WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[RogK]

So ends the very weird Augustana season.
Mid-December through mid-January saw them win 7 of 8, including the only victory by a CCIW team over Wheaton.
Over their final 8 games, they scored under 50 in four of them. What the?
Sadie Roberts, Izzy Anderson, Scooter Lopez and Clare Kramer have completed their careers; maybe also seniors Carly McCameron and Hannah Durbin -- they could have another year of eligibility?
Alexis Jones already does a lot for Augie. Several others will need to contribute a lot more, if these Vikings are to retain mid-league status in '19-'20.

[GoPerry]

Congrats to NPU and Carthage for advancing.  NPU over Augie perhaps a mild upset, but not really much of one, even if that.  Wheaton will have to be ready for a fired up Viking squad.

[RogK]

Four Lady Reds scored in double figures in their 8 pt win over Elmhurst :
11 each from Maggie Berigan and Rachel Szydlowski, 13 each from Autumn Kalis and Bailey Gilbert.
Amanda Larson grabbed 12 rebounds.
Lisa Logan was the only Bluejay in double figures, scoring 14. Kelly Weyhrich had 8 rebounds.
Elmhurst scored 21 pts via 27 3FG att, 22 pts via 37 2FG att.
Carthage wasn't particularly good from the field either, but good enough.

[npbaseball40]

Here's an all-CCIW formula that would likely produce better results than the current method. [snip]

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder. Some people believe that a merit-based system that is completely divorced from the influence of the standings is best.

The opposite argument is raging on the CCIW men's basketball board right now, where some of us are not happy with the fact that the league's second-best forward, who averaged 21.3 ppg, 5.7 rpg, and 3.4 apg in CCIW play, was excluded from the first team -- and the only possibly reason why is because his team finished in eighth place with a 3-13 record.

Yeah, as much as I'm intrigued by Rog's proposal, especially with the bias of "4-12 Millikin got 2 All-CCIW nods while 5-11 NCC got shut out," I don't think it holds water. Can you really say Lyndsay Brennan (averaged an 8-6-2 on 48/40/60 splits) deserves a nod over Jordan Hildebrand (13-8, finished 2nd in the conference in FG% and top 15 in FT%)? Even with red-tinted glasses... I can't make a legitimate case.

All-CCIW is an individual accolade. I kind of get the allure of the better teams having more representation, since in theory they'll have more of the top players, but you shouldn't rob a deserving player because they were stuck on a team that struggled.

One could also argue that players who are on lower-finishing teams do not have the advantage of playing their own team.

In other words, if a team has a poor scoring defense, they do not get the advantage of two league games against that poor defense... as they are a member of that team.

[Gregory Sager]

That's a good point.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, I really like the trend (IF it is a trend) to individual vs. team accomplishment.  Not even great players can lift a team to success if they have TOTALLY (or probably even mostly) incompetent teammates.  Team success should be only a tie-breaker on otherwise equal resumes (with the exception of eyeball assessments of players that contribute greatly to successful teams in ways that don't show up on the stat sheets).  The all-conference teams are honoring PLAYERS, not teams.

While I think RogK is one of our best posters (and sometimes keeps this board from disappearing!), I think his post six hours ago would be a huge step in the wrong direction.

[RogK]

If npbaseball40's point is a good one, we should also say : of course Wheaton ended up in 1st place -- they had the easiest schedule : they're the only team who didn't have to play against Wheaton.
My formula does not preclude a last place team from getting a player or two on all-conf. It does prevent a fairly decent team from being snubbed. A fairly decent team necessarily has a good player or two, counting offense and defense.
Thanks for the compliment, Mr. Ypsi.

[npbaseball40]

If npbaseball40's point is a good one, we should also say : of course Wheaton ended up in 1st place -- they had the easiest schedule : they're the only team who didn't have to play against Wheaton.
My formula does not preclude a last place team from getting a player or two on all-conf. It does prevent a fairly decent team from being snubbed. A fairly decent team necessarily has a good player or two, counting offense and defense.
Thanks for the compliment, Mr. Ypsi.

Here's something fun in line with this discussion:

In 2009, Elmhurst College baseball finished dead last in the league race, but sophomore infielder Zach Hofer finished as the co-player of the year. His .431 CCIW batting average was 11 points higher than the second place finisher, but he did not lead the league in any other category.

I know this is a hoops board, but I was curious to see how other sports have voted over the years.

Anyone have other examples of this type of situation where a team finishes at or near the bottom and gets the player of the year honor? Specifically: in hoops?

[GoPerry]

If npbaseball40's point is a good one, we should also say : of course Wheaton ended up in 1st place -- they had the easiest schedule : they're the only team who didn't have to play against Wheaton.

Good one RogK!  I think Hannah Frazier would have a lot of trouble guarding . . . Hannah Frazier.

[Gregory Sager]

If npbaseball40's point is a good one, we should also say : of course Wheaton ended up in 1st place -- they had the easiest schedule : they're the only team who didn't have to play against Wheaton.
My formula does not preclude a last place team from getting a player or two on all-conf. It does prevent a fairly decent team from being snubbed. A fairly decent team necessarily has a good player or two, counting offense and defense.
Thanks for the compliment, Mr. Ypsi.

Here's something fun in line with this discussion:

In 2009, Elmhurst College baseball finished dead last in the league race, but sophomore infielder Zach Hofer finished as the co-player of the year. His .431 CCIW batting average was 11 points higher than the second place finisher, but he did not lead the league in any other category.

I know this is a hoops board, but I was curious to see how other sports have voted over the years.

Anyone have other examples of this type of situation where a team finishes at or near the bottom and gets the player of the year honor? Specifically: in hoops?

The classic example hereabouts doesn't involve hoops; it involves the Cubs. In 1987 Andre Dawson hit 47 homers and drove in 139 RBI for the North Siders, leading the NL in both categories as well as total bases and ending the season with a slash line of .287/.328/.568. He won the NL MVP that season, in spite of the fact that the Cubs finished sixth -- dead last -- in the NL East, 18 1/2 games out of first.

In CCIW women's basketball, the coaches have always hewed faithfully to the idea that the Most Outstanding Player award has to be given to a player from one of the top four teams in the league. In fact, only once has it been given to a player whose team had a losing record in CCIW play; in 2001 it was won by North Central's Amanda Orsburn, in a season in which NCC tied with North Park for third with a 6-8 record.

Over on the men's side, there have only been two occasions in which the MOP was won by a player whose team finished lower than fourth. Alonzo Alexander of North Central was named MOP in 1992 despite the fact that the Cardinals finished fifth with an 8-8 CCIW record, and in 1986 Steve Albinger of Carroll won the MOP while playing on a Pioneers team that finished a lowly 4-12 and tied for seventh place. Since the CCIW has been handing out the MOP award in men's basketball since 1968, that's a pretty long track record of demanding team success in order to reward individual accomplishment.

[RogK]

npbaseball40, the player who immediately came to mind upon seeing your question was another baseball player : 1972 Steve Carlton / Philadelphia --- now that I look it up, he was Cy Young, but was 5th in MVP voting.
Thanks to Greg for his comprehensive answer.
If we are still talking about my proposed all-conf formula, it does allow last place teams, even an 0-16 team, to nominate for 1st team / MOP.
Millikin did get 2 players on all-CCIW and a 3rd, Aubrey Staton had a fine freshman season. I particularly like the prospects of a tall player like her who can shoot threes.
Millikin's defense was not good, however.
They allowed opponents to shoot .515 on 2FGs, so a lot of that has to be owned by the players who played the most. So, yes, Saddler, Hildebrand and Staton all had good offense numbers (maybe turnover-prone), but unless we know that one of them specifically is a great defender, the team's losses are probably attributable to below-average defense by most everyone who played a lot.
oops, make that .516

[GoPerry]

Interesting profile of Hannah Frazier - particularly her description of the D1 vs D3 experience.  Not news to any of us but still interesting to hear first hand.  From latest issue of student newspaper.

http://www.wheatonrecord.com/articles/athlete-spotlight-hannah-frazier/

[RogK]

Nice sentiments in that piece, GoPerry. There have to be many D1 players that would be happier playing in D3.
-
All five CCIW teams whose seasons are done have reason for optimism for next season. All should certainly contend for positions in the 6 team conf tourney.
Assuming the potential returning players do return, there shouldn't be any very poor teams next season. We didn't have any crummy teams this season, although many were flawed one way or another.
Here's hoping that an even larger crop of good newcomers arrive in next fall, raising the talent level across the league, maybe bringing the next nonconference win pct up well over 60.

[lmitzel]

Linking to this for when it gets updated, but at least on the NCAA site third regional rankings are out. Wheaton stays at 3, IWU jumps a spot to #4.

Should mean whoever loses Saturday (assuming both make the title game) will likely get to the table either right at the beginning or shortly thereafter, so both should be in.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The new NCAA Division III women's basketball regional rankings are posted: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/women-regional-rankings-third