WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

IWU over EC at the half 27-23.  No Shanks.

Mono is a tricky illness, and it's difficult to put a timetable on recovering from it.

[RogK]

Carroll topped Wheaton 73-64.
Among those who did well for the Pioneers :
Sierra Grubor 20 pts, 6 rebs, made 12/15 FTs; Kate Christian 12 pts, 8 rebs; Brooke Foster 12 pts in 17:00 by making 4/5 3FGs (1.200 eFG%).
Kayla Stefka had an efficient 11 pts in 19:00; her 2FG shooting is an outstanding .705 for the season (43/61).
For the Thunder :
Hannah Williams 16 pts (.667 eFG%) 6 assists, 6 rebs; Kirsten Madsen 14 pts (.700 eFG%); also 13 pts from Hannah Frazier and 12 from Hannah Swider; Jill Berg had 7 pts, 8 rebs, 3 blocks, 3 steals.
Carroll won the rebounding 41-29. Carroll made 22 free throws, compared to 8 by Wheaton.
The win allows the Pioneers to remain in the vicinity of a conference playoff spot; had they fallen to 1-6, things would've been discouraging.

[Gregory Sager]

Carroll topped Wheaton 73-64.
Among those who did well for the Pioneers :
Sierra Grubor 20 pts, 6 rebs, made 12/15 FTs; Kate Christian 12 pts, 8 rebs; Brooke Foster 12 pts in 17:00 by making 4/5 3FGs (1.200 eFG%).
Kayla Stefka had an efficient 11 pts in 19:00; her 2FG shooting is an outstanding .705 for the season (43/61).
For the Thunder :
Hannah Williams 16 pts (.667 eFG%) 6 assists, 6 rebs; Kirsten Madsen 14 pts (.700 eFG%); also 13 pts from Hannah Frazier and 12 from Hannah Swider; Jill Berg had 7 pts, 8 rebs, 3 blocks, 3 steals.
Carroll won the rebounding 41-29. Carroll made 22 free throws, compared to 8 by Wheaton.
The win allows the Pioneers to remain in the vicinity of a conference playoff spot; had they fallen to 1-6, things would've been discouraging.

The eye-popping statistic in this game was the 31 points that Carroll scored in the fourth quarter. Thirty-one points? That's usually about a half's worth against Wheaton.

The other thing that stuck out to me is that Jordan Myroth didn't attempt a single shot the entire game. Not from the field, and not from the free-throw line. She did have a nice 4:1 floor game and blocked three shots, but I've gotta think that Kent Madsen is expecting Myroth to contribute more than that in 28 minutes on the floor (she had a ho-hum four rebounds as well).

[RogK]

Thanks for noting that 31 total, Greg. I neglected to look at the quarter-by-quarter numbers.
In the IWU game, Elmhurst scored 14 pts from 40 2FG attempts and 27 pts from 21 3FG attempts. Since we sometimes hear the clever quip "live by the 3, die by the 3", I'll add "live by the 2, die by the 2."
I don't have much to add to your (Greg's) write-up of the MIL-NPU game. I'll agree with the "young and talented" assessment of Millikin, but I don't quite agree with the idea that they will only get better this season. I saw a major defensive failure, as they completely refused to respect Emily Czuhajewski who came into the game shooting 45% at 3FGs. Millikin defenders couldn't wait to stray away from her and Emily definitely got the last laugh(s).
I think we can expect Millikin to be better next season, assuming Coach Lett has additional talent on the way, especially some guards who are confident 3FG shooters.
North Park, despite some errors, executed a game plan well, utilizing their quickness and defensive swarming effectively.
** addendum : it occurs to me that Millikin also allowed Carroll's Theresa Wichser to sink 6/12 threes in the Pios' December 14 win at Millikin.

[GoPerry]

Carroll topped Wheaton 73-64.
Among those who did well for the Pioneers :
Sierra Grubor 20 pts, 6 rebs, made 12/15 FTs; Kate Christian 12 pts, 8 rebs; Brooke Foster 12 pts in 17:00 by making 4/5 3FGs (1.200 eFG%).
Kayla Stefka had an efficient 11 pts in 19:00; her 2FG shooting is an outstanding .705 for the season (43/61).
For the Thunder :
Hannah Williams 16 pts (.667 eFG%) 6 assists, 6 rebs; Kirsten Madsen 14 pts (.700 eFG%); also 13 pts from Hannah Frazier and 12 from Hannah Swider; Jill Berg had 7 pts, 8 rebs, 3 blocks, 3 steals.
Carroll won the rebounding 41-29. Carroll made 22 free throws, compared to 8 by Wheaton.
The win allows the Pioneers to remain in the vicinity of a conference playoff spot; had they fallen to 1-6, things would've been discouraging.

The only positive is that I wasn't able to watch the game or follow on live stats.  10 free throw attempts all game?  -12 boards, -8 offensive?  31 pts allowed in the fourth? 

The headline on Wheaton's website says the Thunder ran out of gas. . . that's just an excuse and a bad one.

The other thing that stuck out to me is that Jordan Myroth didn't attempt a single shot the entire game. Not from the field, and not from the free-throw line. She did have a nice 4:1 floor game and blocked three shots, but I've gotta think that Kent Madsen is expecting Myroth to contribute more than that in 28 minutes on the floor (she had a ho-hum four rebounds as well).

. . . confidence

[iwu70]

Agree, Greg, on mono.  I had it once and was basically down, out of work for 6 weeks.  Hope Shanks returns sooner.  Luckily, when I had it I happened to be sick, away from my job then in NYC, during the Watergate Hearings, leading to the impeachment and resignation of Richard Nixon, so I quickly become an expert on all things Watergate . . . summer of '74, if I recall it correctly.

I'm surprised at Wheaton's play so far.  3-3 at this point is not where I expected them to be in the conference race. 

Bowen will be back soon . . . just a stomach bug, apparently.  Titans playing well, making do with a jiggered line-up.  Others have to step up.  Eck and Lowis doing a good job so far. 

'70

[RogK]

Last season, Carroll played 25 games, including one against NAIA Trinity International. Carroll player stats included that game, as evidenced here :
https://static.cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/WBasketball/Stats/1819/CARROLL.HTM
Note that three players appeared in 25 games, so stats from the game vs an NAIA opponent were counted.
This season, Illinois Wesleyan played NAIA Governors State and stats from that game are included here :
http://stats.ncaa.org/team/300/stats/15002
Look under Team Statistics and you'll see that (for example) Kendall Sosa has scored 288 pts in 15 games for a 19.2 average.
Next look here :
https://cciw.org/stats.aspx?path=wbball&year=2019
under Leaders, Sosa is shown playing only 14 games and scoring 259. So, her game of 29 pts vs the NAIA opponent are excluded. The same exclusion is obvious for Brovelli and Lansford who also have played in all 15 games, but appear with only 14 in the cciw org stats.
Is this exclusion of stats vs NAIA opponents a CCIW policy change effective with the 2019-20 season?

[Gregory Sager]

I don't have much to add to your (Greg's) write-up of the MIL-NPU game. I'll agree with the "young and talented" assessment of Millikin, but I don't quite agree with the idea that they will only get better this season. I saw a major defensive failure, as they completely refused to respect Emily Czuhajewski who came into the game shooting 45% at 3FGs. Millikin defenders couldn't wait to stray away from her and Emily definitely got the last laugh(s).

Some of that is Olivia Lett's fault for playing so much zone. The Vikings missed a bunch of shots against the zone, but that was more due to their own ineptitude at hitting open shots last night than anything; they got good shots against it all night, none better, of course, than the ones that Emily took. But a lot of it just comes down to inexperience on the part of Millikin's backcourt. Against man defense NPU's backcourt did a ton of penetrating, leading all of the MU guards to cheat back a little and give the Vikings plenty of space to find Czuhajewski on the wing. And the more experienced Jazmin Brown and Briana Anthony were assigned to NPU's quicker guards, leaving freshmen Miranda Fox and Natalie Snyder to handle Emily Czuhajewski.

I think that they will do a much better job of defending Czuhajewski in Decatur, and the Vikings will need to be ready to deal with that.

Last season, Carroll played 25 games, including one against NAIA Trinity International. Carroll player stats included that game, as evidenced here :
https://static.cciw.org/custompages/CCIW_Links/WBasketball/Stats/1819/CARROLL.HTM
Note that three players appeared in 25 games, so stats from the game vs an NAIA opponent were counted.
This season, Illinois Wesleyan played NAIA Governors State and stats from that game are included here :
http://stats.ncaa.org/team/300/stats/15002
Look under Team Statistics and you'll see that (for example) Kendall Sosa has scored 288 pts in 15 games for a 19.2 average.
Next look here :
https://cciw.org/stats.aspx?path=wbball&year=2019
under Leaders, Sosa is shown playing only 14 games and scoring 259. So, her game of 29 pts vs the NAIA opponent are excluded. The same exclusion is obvious for Brovelli and Lansford who also have played in all 15 games, but appear with only 14 in the cciw org stats.
Is this exclusion of stats vs NAIA opponents a CCIW policy change effective with the 2019-20 season?

No, it isn't. The game counts as an official game, so it obviously needs to be entered into the CCIW stats page. I wouldn't blame Mike Krizman for it; knowing Governors State, it's likely that GSU submitted the stats late. SIDs consistently find themselves having to play catch-up because of late (or nonexistent) game-stats submissions or software snags. For example, NPU's Lauryn Alba Garner has two different stat lines on North Park's Sidearm interactive stats page, because of a software glitch in the Olivet @ NPU box score. Her stat totals are correct on the HTML stats page for the Vikings, but, unfortunately, the Sidearm interactive stats page is the official one (and the one used by the CCIW and the NCAA). It'll probably take the NPU sports information office until the end of the season to correct it, because it's not as easy to correct it as it sounds.

[RogK]

updated Road Wins - Home Losses
+ 3 NPU
+ 2 IWU
+ 1 CTG
0    AUG CRL
- 1 MIL WHE NCC
- 3 ELM
Carroll has already played 5 of its 8 conference road games, while Carthage and North Park have done 4 of theirs.

[lmitzel]

North Central scored 42 pts from 3-land as they upended Carthage, 68-57.
The Cardinals got 19 pts (.944 eFG%!) and 7 rebs by Allison Pearson. Maya Walls made all three of her 3FG attempts on her way to 13 pts, adding 8 rebs. IxChel Leeuwenburgh grabbed 8 rebs in just 12:00.
Carthage was led by Amanda Larson's 14 pts, 6 rebs, 5 assists and 4 steals. Kelsey Coshun shot efficiently, getting 13 pts from 5/7 2FG and 3/3 FT.

I went back to watch this game today, and while the hot shooting from three was the big story, the Cardinals played really good defense too. Sammie Woodward and Autumn Kalis, who are averaging 14.8 and 17.9 points a game, respectively, logged a combined 16 points on 5-30 shooting last night. The Lady Reds missed a bunch of looks both down low, though the 5-20 line from beyond the arc didn't help.

I feel like North Central has had some of its best shooting nights against Carthage. The Lady Reds played zone for a little over half the game, and clearly the Cardinals took advantage while they had it, but they hit some open looks too when Carthage went man later in the game.

[Jester1390]

Rog I dont know how you feel but i think too many people when a scorer has a bad game automatically go to well she had a terrible night what was she doing she just wasnt there when in effect sometimes a player just takes that person away.

As a parent of a lock down defender who has struggled to find her offensive game. Si am biased here but i was in high school and I am maybe even more so in college.  The lack of attention for defensive players.  Now dont get me wrong scoring is important  but i have seen in high school and in college  A lot of players that might score lets say 12 in the game but their defense and turnovers to a fast break will lead to 20 points for the woman they are guarding. So they are actually a minus 8 for the game. Now there are other factors  if they have assists that lead to points helps them on the plus. On the minus did they get beat so another player fouled and sent them to the foul line to score. I have seen a few plus minus systems that some schools use to figure out the overall impact of a player.  There is a savant  here in Minnesota that has a system his website is kjasr.com he has a interesting system on how a player impacts a game for high school here in Minnesota for you basketball junkies you might want to check it out here is a sample is page is hard to navigate. When i do a number its easier in man to man you just keep tract of the heads up between the 2. if the player scores because the player had to leave to help that basket gos against the teammate she had to help. I dont use zone points against any players to many variables but it does let you know which section and player is letting the most points in.  Turnover fast break points go against player who turned the ball  over.  If you were to do plus minus this way you might be surprised some of the players that you look at score sheet and you would say hmm double figures she must be kicking ass and in actuality she might be hurting the team

Dont get me wrong my kid has had games where she has scored 25 plus and its fricking exhilarating but i can tell you its just as equally great when like last night I happened to be sitting next to the grandpa and dad of one of the other teams leading scorers that my daughter guarded the whole time that player was on the floor  and had 0 points she was upset and crying to them that she was so frustrated she couldnt do anything against her she was to damn tall to get a 3 off.  That as a dad and i know for the kid is just as satisfying.  Now of course lol as her dad I want both. 

One last question I know my daughter wont be all freshman team her offensive stats just wont be there and with Nosa having double double all the time she will be Rose-hulmans rep.  But do conferences have all defensive teams Im guessing not but thought i would ask.

Here is a sample from a recent Minnesota high school game.


TRENCH PLAYER: Callin Hake with 21 points, 110.5 pp100, and a 36 score in the 31 Club. Keep in mind Hake only played 17 minutes of the game. Prorated Hake would have scored 44.51 points and had a 69 in the 31 Club.

[RogK]

Jester1390, here is what the HCAC postseason honors were last season :
http://www.heartlandconf.org/sports/wbkb/2018-19/releases/20190226hyjo0j
There is Defensive Player of the Year. Word is probably getting around that league that your daughter may be earning consideration for this award in '19-'20. By the time a league's coaches have seen opponents twice, they should have a good idea about which players impact the game via defense.
In recent years, we on the CCIW pages have discussed how to measure team offense and defense; I think the consensus is to judge teams based on how many points they score or allow per possession. There is debate about defining a possession, namely if an offensive rebound continues a single possession or does it start a new one.
Judging from a box score, it's hard to say which individuals were best defensively. Some numbers like defensive rebs, steals and blocks are obvious, but much defense isn't. If you're at a game, you can observe great individual defense, but even then it's hard to take note of every contribution.
Your post reminds me that we also don't measure blocking out by one player that enables a teammate to grab a rebound. Coaches and players know who helps out in that manner, but the stats don't show it.
I also try to keep in mind the value of players who do much of the dribbling to get the ball upcourt against pressure. She may not get an assist, but certainly has significantly helped her team score points.

[Gregory Sager]

I've been saying for years that the CCIW should have a defensive player of the year award, and that goes for both women's basketball and men's basketball. After all, CCIW men's soccer, women's soccer, football, men's lacrosse, and women's lacrosse all split their POY awards into an OPOY and a DPOY. Why not give recognition to a defensive player of the year, even if that award isn't considered on par with the MOP?

[iwu70]

Would love to see a DPOY named each year -- men's and women's side.

'70

[Jester1390]

Lol dont know why a post on defense would bring me a negative mark but its ok  i have broad shoulders i can carry burden. Much like Rose get your licks in now as i grow and get wiser  after my freshman year posting i will be a nightmare