WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[RogK]

You're welcome, GoPerry. So, what do you foresee happening in Wheaton's game at Elmhurst on Saturday? I'll predict a 68-61 final, with either the home team or the visitors being victorious. Ha.

[GoPerry]

You're welcome, GoPerry. So, what do you foresee happening in Wheaton's game at Elmhurst on Saturday? I'll predict a 68-61 final, with either the home team or the visitors being victorious. Ha.

I'm expecting a better performance from the Thunder ladies than last year's visit to Faganel.  It was a very blah and generally forgettable game by Wheaton as they suffered one of their 3 conference losses.  Key of course will be keeping Eppard off the offensive glass as much as possible.  CCIW road games are always lose-able and this one is no different.  But I would expect the Thunder to win.  BlueJays are 6-0 but really haven't played anyone of caliber yet.

[RogK]

Setting aside the idea that the whole season is rigged (nyuk nyuk), it kind of looks like we could have parity (or parody) throughout much (6 teams?) of the CCIW conference play. I apologize for under-use of parentheses in that sentence.

[GoPerry]

Setting aside the idea that the whole season is rigged (nyuk nyuk), it kind of looks like we could have parity (or parody) throughout much (6 teams?) of the CCIW conference play. I apologize for under-use of parentheses in that sentence.

Well, I would still say(and really trying to be impartial) that Wheaton is the clear favorite and I believe the best team out of 9.  But they are a team that somewhat relies on the outside shot and if that's not going, they're vulnerable.  Also there are a lot of returning starters and underclassmen with playing experience on each team.  So I would agree there's likely more parity this year than in the past.  I'm not sure when was the last time there was an undefeated team in league play – but it won't happen this year.  I'm guessing 13-3 will be good enough for the #1 seed.

[Gregory Sager]

I'm not sure when was the last time there was an undefeated team in league play

It's happened twice:

1988: Augustana (16-0)
1998: Millikin (14-0)

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm not sure when was the last time there was an undefeated team in league play

It's happened twice:

1988: Augustana (16-0)
1998: Millikin (14-0)

Which is a LOT more recently than in MBB (1973 Augie and 1970 IWU).  Parity in WBB is definitely increasing, but Darryl Nestor's "How They Fared" still shows MUCH more red (losses) on the men's Top 25 report than the women's.  I suspect that is MOSTLY a reflection of the much shorter time that girls and women have taken bball seriously than boys and men - so far there still are simply not enough truly college-level skilled women's players to go around, so full-fledged 'beat-downs' are much more common with WBB than MBB.

[Gregory Sager]

No, I don't think it's that. The skill level of incoming freshmen is much better than it used to be, because more girls are picking up the sport at an early age and more of them are playing AAU ball. There's plenty of competent 17- and 18-year-old girls out there to be recruited if a coach puts in the time and effort on the trail that she or he ought to. I think it's much more a matter of institutional emphasis. There are a lot of schools that don't put much focus on women's sports, basketball included. They'll tolerate a bad coach much longer, they'll short-change the women's team's budget because they know that nobody's gonna file a Title IX complaint, they won't hire a full-time coach, they'll settle for inadequate recruiting and open-tryout signs in the dorms, etc.

It seems as though every school that has a men's basketball program busts its butt to have a good one. You don't nearly get that feeling when it comes to women's basketball programs. Hence, the disproportionate number of lopsided games and the relative lack of W-L parity.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, that's the other main culprit.  I suspect my culprit is even more important than yours (since the gap in red on "How They Fared" is definitely declining over the years), but I'm not really sure.  After all, the CCIW didn't even sponsor women's sports until the mid 80s, and if IWU had ANY women's intercollegiate sports in my day, I was unaware of them.  So the two culprits kinda go hand-in-hand.

The good news is that Title IX IS (gradually) making a huge difference.  A greater degree of parity in WBB is arriving.

Though as D3 football indicates, total parity is never a guarantee (or even likely).

[iwumichigander]

Yeah, that's the other main culprit.  I suspect my culprit is even more important than yours (since the gap in red on "How They Fared" is definitely declining over the years), but I'm not really sure.  After all, the CCIW didn't even sponsor women's sports until the mid 80s, and if IWU had ANY women's intercollegiate sports in my day, I was unaware of them.  So the two culprits kinda go hand-in-hand.

The good news is that Title IX IS (gradually) making a huge difference.  A greater degree of parity in WBB is arriving.

Though as D3 football indicates, total parity is never a guarantee (or even likely).

if IWU had any women in your day they would have been the swim or tennis teams.

[RogK]

I see no reason to assign much validity to Top 25 rankings (and premature Strengths of Schedule) this early in the season. And absolutely no value should be given to preseason polls, which should be burned once actual games begin. If preseason polls are treated as pre-positioning for subsequent rankings, these anointed teams are given a head start, potentially blocking fair consideration of everyone else.
Maybe we can simply accept the season as it unfolds. Sometimes, what seems like an "upset win" early in the year turns out in retrospect not to have been an upset at all.

[Gregory Sager]

Though as D3 football indicates, total parity is never a guarantee (or even likely).

Apples and oranges. Football is nothing like either men's or women's basketball in terms of relative competition.

[GoPerry]

I see no reason to assign much validity to Top 25 rankings (and premature Strengths of Schedule) this early in the season. And absolutely no value should be given to preseason polls, which should be burned once actual games begin. If preseason polls are treated as pre-positioning for subsequent rankings, these anointed teams are given a head start, potentially blocking fair consideration of everyone else.
Maybe we can simply accept the season as it unfolds. Sometimes, what seems like an "upset win" early in the year turns out in retrospect not to have been an upset at all.

Yes- really agree with that.  However, it seems to me that the voters who really matter - that being the regional committees in February - put in the effort necessary to drown out the noise with the criteria.  I think that bears itself out in the Pool C projections offered by Q and several other posters(not as much on the women's board unfortunately) where the departure from actual is only 1 or 2 teams.  I have to remind myself that the polls are really just for fan interest right?

To me, it's a bigger issue in football pre-season rankings in D1.  Didn't Notre Dame begin the season ranked in the top 10?  A good pre-season ranking gives teams a better chance to get into a better(higher paying) bowl game even if you end up with 3 losses.

[iwu70]

In a total track meet, IWU and NCC women tied at 104 after regulation.  Going to OT.  What a great game of women's CCIW roundball.

IWU'70

[iwu70]

Wow, great game.  Titans win!!! in OT, 118-113.  What a track meet.

McGraw with 37.  #3 Whipple on NCC is a fabulous player, scoring 29. 

Great win for the TITAN women, now 4-3, 1-0 on the year. 

One sad note, Gabrielle Holness was injured and did not return, likely a knee injury.  Not good.  Let's hope only a strain.

Congrats to both teams, a truly wonderful, entertaining D3 game.

IWU'70

[GoPerry]

Wheaton 71
Elmhurst 53

McDaniels, 27 pts on 11/14 FG, 6 rebs, 3 asst
Lawson, 15 pts, 4 rebs
Dansdill  7 pts, 7  rebs
Kyler  8 rebs

Summerlin 12 pts
Eppard 10 pts, 5 rebs

Wheaton 51.9% FG%, + 12 rebounding advantage.  From 18-17 early in the 2nd, the Thunder went on a 17-0 run and it was never really close after that.  Devin Kyler did a great job keeping Mikaela Eppard in check.