WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[RogK]

GoPerry, maybe I can persuade you to accept the NC players' individual stats as they are, without inflating or deflating them. These three players play only 16-20 minutes per game, so they're quite productive in that time. I would not suggest that we project what they might do in 30 or 35 minutes per game, which would be artificially inflating their value. On the other hand, if you want to consider that, due to the fast pace, they are already playing 25 or 30 minutes' worth of possessions, OK. But, then you still should accept their stats as they are.
I thought about Lawson and Meacham. Meacham is one of my favorites to watch, but her production has been down some this season. She did recently have an excellent 26 pt game, including 8/13 threes. Lawson hasn't shot a good pct, but is a fine all-around player. Both of them also get credit for a portion of Wheaton's overall fine defense.
Those two, Gilbert and some others like NP's Kruckman and EC's Jones would easily warrant inclusion. Fifteen all-conf spots are never enough, are they?

[iwu70]

RogerK, I could go with your All-CCIW slate, no debating. 

Looks about right to me.

I do hope Mia Smith is honored as this has been a particularly amazing year in coaching the young Titans to a share of the CCIW championship.  I just think she really deserves it for the job she's done.  Rarely will you see a team that is challenged in many ways, with poor shooting and overall some pretty weak stats, still win a conference title.  I attribute a lot of that to coaching and good strategy, scouting etc.  The Titans were surely not the most talented team this year, but they were perhaps one of the toughest as a team to beat.  They found a way.  To get to 10-3 and share the title, we'll, pretty amazing coaching, me thinks.  Of course, tremendous effort by the Titan players too -- esp. with the run and jump, pressure defense pretty much all 40 minutes.  Ehresman had a great year, over all.   

IWU'70

[GoPerry]

GoPerry, maybe I can persuade you to accept the NC players' individual stats as they are, without inflating or deflating them. These three players play only 16-20 minutes per game, so they're quite productive in that time. I would not suggest that we project what they might do in 30 or 35 minutes per game, which would be artificially inflating their value. On the other hand, if you want to consider that, due to the fast pace, they are already playing 25 or 30 minutes' worth of possessions, OK. But, then you still should accept their stats as they are.
I thought about Lawson and Meacham. Meacham is one of my favorites to watch, but her production has been down some this season. She did recently have an excellent 26 pt game, including 8/13 threes. Lawson hasn't shot a good pct, but is a fine all-around player. Both of them also get credit for a portion of Wheaton's overall fine defense.
Those two, Gilbert and some others like NP's Kruckman and EC's Jones would easily warrant inclusion. Fifteen all-conf spots are never enough, are they?

Fair point on NCC reduced minutes.  My point has more to do with the challenge of comparing team(and thereby player) stats for a system style vs 'traditional' (however you may define that). But I'm not the one needing persuading- it's the coaches.

I agree that Chantal Meachem has not been quite as lethal from beyond the arc as last season.  She and Lawson would be the only candidates to receive consideration if Wheaton were to get an additonal .946 players as your calculus possibly suggests(only a guideline of course).

Also, I'm not sure how the coaches could vote Bailey Gilbert as Newcomer of the Year and not include her on the All conf team in addition to or instead of  IWU's Maddie Merritt, another newcomer.  Merritt might end up getting the Newcomer based on IWU's conference finish although I really do think Gilbert deserves recognition of some kind.  But both have 3 more years.

[RogK]

GoPerry, I definitely had in mind that it would be somewhat irrational to have Gilbert as Newcomer, but not among the 15. But I think it is a way to honor 16 players instead of 15.
As you noted/implied, Merritt and Gilbert each look like certain stars for the upcoming years (although there's no guarantee of course). Merritt is very good at earning FTs, which should help her advance among the league scoring leaders.
I agree also that North Central team stats have to be interpreted based on the fact that their games feature many more possessions (40% more?) than those of other teams. Their 93 pt scoring avg in CCIW play doesn't necessarily mean that their offense is the best, nor does their opponent avg of 88 necessarily equate with being the worst defense.
Points scored or allowed per possession seems the best measure. Unfortunately we don't have those numbers. And I think a possession continues until one starts for the other team. Other people would say that a new possession begins with an offensive rebound. This distinction would skew the "points per possession" stat one way or the other.
Yes, my formula does say Wheaton deserves 3 all-conf players; just couldn't narrow it down for the 3rd. I'd have no objection to Lawson or Meacham (not Meachem).
From what I've heard, coaches strategize regarding how many of their players to nominate, as well as when to nominate them during the voting process. If you don't nominate someone, she won't get chosen, but if you nominate too many, votes may spread too thin.

[RogK]

The prior match-ups of Friday's CCIW playoffs were all won by the home teams.
Jan 16 : Wheaton 50 at Elmhurst 60;  North Central 66 at Illinois Wesleyan 78.
Feb 6 : Elmhurst 43 at Wheaton 65;  Illinois Wesleyan 81 at North Central 87.
In the Elmhurst win, Elmhurst trailed 35-24 at halftime and won the 2nd half 36-15. Hannah Henderson had 5 of her 6 steals in the 2nd half.
In the Wheaton win, Wheaton dominated the 2nd and 3rd Qs by a 35-12 sum. Hannah Considine had 16 pts, 17 rebs.
North Central committed 42 TOs in their loss and 21 in their win. They made 16 2FGs and 7 FTs in each game. NC made 16 threes in their win.
Illinois Wesleyan's scoring was almost identical in each game : 2FGs 26 and 28, 3FGs 3 and 3, FTs 17 and 16. Alina Lehocky and Amanda Kelly did really well in both games.
Based on all this, we can conclude, uhh...

[GoPerry]

I'm not sure what it'll take to get Wheaton ranked ahead of any of 4 WIAC schools including one that's lost their last 3 games. All 4 teams are playing each other in the tourney but it still indicates to me that Wheaton has to win the AQ or they'll still be ranked behind them and be bubble at best for a Pool C.  A little frustrating to say the least.

The RR are shaping up for possibly 4 WIAC teams to make the tourney.  I wonder how many times 4 teams from a single conference has gotten in, men or women?  I would guess it hasn't happened yet.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I'm not sure what it'll take to get Wheaton ranked ahead of any of 4 WIAC schools including one that's lost their last 3 games. All 4 teams are playing each other in the tourney but it still indicates to me that Wheaton has to win the AQ or they'll still be ranked behind them and be bubble at best for a Pool C.  A little frustrating to say the least.

The RR are shaping up for possibly 4 WIAC teams to make the tourney.  I wonder how many times 4 teams from a single conference has gotten in, men or women?  I would guess it hasn't happened yet.

More than you think.

NESCAC in MBB last year; NEWMAC in MBB the year before that; ODAC MBB did it the year before that ('13).

I believe it has happened in WBB and I think the NESCAC and UAA are the likely sources to look for that accomplishment, but I don't have the women's four-team achievements off the top of my head.

[lmitzel]

The prior match-ups of Friday's CCIW playoffs were all won by the home teams.
Jan 16 : Wheaton 50 at Elmhurst 60;  North Central 66 at Illinois Wesleyan 78.
Feb 6 : Elmhurst 43 at Wheaton 65;  Illinois Wesleyan 81 at North Central 87.
In the Elmhurst win, Elmhurst trailed 35-24 at halftime and won the 2nd half 36-15. Hannah Henderson had 5 of her 6 steals in the 2nd half.
In the Wheaton win, Wheaton dominated the 2nd and 3rd Qs by a 35-12 sum. Hannah Considine had 16 pts, 17 rebs.
North Central committed 42 TOs in their loss and 21 in their win. They made 16 2FGs and 7 FTs in each game. NC made 16 threes in their win.
Illinois Wesleyan's scoring was almost identical in each game : 2FGs 26 and 28, 3FGs 3 and 3, FTs 17 and 16. Alina Lehocky and Amanda Kelly did really well in both games.
Based on all this, we can conclude, uhh...

At least for the NCC-IWU semi, how well NCC takes care of the ball is the biggest key in my mind. It amazed me in the game in Naperville just how good the Titans are with their hands on defense. They were picking pockets almost at will, and I can see how they forced 42 turnovers at home. At a neutral site, it should be interesting.

My money's on Wheaton in the second semi but I'm only basing that on history; no #4 seed has ever won a game in the CCIW Tournament. It's bound to happen at some point, and it could happen this year, but it's hard to say.

[RogK]

Yeah, Wheaton hasn't lost at King Arena (vs Hope) since about three weeks after the World Series ended. Coach Madsen won't take anything for granted, either.
But, any of these teams, playing at its best, has a fair chance.
I think I'll be viewing the games at home, while consuming most of a 14" green pepper pizza.
Good luck to all and no injuries allowed.

[GoPerry]

Wheaton vs Elmhurst tonight at King Arena.  The post-season is here and the Lady Thunder need to understand that each game is an elimination game for them and must play with the win or go home mindset.  Katie McDaniels can't do it on her own so key to their success will be getting consistent performances from Hannah Considine and Chantal Meacham, both seasoned upperclassman who, must lead the younger Lawson, Kyler, Bremhorst, Berg, Dansdill.

[RogK]

I wonder if any adjustment will be made for 2016-17 all-conference honors. The addition of Carroll (9th CCIW team) will make it tough for many teams to get more than one player on the 15 positions that currently exist. I wouldn't advocate expanding the 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams or adding a 4th. But maybe an honorable mention category would be good.
I don't particularly like how the UAA puts 7 or 8 on their 1st and 2nd teams (no 3rd). But I like their honorable mention category.
What do you think, anyone?

[GoPerry]

All Conference team is out. 

Congrats to Jr Katie McDaniels on her Most Outstanding Player award and her 3rd straight All Conf recognition. Also to Sr Hannah Considine for her 2nd straight All-Conf nod (1st team last year along with 2013 Newcomer) and Kelly Lawson on 3rd team.

Nothing particularly shocking in my mind.

McDaniels MOP,  Smith/Madsen Co-COY, Gilbert - Newcomer

Out of 15 spots, only 4 seniors- none on 1st team.   On the men's side, 10/16 are seniors.

[RogK]

Here are the results, all deserving without question-- alphabetical as shown on cciw.org
1st : R Ehresman, M Eppard, M Harris, K McDaniels, L Rehberger
2nd : H Considine, M McGraw, M Pezzopane, A Saklak, M Whipple
3rd : J Cuny, B Gilbert, K Jones, K Lawson, S Roman
Also see GoPerry's above post.

[iwu70]

IWU over NCC in the first semi -- 96-84.  Titans have developed lots of weapons.

McGraw 25
Ehresman 16 and 12
Weber 7 and 10
Kelly 12 and 7 assists
Merritt 13 (sorry she didn't get some All-Conference recognition)
Holness 10

Tops for NCC Whipple with 19

NCC made 12 treys -- about their average.  IWU didn't make a single 3, always attacking the basket.  One of the few games where the differential in TOs was not so great.  IWU beating the System, taking the rubber match for the season. 

On to the final, on to the AQ -- likely vs. WC.

IWU'70

[iwu70]

Congrats to Coach Smith and all the Titans on a great season, a CCIW championship, so far!  Keep going.

And, warm congrats to Coach Smith on Coach of the Year.  I think this is right.  Also, congrats to the WC Coach Madsen on his honor, recognition.  Both very deserving this season.

Very happy for Ehresman and McGraw on 1st and 2nd teams respectively, for All-CCIW honors.  Congrats to them and all the other honorees.  Great job all.

IWU'70