WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

New women's poll is finally up (don't know why it is always 6-8 hours later than the men's)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-C-IbkuNWs

[gordonmann]

New women's poll is finally up (don't know why it is always 6-8 hours later than the men's), and the CCIW got dissed big-time

I can answer that since I run the poll. It's not a very exciting answer, but here it is.

The women's voting closes at 6 pm ET because I work a full-time job outside of D3hoops.com. I can't do the poll administration during the regular work day. I also occasionally travel for work and may not have reliable internet access. That was the case yesterday.

Sometimes voters don't meet the deadline so I have to chase them down (not the case yesterday). That adds time to the ballot release. I have about a 90-minute window before I have to put work aside (including D3 stuff) and be a dad to two small children. Once we get through dinner, hide-and-seek, "yes, you really have to go bed," and bedtime stories, I can pick up the D3 poll again, which is around 10 pm (they are night owls).

The poll then usually gets posted around 11 pm, which is much later than I'd like. That's just the way my schedule runs right now.

On the dearth of CCIW votes, I thought about voting for a CCIW team but couldn't find one whose resume warranted it right now. I was afraid the conference would get shut out entirely for the reasons you noted.

I think the inability to get out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament in recent years is also weighing the conference down. The CCIW teams often lose to highly ranked teams (Hope 2019, Trine 2018, Wash U 2018), though not always (Wisconsin Lutheran 2019). The IWU title is a while ago now. The conference needs another March run to elevate its profile.

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks for the explanation, Gordon. Frankly, I think that you're doing yeoman work in just getting it out on Monday at all.

Chuck may think that the CCIW is being dissed this week, but I don't. I agree with you; I don't think that the league has really earned a spot in the poll at this point. And the league's inability to get out of the first weekend of the tournament really is the elephant in the room. As I said yesterday, in order for the league to get better it needs to get deeper in terms of the number of quality teams it has. I think that in part the failure of CCIW teams to advance to the second weekend in recent D3 tournaments has to do with the CCIW's lack of overall strength, because leagues that have solid depth tend to give their eventual post-season representatives the iron-sharpens-iron mettle that they need to succeed in March.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I, frankly, don't understand when Gordon sleeps.  I think he's got access to a couple extra hours in the day I'm completely unaware of.

[GoPerry]

On the dearth of CCIW votes, I thought about voting for a CCIW team but couldn't find one whose resume warranted it right now. I was afraid the conference would get shut out entirely for the reasons you noted.

I think the inability to get out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament in recent years is also weighing the conference down. The CCIW teams often lose to highly ranked teams (Hope 2019, Trine 2018, Wash U 2018), though not always (Wisconsin Lutheran 2019). The IWU title is a while ago now. The conference needs another March run to elevate its profile.

Gordon, we thank your for your service!

Honestly, I'm not sure what respect for a certain conference has much to do with the top 25 poll.  Perhaps there's a subliminal factor I guess.  But it would seem on the women's side that it's more team specific.  For instance, it seems pollsters will keep a 3 loss Amherst, Wash U, Hope team on their ballot longer than a 3 loss Wheaton or Loras  ( all teams strictly just examples). 

I agree that there aren't any CCIW teams deserving of special recognition right now.  NPU has the best record but only one notable win @ Wheaton that's looking less notable.

Chuck may think that the CCIW is being dissed this week, but I don't. I agree with you; I don't think that the league has really earned a spot in the poll at this point. And the league's inability to get out of the first weekend of the tournament really is the elephant in the room. As I said yesterday, in order for the league to get better it needs to get deeper in terms of the number of quality teams it has. I think that in part the failure of CCIW teams to advance to the second weekend in recent D3 tournaments has to do with the CCIW's lack of overall strength, because leagues that have solid depth tend to give their eventual post-season representatives the iron-sharpens-iron mettle that they need to succeed in March.

I've probably complained too much about the lack of strength in the CCIW.  Wheaton has had some solid teams that I thought should have gotten out of the first weekend.  I thought this year's team should also but that's looking weak right now.  But the top heavy competitiveness of the last few seasons (WC, IWU, maybe Carthage then everyone else)   A. does little to prepare playoff teams for NCAA competition and B. the weaker SOS means a more difficult draw and our teams having to play @ Hope, @ WashU, @ UST, etc.

As a coach, you want to schedule tough non-con opponents.  But more than 2 non-con losses plus another one or two in the league will keep you 4-6 in the Central RR and probably riding a bus and maybe playing the host in the first round.

Last, it just gets a little boring without some different teams competing.  So I'm enjoying the league play so far this season.  More league games that matter is just overall more enjoyable whether the team wearing Orange wins or not (ok fine - unless it's the green team winning . . .). 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Hey, I've got nothing against the green team winning!

[RogK]

Late last year (Dec 31) Greg listed the Massey ratings, which had 7 of the 9 CCIW teams in the top 1/4th of D3. That's not too awful.

[Gregory Sager]

Here's where they are at the moment in Massey:

team	MR	MSoS
Illinois Wesleyan	28	8
North Park	39	75
Wheaton	51	46
Augustana	58	11
Carthage	70	48
Millikin	91	108
Carroll	125	36
Elmhurst	164	94
North Central	167	66

Massey rates the CCIW 8th out of the division's 49 leagues, with the third-best strength of schedule.

It's clearly a decent league; everybody's in the top half of the division, with seven of the league's nine teams in the top third of D3, and six of them in the top quarter. But nobody's among the Top 25, which means that Massey bears out the d3hoops.com poll.

The league still has plenty of room for improvement.

[Mr. Ypsi]

And all NINE in the top quarter of SoS (which so far is mainly a product of the non-con schedules - no one can charge the CCIW with ducking tough opponents!)

IF IWU holds home court against the East Vikings, and IF Munroe and Shanks return soon, the Titans should return to the top 25 in short order.  (Which reminds me, does anyone here have any scoop on Munroe and Shanks?)

I have little doubt that Olivia Lett will have the Big Blue competing for the CCIW title within a year or two.

[gordonmann]

Honestly, I'm not sure what respect for a certain conference has much to do with the top 25 poll.  Perhaps there's a subliminal factor I guess.  But it would seem on the women's side that it's more team specific.  For instance, it seems pollsters will keep a 3 loss Amherst, Wash U, Hope team on their ballot longer than a 3 loss Wheaton or Loras  ( all teams strictly just examples).

Fair point. Division III women's basketball is definitely more about the sustained excellence of individual programs than conferences. Scranton, Thomas More, Wartburg, DePauw -- there are lots of examples where one team's success does not carry over to the conference as a whole.

Maybe I'm projecting onto other voters too much how I vote. I generally try to make sure that my ballot has the best team from at least four conferences -- NESCAC, WIAC, UAA and NWC. The last decade of NCAA Tournament results bear out that three of those conferences routinely have teams with deep tournament runs, which I think speaks to Greg's "iron-sharpens-iron" factor.

The WIAC may not fit that mold anymore. The WIAC has had teams reach the second weekend of the Tournament more recently than the CCIW, but they haven't had an Elite 8 team since 2014.

[iwu70]

Ypsi, the radio commentary the other day said Munroe was injured taking a charge in TX. and would likely be back for the game vs. NPU.  I have no word on Shanks.  Some flu about, as Bowen was sick, but did suit up, played a few minutes vs. MU earlier. Katie Eck and Anna Lowis may get more minutes, given their outstanding play vs. MU.  Titans could get back into top 25, with a good run of CCIW wins.  They have played a very tough schedule and have good win over Chicago, came very close vs. ranked DePauw.  We'll see if they gain strength down the stretch now, or have trouble due to injuries and lack of overall depth.  I'm hopeful, but it could go either way, IMHO.

IWU'70 

[iwu70]

Munroe back in the line-up tonight vs. NPU.  Shanks on the bench in civilian clothes, still out.  More minutes for Lowis and Eck.

IWU over NPU 15-10 after 1Q.

'70

[Mr. Ypsi]

At the half, Titans 31, Vikings 21.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Titans extended the lead to 15 after 3, then the rout was on: final IWU 82, NPU 51.

[iwu70]

Convincing, even without Shanks:

IWU 82 NPU 51

Sosa 26
Brovelli 17 and 7, 5 steals
Munroe, finding her shot, 13 and 5
Eck 7
Lansford 7
Heller 7
Anna Lowis with 8 steals

For NPU:
J. Johnson 16 and 8
Summervile 14 and 6

Titans move to 10-4, 4-1 in CCIW play, moving to 1st place.

Keep going Green, one game at a time . . . good defence, overall team effort tonight. 

Let's hope Sydney Shanks OK, back soon.

'70