WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg, I will respectfully disagree.  Some of the coaches and long-time fans will certainly recall that traditionally Wheaton and Millikin are 'Queens of the Hill', but for the players IWU has been on top their entire careers.  For players I suspect that is dynasty enough.

[Backseat Driver]

I'm with Greg on this one. Every team in the league has the conference championship as it's goal, and at the very least wants to be in the top four. That doesn't change regardless of who the top dog is. Sure, IWU's recent success adds significance since every team knows playing the Titans is a big game, but I don't think "payback" is really part of the equation. Teams are focused on this season, not the last four.

[Gregory Sager]

Teams are focused on this season, not the last four.

Precisely.

If anybody's got a bulls-eye on his back this year -- and I'm not altogether sure that any one coach really does -- it could be Tim Bernero. People really shouldn't give the preseason poll that much credence, but, nevertheless, they do.

[RogK]

A number of CCIW coaches definitely would derive a little extra pleasure from a win over IWU, compared to a win over other schools. But, most of the league will not be gaining victories over the Titans this year anyway; they're still pretty good. And hardly anyone in the conference has the talent to beat them soundly (by 25 or 30).

[Gregory Sager]

Rog, there's a vast difference between deriving extra pleasure from beating Illinois Wesleyan and contemplating "payback time" vis-a-vis the Titans right now in the preseason, when every coach in the league is focused upon her or his team and how it will perform over the course of the season.

I just think that Chuck is flattering his alma mater's program too much by implying that it's in the forefront of the minds of the other seven head coaches, their assistants, and their players on October 27. I think that I know enough about this league to be confident that everyone else is concerned with their own business and their own seasonal expectations at this point.

[RogK]

There is quite a bit of optimism around the league, as evidenced by the coaches' comments this morning. Replay available here :
http://www.cciw.org/sports/2011/10/13/WBB_1013112928.aspx?id=698
And several coaches indicate a wish to play a higher tempo game this season. That I won't believe until I see more scores in the 80s and up.

[Gregory Sager]

All you need to know is the fact that in the chat every single coach but one brought up the word "defense" to know that it's going to be the same ol' grind-it-out, scores-in-the-50's-and-60's, Rog-hates-it style of CCIW ball that it's always been.

[Backseat Driver]

And I'm sure Rog isn't thrilled that last year's National Championship game was won 64-55 by Amherst, thus legitimizing the "defense-wins-championships" approach of the CCIW coaches. 

[RogK]

Amherst averaged 77.2 for the season, hardly a slow-it-down style. They averaged a steal every three minutes.
Incidentally, shall I list all the grind-it-out teams that did not win the national championship?
Can we agree that the entire purpose of defense is to regain possession of the ball, having allowed the opposition to score 0 (preferably) or 1 point ?
It is equally good to get the ball back within 3 seconds via a steal in a press or within 29 or 55 seconds via a defensive rebound. What you do with the ball on offense is a separate issue.
In recent memory, IWU has played the fastest style in the league, simultaneously playing very good defense, but certainly not in a grind-it-out manner. Conversely, just because a team plays slow offense does not make it a good defensive team.
Many people still judge a basketball team's defense by Opponent's Scoring Avg or perhaps Opponent's FG pct, both of which are not anywhere near the whole story.
Opponents Scoring average is nearly as much a by-product of how fast you play offense as it is of how good your defense is.
Opponent's FG pct does not take into consideration how many turnovers are induced by the defense. To be analytically useful, FG pcts must be separated into 2FG pct and 3FG pct -- then you can get a better understanding of what's happening. But, don't forget turnovers.
By far the best measure of a basketball offense or defense is Points Per Possession. Too bad its not in the box scores.
Sorry to bring them up again, but the NAIA Olivet Nazarene women almost always give up a higher FG pct than they shoot, even when winning (which they usually do). ONU also gives up around 85 points per game, yet no one who has ever played them would say that they relax on defense. Quite the opposite.
To state the obvious, you win by scoring more than the other team. You can win 48-44, 64-55 or 102-91.
When the 1981-82 Denver Nuggets set the NBA record scoring at 126.5 per game, they gave up 126.0 (46-36 W-L), a reporter suggested to head coach Doug Moe that his team had the worst defense in the NBA, to which Moe replied, "yeah, except for the rest of league when they play us."

[Backseat Driver]

Amherst averaged 77.2 for the season, hardly a slow-it-down style. They averaged a steal every three minutes.
Incidentally, shall I list all the grind-it-out teams that did not win the national championship?

I only mentioned that particular score because it was in the 50s-60s range and since it was the championship game I could throw in a "defense-wins-championships" reference.  I wasn't trying to comment on Amherst's overall style, of which I know nothing about.

[RogK]

Backseat Driver, ya mean ya weren't trying to provoke me into lengthy ramblings? (ha) I've given you your first karma point!
In my wonderfully profound discussion of statistics, I neglected to mention free throws. Oops.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Rog, there's a vast difference between deriving extra pleasure from beating Illinois Wesleyan and contemplating "payback time" vis-a-vis the Titans right now in the preseason, when every coach in the league is focused upon her or his team and how it will perform over the course of the season.

I just think that Chuck is flattering his alma mater's program too much by implying that it's in the forefront of the minds of the other seven head coaches, their assistants, and their players on October 27. I think that I know enough about this league to be confident that everyone else is concerned with their own business and their own seasonal expectations at this point.

I didn't mean to imply what has been highlighted above.  But as the Titan games approach, I would anticipate a bit of extra motivation (and I would certainly not be surprised if many players around the league already have those dates, probably among some others, circled on their calendars).

[Backseat Driver]

Backseat Driver, ya mean ya weren't trying to provoke me into lengthy ramblings? (ha) I've given you your first karma point!
In my wonderfully profound discussion of statistics, I neglected to mention free throws. Oops.

I got so lost in your poetic statistical analysis that I didn't even notice.

Thanks for the karma point, although as a Wheaton grad I'm not supposed to put much stock in karma 

[RogK]

Aha, so you have revealed yourself (a little)!
I suspected a Wheaton connection when you (accurately) pointed out the importance of Bowen and Brooks in a recent post. Anyway, I hope you stick around and contribute a lot. Your writing is very coherent and your viewpoint is interesting.
The Thunder will be fun to watch again this year, with an excellent core of talented players. If they can solve the issues of rebounding and interior defense, they'll be very strong. That's still an "if" though. Some of the bigger newcomers may be able to help.

[Titan Q]

For anyone who is not aware of what Mia Smith has been dealing with off the court...

http://wjbc.com/cancer-doesnt-slow-illinois-wesleyan-coach-mia-smith/