WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[duckfan41]

The lower part of the CCIW does seem rather down this year, but the top four teams are likely as good as or near as good as usual -- IWU, WC, EC and Augie.  Anything can happen in the AQ, CCIW tournament.  Lots of basketball to be played.

'70

Well, considering Augie is two games out of a tournament spot with Carthage currently tied with Elmhurst for third...

Yeah, the bottom of the conference is definitely down. I didn't expect Millikin to be winless in conference, I didn't expect NCC to be as bad as they've been, North Park has slowed down after a strong start, Carroll is probably about where I expected them, and so is Augie... but I definitely feel like the top of the conference is down as well. You've got a great IWU team this year (more on that in a moment), but I feel like Wheaton isn't as good as they were in years past. Prior Wheaton iterations would have blown the doors off this year's Cardinals team... and this year's Thunder didn't. They're obviously still a good team, but not quite the same caliber as prior years. Elmhurst/Carthage are good, but not great, and NCC's win over Carthage back in December just continues to look more bizarre as time goes on.

I think when the regional rankings come out, Wesleyan is going to end up no better than third in the Central. Their two losses are to teams whose records aren't as gaudy, but both have higher SOS (WashU is 5th nationally with an absurd .635, UW-Whitewater is 13th at .601). Yeah, they've got that aforementioned win over Chicago and a better SOS, which is why I'd probably put them third in the region. They've also got a good win over Rose-Hulman, plus beating Wheaton by seven at home in December... but that's really it. Beating up on a down CCIW by 30-plus every night doesn't really prepare you for postseason play all that well, and it could pose a problem when the Titans go to Wheaton soon. They haven't played a close game since that affair.

At the end of the day, talent wins; I would expect the Titans to win the AQ. And even if they don't, they should be at the table early enough that a Pool C bid would be extremely likely barring some sort of collapse. But I don't know how much farther they'll advance beyond that.

Illinois Wesleyan can clinch a CCIW Tournament berth with a win over Augie tomorrow night. Might be one of the earliest clinchers in the history of the conference tournament. Meanwhile, Millikin would be mathematically eliminated with a loss to Elmhurst.

To speak on that point, this is directly related to the graduation of a three-time All-American in Katie McDaniels. I know you probably know this and I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but losing a player of her elite caliber is going to result in some growing pains, which I figured would be the case this season. And we have definitely seen that happen. This Thunder team, according to the eye test and limited time to actually put research into the claim I'm about to make, has better post play than they've had in a few years, but they are lacking at the guard position, which is a new problem for Coach Madsen. Myroth/Dansdill/Lawson are all fine players, but they don't have the same commanding presence and "takeover" mentality that we got to see in McDaniels during her entire career. This Thunder team is very young, and I'm excited to see how their young guards develop, but right now the absence of McDaniels is the obvious cause of this apparent "decline" from the dominant force that was Wheaton Women's Basketball (in the CCIW at least) the last few years. Obviously, this team seems to be figuring things out as they have won 9 games in a row, so we'll see how the rest of the conference slate plays out. The CCIW Tourney likely won't be in King Arena, but I expect the Thunder to be a legitimate obstacle to the ladies from Bloomington winning the AQ.

[lmitzel]

The lower part of the CCIW does seem rather down this year, but the top four teams are likely as good as or near as good as usual -- IWU, WC, EC and Augie.  Anything can happen in the AQ, CCIW tournament.  Lots of basketball to be played.

'70

Well, considering Augie is two games out of a tournament spot with Carthage currently tied with Elmhurst for third...

Yeah, the bottom of the conference is definitely down. I didn't expect Millikin to be winless in conference, I didn't expect NCC to be as bad as they've been, North Park has slowed down after a strong start, Carroll is probably about where I expected them, and so is Augie... but I definitely feel like the top of the conference is down as well. You've got a great IWU team this year (more on that in a moment), but I feel like Wheaton isn't as good as they were in years past. Prior Wheaton iterations would have blown the doors off this year's Cardinals team... and this year's Thunder didn't. They're obviously still a good team, but not quite the same caliber as prior years. Elmhurst/Carthage are good, but not great, and NCC's win over Carthage back in December just continues to look more bizarre as time goes on.

I think when the regional rankings come out, Wesleyan is going to end up no better than third in the Central. Their two losses are to teams whose records aren't as gaudy, but both have higher SOS (WashU is 5th nationally with an absurd .635, UW-Whitewater is 13th at .601). Yeah, they've got that aforementioned win over Chicago and a better SOS, which is why I'd probably put them third in the region. They've also got a good win over Rose-Hulman, plus beating Wheaton by seven at home in December... but that's really it. Beating up on a down CCIW by 30-plus every night doesn't really prepare you for postseason play all that well, and it could pose a problem when the Titans go to Wheaton soon. They haven't played a close game since that affair.

At the end of the day, talent wins; I would expect the Titans to win the AQ. And even if they don't, they should be at the table early enough that a Pool C bid would be extremely likely barring some sort of collapse. But I don't know how much farther they'll advance beyond that.

Illinois Wesleyan can clinch a CCIW Tournament berth with a win over Augie tomorrow night. Might be one of the earliest clinchers in the history of the conference tournament. Meanwhile, Millikin would be mathematically eliminated with a loss to Elmhurst.

To speak on that point, this is directly related to the graduation of a three-time All-American in Katie McDaniels. I know you probably know this and I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but losing a player of her elite caliber is going to result in some growing pains, which I figured would be the case this season. And we have definitely seen that happen. This Thunder team, according to the eye test and limited time to actually put research into the claim I'm about to make, has better post play than they've had in a few years, but they are lacking at the guard position, which is a new problem for Coach Madsen. Myroth/Dansdill/Lawson are all fine players, but they don't have the same commanding presence and "takeover" mentality that we got to see in McDaniels during her entire career. This Thunder team is very young, and I'm excited to see how their young guards develop, but right now the absence of McDaniels is the obvious cause of this apparent "decline" from the dominant force that was Wheaton Women's Basketball (in the CCIW at least) the last few years. Obviously, this team seems to be figuring things out as they have won 9 games in a row, so we'll see how the rest of the conference slate plays out. The CCIW Tourney likely won't be in King Arena, but I expect the Thunder to be a legitimate obstacle to the ladies from Bloomington winning the AQ.

I don't take offense to that at all, because you're absolutely right. They're about where I expected them to be too given McDaniels' departure, but there was still a part of me that expected them to look a little better than they have been even with her being gone. Maybe it's just my having gotten used to NCC getting beat by significant margins in recent years (the 2017 and 2015 matchups in Naperville come to mind) that seeing a smaller margin colors my perception a little bit. And yet they gave IWU their toughest test in conference so far, which will only get magnified with a venue change and the fact that the Titans haven't played a close game since that first Wheaton matchup.

[duckfan41]

lmitzel:

Just wanted to make sure that we were on the same page, and we are. I guess it could be encouraging that the Cards kept the last matchup closer than other recent matchups (not a jab, I promise!). I, for one, am eager for IWU to come into town to get their first competitive game in what seems like months.

[iwu70]

It will be good for the TITANS to have a tough game at WC, perhaps vs. EC too.  The flip side of the coin is that with so many blow-outs, the Titan starters are more well-rested, playing fewer minutes, and could be in better shape and fitness for the conference tournament and whatever run the TITANS make in the D3 tournament.  We'll see.  The teams that don't have good guard play (vs. Titan's D pressure) and the ones IWU can mostly easily defeat.  They used to have trouble with big, physical tall teams, like the WIAC teams, but now with Merritt, Hughes and Brovelli, this seems to be less of an issue.  This year, the Titans are a better rebounding and interior defensive team.

Looking forward to the test at WC on February 7th.

'70

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I think 4 losses is just too many to get consideration seeing how many 1 and 2 loss teams there are.  I think the polls are fun, great conversation starters and I've been following the abundant posts on the men's board.  I'm grateful for Dave, Pat, Ryan and the rest of the voters.  But the only polls I really care about are the regional rankings.  And I think we all take for granted that the RR criteria won't be influenced by the D3Hoops polls or any other polls that might exist at any time.  At least that's what I believe which could be naive . . .

There is nothing to be naive about... the polls don't influence the regional committees nor the national. Those committees work hard and know their stuff and don't use the polls. There are plenty of examples of that every year.

As for IWU being behind Chicago... despite one game, I understand the mentality. Chicago just beat Rochester and playing very well to do it. Sure, IWU beat Chicago, but Chicago's resume looks strong than IWU's. I get there is one head-to-head, but that isn't a be-all and end-all for voters. Many voters may consider that outcome, but they aren't necessarily going to agree that it has to dictate the poll.

While some of you may want to believe that voters are ignoring that result, I don't believe they are. I am not voting in that poll, but I know how the data and information is delivered and that result is front and center on both resumes - multiple times for Chicago at least.

People like to hang their hats on single results and on occasions they are a determining factor, but they aren't in other occasions. Both teams have two losses, Chicago has a win over WashU that IWU has as a loss. I can see why some voters felt Chicago is the better team.

FYI - not all voters have IWU behind Chicago. If they are that close, I am sure voters are split. It is difficult to see voters on the poll painted by a broad brush when looking at one comparison, in a vacuum. They are both in the Top 25 which is rather difficult to accomplish on the women's side - at least because the top tier in women's basketball is harder to crack into than on the men's, which is constantly changing.

[GoPerry]

Well, considering Augie is two games out of a tournament spot with Carthage currently tied with Elmhurst for third...

Yeah, the bottom of the conference is definitely down. I didn't expect Millikin to be winless in conference, I didn't expect NCC to be as bad as they've been, North Park has slowed down after a strong start, Carroll is probably about where I expected them, and so is Augie... but I definitely feel like the top of the conference is down as well. You've got a great IWU team this year (more on that in a moment), but I feel like Wheaton isn't as good as they were in years past. Prior Wheaton iterations would have blown the doors off this year's Cardinals team... and this year's Thunder didn't. They're obviously still a good team, but not quite the same caliber as prior years. Elmhurst/Carthage are good, but not great, and NCC's win over Carthage back in December just continues to look more bizarre as time goes on.

I think when the regional rankings come out, Wesleyan is going to end up no better than third in the Central. Their two losses are to teams whose records aren't as gaudy, but both have higher SOS (WashU is 5th nationally with an absurd .635, UW-Whitewater is 13th at .601). Yeah, they've got that aforementioned win over Chicago and a better SOS, which is why I'd probably put them third in the region. They've also got a good win over Rose-Hulman, plus beating Wheaton by seven at home in December... but that's really it. Beating up on a down CCIW by 30-plus every night doesn't really prepare you for postseason play all that well, and it could pose a problem when the Titans go to Wheaton soon. They haven't played a close game since that affair.

At the end of the day, talent wins; I would expect the Titans to win the AQ. And even if they don't, they should be at the table early enough that a Pool C bid would be extremely likely barring some sort of collapse. But I don't know how much farther they'll advance beyond that.

Illinois Wesleyan can clinch a CCIW Tournament berth with a win over Augie tomorrow night. Might be one of the earliest clinchers in the history of the conference tournament. Meanwhile, Millikin would be mathematically eliminated with a loss to Elmhurst.

To speak on that point, this is directly related to the graduation of a three-time All-American in Katie McDaniels. I know you probably know this and I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but losing a player of her elite caliber is going to result in some growing pains, which I figured would be the case this season. And we have definitely seen that happen. This Thunder team, according to the eye test and limited time to actually put research into the claim I'm about to make, has better post play than they've had in a few years, but they are lacking at the guard position, which is a new problem for Coach Madsen. Myroth/Dansdill/Lawson are all fine players, but they don't have the same commanding presence and "takeover" mentality that we got to see in McDaniels during her entire career. This Thunder team is very young, and I'm excited to see how their young guards develop, but right now the absence of McDaniels is the obvious cause of this apparent "decline" from the dominant force that was Wheaton Women's Basketball (in the CCIW at least) the last few years. Obviously, this team seems to be figuring things out as they have won 9 games in a row, so we'll see how the rest of the conference slate plays out. The CCIW Tourney likely won't be in King Arena, but I expect the Thunder to be a legitimate obstacle to the ladies from Bloomington winning the AQ.

I don't take offense to that at all, because you're absolutely right. They're about where I expected them to be too given McDaniels' departure, but there was still a part of me that expected them to look a little better than they have been even with her being gone. Maybe it's just my having gotten used to NCC getting beat by significant margins in recent years (the 2017 and 2015 matchups in Naperville come to mind) that seeing a smaller margin colors my perception a little bit. And yet they gave IWU their toughest test in conference so far, which will only get magnified with a venue change and the fact that the Titans haven't played a close game since that first Wheaton matchup.

I'm with you guys.  As I've said in earlier posts, I didn't expect Wheaton to be as strong as last year but still thought they'd be good (with Kelly Lawson returning, a unanimous 1st team All-CCIW performer mind you) and able to challenge for the top of the conference with IWU who I considered to be the favorite.  This has born itself out from the current standings.

Hannah Frazier has been a welcome addition obviously.  Probably a lock for 1st team all CCIW, maybe unanimous.  Eppard is likely MOP but Hannah will get strong consideration especially if Wheaton finishes very strong ( yeah I know, shouldn't matter how the team does yada, yada, yada).  She's someone I didn't count on.  So in that sense, I'm with Imitzel in that I'm expecting the Thunder to be almost as good as last year, but in a different way – with stronger front court play (Frazier) but a slight drop in guard play(loss of McDaniels).   I've posted before about Lawson's surprising drop in production when I rather expected it to increase.  But then Dansdill has really stepped up and so has Myroth.  However, they are still missing that steady floor leadership in the backcourt which they enjoyed the past 4 seasons.

I fully expect the Titans to host the tourney.  Their remaining road games are all against the 3 teams right behind them in the standings @ Wheaton, @ Carthage @ Elmhurst.  Certainly not pushovers but wouldn't expect them to go any worse than 2-1 in that stretch, and win their home games.

[duckfan41]

Very important for Wheaton to avoid "trap game syndrome" tonight against Carthage. The combination of already beating Carthage in Kenosha, and Elmhurst (who surprisingly beat Wheaton earlier this season) coming to King on Saturday has all of the workings of leading to a potential *overlooking* of a solid Carthage team tonight. I hope I'm wrong and Wheaton handles business and keeps their streak alive, but anything can happen in this league.

[GoPerry]

Wheaton 54
Carthage 35

Kelly Lawson      11 pts, 6 rebs * only player from either team in double figures
Devin Kyler      11 rebs, 4 assts, 3 blks
Maggie Dansdill   8 pts, 8 rebs, 2 stls
Kristi Demski      9 pts, 3-7 3pt

Sammie Woodward   8 pts
Morgan Harris       10 rebs
Rachel Szydlowski   8 rebs
Bailey Gilbert      7 rebs

Not the prettiest game by either team but this one got out of hand for the Lady Reds pretty early.  The Thunder led 31-11 at half as Carthage went 3-27 from the field in the first 20 mins and ended the game 12-64 for 19%.  It actually could've been worse except that Wheaton was just 32% from the field. The Thunder ladies came out with lots of defensive energy that seemed to take Carthage by surprise.  Would love to see that level of D the rest of the way.  Perhaps the significant size mismatch had something to do with it as Wheaton padded their nation leading blocked shots stat with 19.  Wheaton just has too much size for a team with few players close to 6'0".  And Carthage had just a tough night where nothing really fell (if it wasn't getting blocked).

2 big home games now vs Elmhurst and IWU - their only 2 conference losses.

[iwu70]

IWU 99 AC 70

For AC:
Jones 18
Kramer 17
Anderson 10
Allen 10

AC played the TITANS pretty well in the early going.

For IWU:
Shanks (a career night) 21
Merritt 19
McGraw 16
Ehresman 12
Hughes 10
Anderson 9

Not the prettiest game, or the best shooting night for IWU, but we'll take it.  Still winning by 29.  

A bye weekend, then the big game @ Wheaton.

IWU'70

[lmitzel]

I had a feeling of déjà vu tonight. North Central led 55-50 over Carroll with 2:49 to play... and then the offense went silent. Emily Majerus hit a go ahead three with 40 seconds to go and the Pioneers escape Naperville with a 60-55 win after leading for all of 2:03 in this game.

Brittney Wald went off for 23 and 12 to lead the Pios, while Rachel Van Sluys returned to action with 15 and 10. Maya Walls paced the Cardinals with 10 points. Mayson Whipple did not play tonight, but I don't think it's supposed to be a long term thing.

Tonight sucked.

[lmitzel]

And per Rog's request...

Elmhurst 55, Millikin 53, which kind of threw me for a loop. The Big Blue kept it close most of the way, but a Kaela Jones steal with 5 seconds left sealed the deal for the Jays.

12 and 6 for Mikaela Eppard, 16 and 8 for Lisa Logan, Jasmin Bailey added 9 and 3 for Elmhurst. Emily Schultz led Millikin with 12 and 6, while Haley Toohill added 10 and 4 steals.

[iwu70]

Titans now 18-2, 11-0 in CCIW. 

If there's any change in the overall CCIW championship dynamic, it has to come when IWU plays @Wheaton on the 7th. 

Shanks very active tonight, a career night with 21 points.

'70

[GoPerry]

Wheaton 54
Carthage 35

Kelly Lawson      11 pts, 6 rebs * only player from either team in double figures
Devin Kyler      11 rebs, 4 assts, 3 blks
Maggie Dansdill   8 pts, 8 rebs, 2 stls
Kristi Demski      9 pts, 3-7 3pt

Sammie Woodward   8 pts
Morgan Harris       10 rebs
Rachel Szydlowski   8 rebs
Bailey Gilbert      7 rebs

Not the prettiest game by either team but this one got out of hand for the Lady Reds pretty early.  The Thunder led 31-11 at half as Carthage went 3-27 from the field in the first 20 mins and ended the game 12-64 for 19%.  It actually could've been worse except that Wheaton was just 32% from the field. The Thunder ladies came out with lots of defensive energy that seemed to take Carthage by surprise.  Would love to see that level of D the rest of the way.  Perhaps the significant size mismatch had something to do with it as Wheaton padded their nation leading blocked shots stat with 19.  Wheaton just has too much size for a team with few players close to 6'0".  And Carthage had just a tough night where nothing really fell (if it wasn't getting blocked).

2 big home games now vs Elmhurst and IWU - their only 2 conference losses.

Wheaton's Jill Berg should also be recognized for her 6 pts, 10 rebs, 8 blocked shots and a steal.

[lmitzel]

So with six rounds of conference play to go:

x-Illinois Wesleyan	11-0
Wheaton	9-2
Elmhurst	8-3
Carthage	7-4
Augustana	5-6
North Park	3-7
Carroll	3-7
North Central	2-9
e- Millikin	0-10

x- Clinched a tournament berth
e- Eliminated

*North Park holds the head to head tiebreaker over Carroll

[thunder38]

As Kent Madsen mentioned just now on the Hoopsville show, Wheaton will host Elmhurst on Saturday for its annual cancer awareness event. This year's game will be a unique opportunity for the Thunder to lift up a teammate. Last spring, All-American point guard Katie McDaniels was diagnosed with a rare form of bone cancer called chondrosarcoma. As was mentioned on the show, her tumor was detected early in her Wheaton career but was not correctly diagnosed until last spring. She has since had surgery to remove it and is now cancer free. Saturday's event will be raising awareness and funds for The Sarcoma Foundation of America. Wheaton's student group (Ryken's Rowdies) will be raising funds and in the wake of the news, a Wheaton donor has stepped up and will match any donations raised up to $10,000! If you're interested in contributing to this event, email Ryken's Rowdies (rykens.rowdies@my.wheaton.edu) for how you can support their effort. More information on the event is listed in Wheaton's press release below.

http://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2018/1/31/womens-basketball-to-host-annual-cancer-awareness-event-on-saturday-night.aspx