WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[RogK]

When CCIW coaches schedule their 11 nonconference games, are they required to include a certain minimum of in-region NCAA opponents? If not required, is there incentive to do so? Are they required to devote a certain minimum of those 11 games to D3 opponents, in-region or not? Thanks.

[Gregory Sager]

When CCIW coaches schedule their 11 nonconference games, are they required to include a certain minimum of in-region NCAA opponents? If not required, is there incentive to do so? Are they required to devote a certain minimum of those 11 games to D3 opponents, in-region or not? Thanks.

No, they're not required by the NCAA to do anything other than play at least half of their games against D3 opponents in order to be eligible fo rthe D3 tourney -- which the CCIW slate takes care of all by itself.

However, starting next season, D3 men's basketball is going to count all games played against D3 competition, not just the in-region games, towards the primary criteria. The countervailing requirement, though, is that each school will be required to play at least 70% of its regular-season games against in-region competition, in order to conform to D3's mission to emphasize local competition. That new rule may apply to women's basketball as well ... I'm not sure about that, as I don't follow the Multi-Regional Topics discussions of women's basketball the way that I do on the men's side. I pretty much stick to the CCIW room when it comes to women's basketball.

[Backseat Driver]

I disagree that IWU 'definitely' needs to win the AQ.  Probably, yes; definitely, no.  Don't forget that their loss to Olivet Nazarene doesn't count in the eyes of the committee.  Their losses are certainly not 'bad' losses: 23-0 Depauw, 19-3 Wheaton (twice), 19-4 Carthage, 18-5 Mount Union, and 18-5 UWSP.  And their wins are not all 'gimmes': 19-4 Carthage, 18-5 UWW, 14-9 Wartburg, 12-11 Coe, and twice each 13-10 North Park and 12-11 North Central.

I certainly would not want to rely on a Pool C, but I do not think it is beyond question.

(And maybe, just maybe, a defending national champion gets the benefit of the doubt on close calls! )

Maybe "definitely" is too strong, since a lot can happen between now and the end of conference tournaments. But I think it'll be pretty tough to get a resume on the table with 8 losses.

Six losses. As Chuck said, the OliNaz loss is practically irrelevant in the eyes of the committee, just as is Wesleyan's win over St. Francis and Wheaton's wins over Clarke and Robert Morris. But remember, too, that Wesleyan's loss to Mount Union and win over Muskingum, even though those were games against fellow D3 schools rather than NAIA foes, were non-regional and thus not a part of the primary criteria.

People tend to refer to a team's overall record out of force of habit when looking at post-season possibilities, which is understandable. But that's not how it works in D3. The won-lost record that you need to focus upon is in-region record. Currently, as indicated in thunder38's listing of the new Central Region rankings, Carthage is 17-4 (.809). Wheaton currently sits at 18-3 (.857), and Wesleyan is 14-5 (.737).

You're right, that would probably fall into the "lazy post" category on my part.

It would probably be best if people like me, who don't know all the inner workings of the selection process, refrained from posting about such things

[Titan Q]

You're right, that would probably fall into the "lazy post" category on my part.

It would probably be best if people like me, who don't know all the inner workings of the selection process, refrained from posting about such things

As the head of the lazy posting police, I think you are in the clear here. 

- A lazy post would be, "Anyone know IWU's record?" 

- Not knowing the ins and outs of the NCAA Division III tournament selection process is completely understandable and something you become familiar with over time.

You're good.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Anyone know IWU's record?

(Sorry, Bob - the devil made me do it! )

Though I confess that even after years of dissecting Pool C chances, I totally overlooked that the Mt. Union loss would be non-regional, and only mentioned ONU.

[Titan Q]

Here is how the Central region stacks up, with IWU's and Wheaton's numbers included below...

Central (2/13 ranking)
1 Cornell 20-1 (.952)/.485/2-0
2 Washington U. 17-3 (.850)/ .554/2-2
3 UW-Whitewater 16-4 (.800)/.574/3-2
4 UW-Oshkosh 16-4 (.800)/.552/3-2
5 Carthage 17-4 (.810)/.536/0-1
6 UW-Superior 17-5 (.773)/.540/2-2
7 Monmouth 17-4 (.810)/.504/1-2
8 UW-Stevens Point 17-5 (.773)/.539/1-4
----------
  Wheaton 18-3 (.857)/.479/0-2
  Illinois Wesleyan 14-5 (.737)/.580/2-3


Wheaton and IWU are both very close to being regionally ranked as I see it - Wheaton being first in line via the sweep of IWU.  But let's say one sneaks into the regional ranking at some point before the selection process (which I think is very possible).  The problem is all of the Pool C candidates from the Central region that will be ahead of Wheaton/IWU.  Potentially...

- Wash U
- WIAC 1
- WIAC 2
- WIAC 3 or Monmouth

So potentially 4 Pool C's from the region would have to be selected before that CCIW team could even get on the board for evaluation/discussion.  I just don't see it.  And if you're IWU, stuck behind Wheaton most likely, I think you have to assume that there just isn't a reasonable path to Pool C.

Carthage isn't even in a very comfortable spot.  If the Lady Reds lose @ Wheaton, and then lose in the conference tournament - even in the title game Saturday - they could end up buried behind the same teams I mention above.

I think all 4 teams that play in the conference tournament will need to go in assuming they need to win it to make the NCAA tournament.

[iwu70]

Yup, AQ required.  Q is right, never lazy with his analysis.  CCIW tournament should be a good one, hard-fought.

Chuck, you are a devil.  Of course we all know that only Q appointed himself as "lazy poster policeman."

What a liberal arts education does to people . . .

IWU70

[iwu70]

Nice feature on the IWU sports website on senior Melissa Gardner, in the "Featured Titan" series. 

I knew Melissa was already the second most prolific trey shooter. in treys made, of all time at IWU.  She probably can't catch, I believe, Mallory Heydorn for #1, but wow what a career in shooting from downtown.  But, didn't realize that Melissa, when she plays the first game of the CCIW tournament will set the all-time record for games played in the IWU women's program, at 122 games.  That, my friends, is a lot of mileage.  She's at 119 now according to this piece.  Talk about longevity and durability . . . and top performance all the way along.

Congratulations to Melissa on the most durable and long-tenured career at IWU.  Quite an achievement, given the academic demands of IWU and the physical demands of DIII women's basketball these days, especially in the Mia Smith era of "run and jump."  My hat is off to Ms. Gardner.

IWU70

[RogK]

The January 19th scores from the initial meetings of tomorrow's matchups :
IWU over Millikin 72-67, NC over NP 102-101, EC over Augie 69-61, Carthage over Wheaton 68-36.
I think I'll go to the NP at NC game; I hope this time there will be a decent score, like both teams in the 120s. Ha.

[Gregory Sager]

Bite your tongue, Rog.

Actually, NPU should be more ready for the up-and-down-the-floor style of NCC's variation of the System. Now that Bridgette Gray is back in uniform and looks like she has her mobility back, NPU has three point guards rather than two. The extra ballhandler could make a big difference for the Vikings against the NCC press.

[Pat Coleman]

I disagree that IWU 'definitely' needs to win the AQ.  Probably, yes; definitely, no.  Don't forget that their loss to Olivet Nazarene doesn't count in the eyes of the committee.  Their losses are certainly not 'bad' losses: 23-0 Depauw, 19-3 Wheaton (twice), 19-4 Carthage, 18-5 Mount Union, and 18-5 UWSP.  And their wins are not all 'gimmes': 19-4 Carthage, 18-5 UWW, 14-9 Wartburg, 12-11 Coe, and twice each 13-10 North Park and 12-11 North Central.

I certainly would not want to rely on a Pool C, but I do not think it is beyond question.

(And maybe, just maybe, a defending national champion gets the benefit of the doubt on close calls! )

Maybe "definitely" is too strong, since a lot can happen between now and the end of conference tournaments. But I think it'll be pretty tough to get a resume on the table with 8 losses.

Six losses. As Chuck said, the OliNaz loss is practically irrelevant in the eyes of the committee, just as is Wesleyan's win over St. Francis and Wheaton's wins over Clarke and Robert Morris. But remember, too, that Wesleyan's loss to Mount Union and win over Muskingum, even though those were games against fellow D3 schools rather than NAIA foes, were non-regional and thus not a part of the primary criteria.

People tend to refer to a team's overall record out of force of habit when looking at post-season possibilities, which is understandable. But that's not how it works in D3. The won-lost record that you need to focus upon is in-region record. Currently, as indicated in thunder38's listing of the new Central Region rankings, Carthage is 17-4 (.809). Wheaton currently sits at 18-3 (.857), and Wesleyan is 14-5 (.737).

I think if we are talking about the selection chances of a team so far down the scale that they are not regionally ranked, then secondary criteria will most certainly be in play. Non-D3 games? Perhaps not, but overall D3 record will definitely be considered if IWU is to have a shot to get in.

[iwu70]

Good luck Titans.  Get the W on Senior night and send Melissa Gardner and Michelle Bilek out with a victory.

Congrats to Michelle and Melissa for superb IWU basketball careers.

IWU70

[Mr. Ypsi]

The January 19th scores from the initial meetings of tomorrow's matchups :
IWU over Millikin 72-67, NC over NP 102-101, EC over Augie 69-61, Carthage over Wheaton 68-36.
I think I'll go to the NP at NC game; I hope this time there will be a decent score, like both teams in the 120s. Ha.

Aha!  RogK has finally revealed himself as a secret Grinnell fan!

[Gregory Sager]

No, he's not a Grinnell men's fan, but we've all known for quite some time that he is an OliNaz women's fan.

[RogK]

I've seen Olivet Naz only twice this season, a 100-88 win at St Xavier and a 112-96 loss at Roosevelt (on the UIC campus, before Roosevelt's new gym opened). ONU is not doing as well this year, only 21-7. They are averaging 101.5, yielding 87.1.
I'm not so ardent a fan of theirs that I'd enjoy seeing them maul somebody by 50. I just like the never-a-dull-moment aspect of their way of playing, which exhibits their athleticism and brings out that of the opponents as well.
As for Grinnell, they've left a very sour taste in my mind during the last few years, beating the crap out of a poor opponent solely to set individual scoring and assist records. While those games were deviations from the "system," I don't see any excuse for abusing their most helpless opponent. I don't object to them trying to set individual scoring or assist records, just do it against a good team.
Getting back to CCIW WBB, this season I've been observing how North Central is learning the "system." I admire the substantial efforts of their players to adjust to a style that none of 'em ever saw before.