a cop out to go the easy route. .Easy Wins, no one learns anything, blast and press, press and blast, but the HC can at least avoid getting fired. BTW I agree with your whole assessment I am not picking on you but agreeing with you in an a-hole kind of way because that is exactly what has been happening for the last 5-10 years.

Next....

[Mr.Right]

Unbelievably sad and tragic news on the South Shore of Massachusetts.  Scott Greenwood, two-time national title GK at Tufts (2014 and 2016) passed away a few days ago.  Sincerest condolesences to his family, friends, and all those affiliated with Tufts and the Tufts men's soccer program.  Scott was an incredible GK and huge key in putting Tufts soccer where it is today.

Jesus I just saw this...I am sorry I was reading from front to back so I would have posted about this first. This is just tragic and my condolences to his whole family including Tufts Men's Soccer. I liked him as a GK because he was a tough kid and not afraid to make saves. He was a quintessential shot stopper as a GK and ranked in my Top3 GK of the 2010-2020 decade.