WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I agree - thanks Greg for inserting some reality into this. I for one have no reason to go rewatch the game to offer specifics on wrong calls in either direction. As you stated, they go both ways and the teams ultimately decided the game.

The sorriest part of this entire thing is that Enginerd isn’t even a CCIW fan, rather an RHIT fan who is still upset about some calls in a pre-conference game versus Hope from 3 seasons ago (and I believe had a daughter on the RHIT team at the time). His comments about the Hope program, AD, and more are over the top and ignorant.

Apologies to all the CCIW posters for this getting dragged out here. Nothing but respect for IWU, Coach Smith, and the CCIW.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

FYI on officials - the basics I've been told is the assignor (not sure on the women's side, but the men's side all games are assigned by the DIII head of officiating; just not sure women have gotten to that point as of yet) checks to see if the officials have called a game involving that school in at least the previous TWO seasons. If they have, they are not on the call. That will hold true as well in the tournament as officials move forward ... they won't be assigned to teams they have already called.

Sager earlier said "not from the conference of the team playing." That isn't as cut-and-dry as it used to be simply because more and more conferences are going with the same assignor. Here in the Mid-Atlantic, there is one assignor now for about six or more conferences. As a result, there is more diversity during the season with officials traveling a little further but especially not in the same gyms or calling the same teams all that often (though, it does happen a little more often when there are a lot of games at the end of the season).

You can complain about officials all you want, but I am telling you (a) they aren't associated with the teams, the school, the town, etc. and (b) I doubt many of you have tried to do their jobs or would want to. Calls may not go everyone's way, but I always try and be fair. Also (and people have heard me say this a lot) ... teams have to adjust to officiating. If you can't adjust to how the game is being called (and I get inconsistency can make that difficult), the problem isn't the officials.

[GoPerry]

I agree - thanks Greg for inserting some reality into this. I for one have no reason to go rewatch the game to offer specifics on wrong calls in either direction. As you stated, they go both ways and the teams ultimately decided the game.

The sorriest part of this entire thing is that Enginerd isn't even a CCIW fan, rather an RHIT fan who is still upset about some calls in a pre-conference game versus Hope from 3 seasons ago (and I believe had a daughter on the RHIT team at the time). His comments about the Hope program, AD, and more are over the top and ignorant.

Apologies to all the CCIW posters for this getting dragged out here. Nothing but respect for IWU, Coach Smith, and the CCIW.

Our board's been hijacked!! Can we have it back please . . .   

Actually, the more the merrier.  Kind of entertaining since the CCIW season is over  . . .

[RogK]

From what I can find (with minimal effort), it appears that legal sports wagering in Illinois excludes Illinois college teams and younger teams. That's good, in my view. We don't need unsavory types attempting to influence those athletes, refs or coaches.
An excerpt from the Sports Wagering Act : (note items d and h)
(230 ILCS 45/25-25)
    Sec. 25-25. Sports wagering authorized.
    (a) Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, the operation of sports wagering is only lawful when conducted in accordance with the provisions of this Act and the rules of the Illinois Gaming Board and the Department of the Lottery.
    (b) A person placing a wager under this Act shall be at least 21 years of age.
    (c) A licensee under this Act may not accept a wager on a minor league sports event.
    (d) A licensee under this Act may not accept a wager for a sports event involving an Illinois collegiate team.
    (e) A licensee under this Act may only accept a wager from a person physically located in the State.
    (f) Master sports wagering licensees may use any data source for determining the results of all tier 1 sports wagers.
    (g) A sports governing body headquartered in the United States may notify the Board that it desires to supply official league data to master sports wagering licensees for determining the results of tier 2 sports wagers. Such notification shall be made in the form and manner as the Board may require. If a sports governing body does not notify the Board of its desire to supply official league data, a master sports wagering licensee may use any data source for determining the results of any and all tier 2 sports wagers on sports contests for that sports governing body.
    Within 30 days of a sports governing body notifying the Board, master sports wagering licensees shall use only official league data to determine the results of tier 2 sports wagers on sports events sanctioned by that sports governing body, unless: (1) the sports governing body or designee cannot provide a feed of official league data to determine the results of a particular type of tier 2 sports wager, in which case master sports wagering licensees may use any data source for determining the results of the applicable tier 2 sports wager until such time as such data feed becomes available on commercially reasonable terms; or (2) a master sports wagering licensee can demonstrate to the Board that the sports governing body or its designee cannot provide a feed of official league data to the master sports wagering licensee on commercially reasonable terms. During the pendency of the Board's determination, such master sports wagering licensee may use any data source for determining the results of any and all tier 2 sports wagers.
    (h) A licensee under this Act may not accept wagers on a kindergarten through 12th grade sports event.
- -
I suppose it's possible to bet on Carroll vs Carthage? Not sure about that, nor am I interested in engaging in any sports wagering. I wonder if other states allow betting on Illinois college teams. Hopefully D3 is sufficiently under the radar so that it doesn't attract interest from bettors.

[Dutchfan]

I will say this again, as a Hope fan who was at the game, I felt the officials made some bad calls that benefitted IWU, and that INCLUDES in the last 4-5 minutes. One instance that immediately comes to mind in Sosa dribbling into one of the Hope defenders between the half-court line and the three point line and the Hope player getting called for a foul, even though Sosa bumped the Hope player. Another was a jump ball call under the IWU basket when Hope had clear possession and the IWU player touched the ball for less than one second. Need I go on?

My point is that fans almost always feel that their team got shafted by the refs. The reality is that the refs are doing their best and not being unfair to any one team. Yes, there are inevitably a few legitimately bad calls, but they almost universally go both ways fairly evenly. As fans we, myself included, always see the calls through rose colored glasses and not clear lenses. As fans we seem to always look for excuses for losing and place the blame where there is none to be placed.

Instead of focusing on what went wrong, focus on what benefitted you. Hope missed multiple open layups and Sosa shot 11-11 from the charity stripe. If Hope hade made those shots and Sosa shot for her average at the line Hope would've won by another 6-8 points. Hope's defense didn't play well but we got some very timely blocks. Without them we probably would've lost.

Or better yet, focus on what a great game it was. That was the type of game that basketball fans live for. This was probably the second best game I've ever been to at the DeVos. As a season ticket holder for over 25 years, that is a lot of games, both men's and women's. The best he I've been to at the DeVos? 2012 men's playoffs when IWU beat Hope in double overtime.

[GoPerry]

[
Kendall Sosa should receive plenty of AA consideration.  To me it's been somewhat amazing her emergence as a scorer this season which really came out of nowhere imho.  To wit:

2017-18:   13.0 mins/g; 55/144  38.2% FG;  23/59  38.9%   3FG; 40/45 89.1% FT;      6.0 pts/g
2018-17:   17.4 mins/g: 80/184  43.5% FG;  39/91  40.7%   3FG; 50/63 79.4% FT;      9.1 pts/g
2019-20:   31.5 mins/g: 206/447 46.1% FG: 71/183 38.8%  3FG: 102/120 85.0% FT:   20.9 pts/g *led the CCIW, unanimous First Team

Before the season began I'm not even sure green-eyed fans would've predicted this magnitude of production increase.  She was not on the All-Conference team last season but was a legit contender for MOP this season and you rarely see that.

A little more on the game itself (sorry to interrupt):

Sosa certainly helped her All Amer cause here on a bigger stage and platform.  A very impressive 32 pts yet again and she deserves a strong look among lots of great players.  However, scoring is far from the only criteria for All American recognition and it shouldn't be with all-around performance metrics being evaluated.  For Sosa she is obviously a tremendous scorer but is about average with regards to other non-scoring stat categories for guards like rebounds, assts, etc.  Not to say she isn't deserving.  But when compared to other probable candidates like DePauw's Kopp, Amherst Fox or Eck, UT-D Hughes (or Pena), Emmanuel's Ramirez-Tejeda (19.3 ppg, 12.0 rpg!) and others, her overall #s aren't quite on same level.

It will be very interesting to see how HOPE handles IWU's pressure and pace. 

IWU'70

I've not seen Hope play much but a 28-0 team of their pedigree is just not going to have trouble breaking a press . . .

It was smart of Mia Smith to abandon the press once Hope quickly demonstrated they would break it easily.  At times this season I think she has stuck to it a little too long when it wasn't working.  Going to the zone was a great move and I was surprised at how much difficulty it gave the Dutch.  Only a few times were they able to go into Voskuil or Thomas down low and some of their entry passing was weak.

As others have said, it was a great D3 ball game.  The back and forth was particularly compelling. To their credit, IWU simply would not buckle throughout the game until some small mistakes and some huge shots by Newman/Schoonveld by the Flying Dutch got them over the top at the very end.  It surely stings but Titans have everything to be proud of.

[RogK]

Wheaton question for GoPerry or anyone else who knows:
Do we know with certainty whether or not Kirsten Madsen will play next season?
She was listed as a senior this season, but has played three years, not four. Roster-wise she was never a junior.
Thanks in advance for the reply.

[GoPerry]

Wheaton question for GoPerry or anyone else who knows:
Do we know with certainty whether or not Kirsten Madsen will play next season?
She was listed as a senior this season, but has played three years, not four. Roster-wise she was never a junior.
Thanks in advance for the reply.

She is a senior academically and will be graduating in May.  While she has a year of eligibility left, she and her parents were willing participants on senior night.  Secondary Ed major I believe.  I rather doubt she will hang out to play another year.

[RogK]

Congrats to the two CCIW WBB players honored as CoSIDA Academic All Americans :
2nd team - Hannah Frazier (repeating last season's honor)
3rd team - Sammie Woodward
Nice work, each of ya!

[GoPerry]

Wheaton the latest  to suspend geo-physical instruction and go exclusively on-line/virtual instruction for remainder of semester.  Asking students to remain at home or return home after Spr Brk.

This is no doubt difficult news for Hannah Frazier and all seniors looking forward to completing their studies alongside their classmates and teammates.

[Jester1390]

University of Minnesota just shut down to only on line classes.   I have to say I understand the bug is very contagious but the one sector it doesn't apparently have much effect on is young people and children. In the words of FDR. All we have to fear is fear itself. 

[AndOne]

Egads man! Who told you that?
The virus can have a HUGE effect on children as well as the elderly, and anyone with a compromised immune system such as transplant patients or those with autoimmune deficiencies. Strong young adults are probably the least susceptible to the effects but for the above mentioned groups catching the Coronavirus could easily prove fatal.
In this case, we unfortunately have much more to fear than fear itself. 

[GoPerry]

University of Minnesota just shut down to only on line classes.   I have to say I understand the bug is very contagious but the one sector it doesn't apparently have much effect on is young people and children. In the words of FDR. All we have to fear is fear itself.

It can most definitely affect young people and children but the risk of serious or fatal results from the virus is certainly greatest for the elderly or those with immune system impairment.

In Wheaton's context, which applies to many other schools, it's not just students to consider.  There are plenty of staff, of all age ranges, that must be on campus to serve 2400 students and their safety must be considered by administrators as well.

Furthermore, if a student shows symptoms and then tests positive for the virus then they would have to be quarantined.  Doing this for three or four students in the dorm room might be possible. But no CCIW school or small liberal arts colleges would be capable of properly quarantining large amounts of students and do so effectively.  They wouldn't want to try because by then, you can't send students home - it's too late.

It is still a sticky situation because Wheaton is already on Spring Break.  So you have to let students back on campus for a day to collect belongings before returning home.  But also, Wheaton has international students, missionary kids, some from China, who can't return to their country.  So you need to house and feed them.

[Jester1390]

Let me clairify I was referring the risk to children and young adults is verily low.  They have greater risks to flu and other strains. That's all  the swine flue also called h1n1 killed 11 thousand Americans.  Way more then what is currently happening and itthat affected all age groups but during that time we didn't shut down America. More people will be affected by the economy tanking then ever we're going to be hurt by the bug  I'm52 I know my risk is higher with particular bug  you have to be smart but you always need or be smart when it comes to bugs

[Jester1390]

Rose hulman just shut down school. On line classes to start mar23rd