WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[lmitzel]

this just in :
11-1 MIL
10-2 IWU
7-5 NPU
6-6 CRL WHE
5-8 AUG CTG NCC
1-12 ELM

And that Elmhurst win looms large because it sets up a three way tie for that last spot... and NCC holds the three-way tiebreaker.

Remaining schedule for all three:

NCC: vs MIL, vs CRL, vs IWU, bye
CTG: bye, vs AUG, at CRL, vs ELM
AUG: vs WHE, at CTG, bye, vs IWU

[lmitzel]

And then I know while Rog posted these yesterday, here's the standings with what's been clinched thus far.

y-	Millikin	11-1
x-	Illinois Wesleyan	10-2
	North Park	7-5
	Carroll	6-6
	Wheaton	6-6
	North Central	5-8
	Carthage	5-8
	Augustana	5-8
e-	Elmhurst	1-12

With their win last night, the Big Blue clinched no worse than the #3 seed. Both they and Illinois Wesleyan would clinch the top two spots with wins over North Central and North Park, respectively, on Wednesday. The Big Blue can also clinch if they lose but the Titans beat the Vikings.

[iwu70]

Thanks for the report earlier on the IWU-MU game last night at the Griz.  Yes, a big disappointment for the Titans.  It was the flip-side of the beat-down the Titans put on the Big Blue earlier at The Shirk.  This time, MU led at the half by 17 or 18, and the Titans tried mightily but just couldn't dig out from that deep hole.  The truth is that Millikin is the more complete and experienced team when they play well.  They played excellent half-court defense last night and pretty much neutralized "run and jump," breaking it most times.  Olivia Lett's strategy was basically dribble drive hard to avoid traps and half-court violations, and mostly put the ball in the hands of Knudsen.  She dribbled through the full-court press numerous times, even through double-teams and traps. 

MU exposed some of the Titans' weaknesses last night:  under-sized in the paint, too much lateral dribbling and movement by Brooke Lansford, and very tight defense at the arc, not giving the Titans hardly any clean and clear looks at three.  IWU didn't do almost any of those elements I suggested they needed to do:  win the rebounding line, win the TO line (which was tied), and do some dirt with "run and jump."   The Titans didn't give up, fought back gamely in the second half, getting back to within 9 with about 2 minutes to go, but then a series of empty possessions, TOs, and the necessity to foul.  MU made the FTs.  The win was by 11.

Knudsen is a unique talent at this level, basically going where she wants and finding her shot. We'll be seeing a lot of her in the next two years in the CCIW.  IWU didn't defend her last night near as well as they did in the earlier game at The Shirk, holding her then to 6 first half points and going out to a big lead, by making threes and speeding up MU via "run and jump."  Neither of these things happened last night. 

For MU:
Knudsen 24
Staton 12
Hildebrand 10 and 7
Fox -- very good perimeter defense, and active on the boards all night, 12 rebounds

The Big Blue shooting 42%, and making threes

For IWU:
Lansford, a very difficult 16
Heller, a very strong game, 15 and 7 (perhaps IWU's future PG)
Huber 13
Powers 8 rebounds

IWU shooting only 25% from three, and too late to make much difference.

The Titan comeback in the 4Q came when Heller was shifted to PG and Lansford to the 2, with Heller slashing through the lane often for layups or getting fouled.  The Titans had very little in-out offense last night, getting the ball into the paint and kicking out to open trey shooters.  It just didn't happen.   When you get down like that on the road, in an very unfriendly environment, a different (truly awful) gym, it's hard to come back.  I give the Titans a lot of credit for their second half comeback. 

On this night, MU surely the more complete and experienced team, with much better coaching and plan than the earlier encounter at IWU.

I commented on the men's board about the Griz.  It's a awful place . . . with that Boise State floor, poor facilities, and a bad smell.  And, MU does not seem to take masking and social distancing seriously at all!   Yes, announcements, pleas are made over a PA system that one can hardly decipher.   If you have this protocol for public health purposes, surely there should be some compliance, and dare I say the dreaded word, enforcement.  None of that last night.  Of course, I was disappointed with the outcome on the court, MU surely the better team on the night.  But, one does expect decent facilities and proper public health practices . . .  I think that was the most unmasked and likely unvaccinated crowd in a large gathering that I've been in since the pandemic began.  And, as a senior citizen (yes, fully vaccinated and boosted) and someone with some underlying health concerns, I did not feel safe there.  . .  I hope MU re-visits its policies and practices regarding masking and social-distancing, with some notion of compliance and enforcement.  As I said on the men's page, I totally appreciate how NPU handles their games, with vaccinations required and monitoring as you enter the facility.  Thank you NPU and the City of  Chicago. 

I'm looking forward to the game tomorrow at The Shirk, where mask-wearing is more evident and social-distancing much easier and well-practiced.  The NPU @IWU game should be another good one.

I hope some team helps us out now, and puts a loss on the Big Blue in the remaining games. . . . otherwise, looks likely we have to return to The Griz for the CCIW women's tournament.    Maybe I'll stay home this next time. 

'70

[RogK]

iwu70, I did not notice the foul odor on the Millikin webcast.
I do object to the refs allowing front row / courtside fans to stand, which it seems they did for most or all of that game.*
There shouldn't be that sort of opportunity for in-your-face intimidation of visiting players. And I bet some of the home squad was uncomfortable when in that vicinity.
Setting all that aside, I'd think the ref on that sideline would want more room to run without concern for collisions.
*after the 1st quarter, I watched more of the Elmhurst game than the Millikin one.
iwu70, did you observe any problems related to the above?

[Gregory Sager]

I like the Griz. It has the same old-school feel as the crackerbox and the hangar, the same sense that a lot of college basketball history has been lived out between its walls. I've enjoyed watching games there, although working there as a broadcaster one is inconvenienced by the fact that the booth is way up above and behind one of the baskets.

I could do without the blue-and-gray floor, though.

[iwu70]

RogK, I did not witness that sideline issue. However, I understand what your are saying, identifying as an issue.   It was way down to my right as I was sitting with the IWU fans on the north end of the Griz.  I hear what you are saying.  The crowd was loud and rather rude . . . but that's home court advantage, I suppose.  My beef was really with the lack of masking and social distancing and no attempt at all at compliance or enforcement.  Folks were entering, paying their admissions fees, totally unmasked, clearly not planning at all to even attempt a half-assed form of masking and compliance . . .  it was all let go as if the mandate and the public health protocols were there to be observed in the breach.  I won't go to MU again if this situation persists. 

Yes, Greg, it does have that old school feeling, like Hoosiers . . .  and that does have a certain feel of tradition.  Yes, that broadcast booth must be very strange, uncomfortable up there.  But the Griz has surely outlived its modern day usefulness, with such poor facilities, poor seating for the most part . . .  and that smell, that feeling of mildew and sweat.  Of course, in winter, very hard to keep it shiny and clean, so it was rather worse for wear last night with all the slush outside and tracking in indoors. . . . not pretty.  I'm totally with you in not being a fan of that blue / gray floor . . . just like the Boise State football field, it just doesn't grab me at all.  Your floor at NPU is much nicer and has character and meaning . . .  Of course, we are spoiled at The Shirk in terms of the overall facility, now the Dennie Bridges Court, the more modern concessions area, and the many and better locker rooms.  The crew there do a great job at maintenance . . . and the performance arena with that mezzanine area round the top for watching, when a standing room only crowd, is just a great place to watch D3 basketball and other sports.  I often say that IWU is lucky to have one of the great facilities in all of D3 sports.   Keep eating those Beer Nuts . . . we are hoping for a new Fine Arts Complex, theatre and recital hall some day, perhaps also funded by the Shirk family.  We have several good sites for it, just not the major donor, naming gift as yet.  One can hope . . .

IWU'70

[Roundball999]

Covid mask mandates and other restrictions are rapidly being eliminated across the country and across the world.  Just minutes ago the NY Governor announced the State's indoor mask mandate for gatherings will end Thursday.  Among my colleagues, attitudes range from being completely fearful of Covid to complete disdain for any precautions.  Very shortly, I think we're not going to be able to rely on institutions or public policy to enforce precautions, it will be up to us as individuals to decide what actions and precautions are best for our own circumstance.

[iwu70]

Yes, Roundball, I think you are right . . . and many will pay a price in illness, hospitalization and perhaps even death, esp. if unvaccinated . . . or if another serious variant appears.  CCIW and the institutions didn't do a very good job of it all during the phase of "mandates" -- only conjoling folks with announcements . . . no meaningful attempts at compliance, vetting for vaccination or social distancing, let along a robust form of enforcement.  It's all become something of a joke and surely a source of irritation and anger between fans.  I truly appreciated attending a game at NPU recently where vaccinations were required, and clear vetting was done at the entrance.  Thank you NPU and the City of Chicago.  I hope these practices stay in place a bit longer.  We had quite a spike and surge here in McLean County, one of the worst in the country, and now waning, cases and hospitalizations dropping significantly, but deaths still being announced almost every day. . .  7-8 so far this month already, just in this one county.  As mentioned, I will be much more unlikely to attend games in person at places like how Millikin handled it last night.  It was not pleasant or safe as a basketball experience, in person.  Yes, I'm sure others have other views and behaviors. 

'70

[Gregory Sager]

RogK, I did not witness that sideline issue. However, I understand what your are saying, identifying as an issue.   It was way down to my right as I was sitting with the IWU fans on the north end of the Griz.  I hear what you are saying.  The crowd was loud and rather rude . . . but that's home court advantage, I suppose.  My beef was really with the lack of masking and social distancing and no attempt at all at compliance or enforcement.  Folks were entering, paying their admissions fees, totally unmasked, clearly not planning at all to even attempt a half-assed form of masking and compliance . . .  it was all let go as if the mandate and the public health protocols were there to be observed in the breach.  I won't go to MU again if this situation persists. 

Wow, so uncharacteristic of you. I mean, so much whine today ... you should have your own sommelier.

Of course, we are spoiled at The Shirk blah blah blah

I don't like Shirk. I'd rather watch a game at the Griz any day.

My favorite CCIW gym to visit is Carver. Great hoops aura there, what with all of the pictures of ancient Augustana sports heroes lining the walls around the gym -- and it'll always be special to me because of one of my favorite memories, the national championship that North Park won on that floor my freshman year at NPC in the last game in which Michael Harper and Bud Greer wore blue and gold. I like the hangar, too, a big, squat edifice that feels like something that the WPA assembled on Uncle Sam's dime during the Great Depression. And Faganel has a classic high-school-gym vibe that, although I'm sure it's not what Elmhurst would like to convey, I find irresistible as a fan of high-school basketball.

[GoPerry]

Yes, Roundball, I think you are right . . . and many will pay a price in illness, hospitalization and perhaps even death, esp. if unvaccinated . . . or if another serious variant appears.  CCIW and the institutions didn't do a very good job of it all during the phase of "mandates" -- only conjoling folks with announcements . . . no meaningful attempts at compliance, vetting for vaccination or social distancing, let along a robust form of enforcement.  It's all become something of a joke and surely a source of irritation and anger between fans.  I truly appreciated attending a game at NPU recently where vaccinations were required, and clear vetting was done at the entrance.  Thank you NPU and the City of Chicago.  I hope these practices stay in place a bit longer.  We had quite a spike and surge here in McLean County, one of the worst in the country, and now waning, cases and hospitalizations dropping significantly, but deaths still being announced almost every day. . .  7-8 so far this month already, just in this one county.  As mentioned, I will be much more unlikely to attend games in person at places like how Millikin handled it last night.  It was not pleasant or safe as a basketball experience, in person.  Yes, I'm sure others have other views and behaviors. 

'70

The administrators or workers at the athletic events are simply not going to enforce the masking policy if there is widespread non-compliance.  I don't blame them because it is quite plain that everyone is tired of it and simply aren't going to do it.  Witness high school basketball games where all the players wear their mask around their chin in clear violation of IHSA guidelines.  It makes the 90 second "mask timeout" in each quarter an utter joke. 

It doesn't help that Illinois is now one of only 7 or 8 states remaining with indoor masking mandates.  All the others, both red and blue states, have dropped the statewide requirement (although some are still requiring in public schools, certain cities, govt agencies etc).  So are we to believe that Covid is more dangerous when crossing the border into Illinois but I'm safer from it in Indiana? or New Jersey? Pennsylvania?  California?

'70 - don't come to King Arena because the masking compliance is terrible.  And I've seen plenty of folks on the webcasts at Shirk, EC other places without their masks on. Don't get me wrong - if the mandate is in place I wear my mask and think others should too.  But keeping the restriction in place, and going to court to do so, while there is so little adherence, really makes the whole thing nonsensical. 

Same goes for showing proof of vaccination in Chicago - it is really silly because it doesn't prove anything. 

[Gregory Sager]

Yes, Roundball, I think you are right . . . and many will pay a price in illness, hospitalization and perhaps even death, esp. if unvaccinated . . . or if another serious variant appears.  CCIW and the institutions didn't do a very good job of it all during the phase of "mandates" -- only conjoling folks with announcements . . . no meaningful attempts at compliance, vetting for vaccination or social distancing, let along a robust form of enforcement.  It's all become something of a joke and surely a source of irritation and anger between fans.  I truly appreciated attending a game at NPU recently where vaccinations were required, and clear vetting was done at the entrance.  Thank you NPU and the City of Chicago.  I hope these practices stay in place a bit longer.  We had quite a spike and surge here in McLean County, one of the worst in the country, and now waning, cases and hospitalizations dropping significantly, but deaths still being announced almost every day. . .  7-8 so far this month already, just in this one county.  As mentioned, I will be much more unlikely to attend games in person at places like how Millikin handled it last night.  It was not pleasant or safe as a basketball experience, in person.  Yes, I'm sure others have other views and behaviors. 

'70

The administrators or workers at the athletic events are simply not going to enforce the masking policy if there is widespread non-compliance.  I don't blame them because it is quite plain that everyone is tired of it and simply aren't going to do it.  Witness high school basketball games where all the players wear their mask around their chin in clear violation of IHSA guidelines.  It makes the 90 second "mask timeout" in each quarter an utter joke. 

It doesn't help that Illinois is now one of only 7 or 8 states remaining with indoor masking mandates.  All the others, both red and blue states, have dropped the statewide requirement (although some are still requiring in public schools, certain cities, govt agencies etc).  So are we to believe that Covid is more dangerous when crossing the border into Illinois but I'm safer from it in Indiana? or New Jersey? Pennsylvania?  California?

'70 - don't come to King Arena because the masking compliance is terrible.  And I've seen plenty of folks on the webcasts at Shirk, EC other places without their masks on. Don't get me wrong - if the mandate is in place I wear my mask and think others should too.  But keeping the restriction in place, and going to court to do so, while there is so little adherence, really makes the whole thing nonsensical. 

Same goes for showing proof of vaccination in Chicago - it is really silly because it doesn't prove anything.

True dat. The whole proof-of-vaccination requirement in Chicago turned out to be a total joke. I eat in restaurants all the time, and only once since the city ordinance was promulgated in early January have I been asked if I had proof of vaccination. I replied "Yes," and before I could reach into my back pocket to show my vax card to the cashier she had already started to ask for my order. So the number of times that I've shown my card to anybody remains zero. (Gee, and I even laminated it. )

The pandemic rules in this city have never made a lick of sense. This is a city where people eat out all of the time, and as a result a very large percentage of the population works in the food service industry. The economic downturn in Chicago during the pandemic has been bad enough as it is -- the sidewalks in the Loop were once full of people every weekday, and now the Loop is practically a ghost town Monday thru Friday -- and the mayor and city council knew that the damage to the city's economy and employment rate would be catastrophic and perhaps irreparable (i.e., everyone's worst fear: Chicago turns into Detroit) if they closed all of the restaurants and put all of those people out of work. So they left the restaurants open, and, since you can't eat through a mask, the city's residents have been chowing down in public places unmasked ever since governments around the world started restricting public activity in March 2020. It's self-defeating and hypocritical to put masks-and-distancing rules in place while still allowing people to eat in restaurants, but the city government thinks that it can look like it's being proactive with regard to public health while simultaneously avoiding the sabotage of a huge sector of civic commerce.

It's all just a part of the vast ridiculousness of the past two years, which will not be seen by us in retrospect as one of our finest hours as a country, no matter which side of the political equation you're on or if you're not on one or the other side at all.

[D-3 watcher]

70' you are a poor loser. The griz doesn't smell or is it an awful place. I've walked in there many times and you are just wrong. Is it the Shirk, no but not many have a Shirk. If your that scared of Covid just stay home. You knew that the university allowed fans, and what protocols would  be observed. Unless your having all your needs delivered to your doorstep, you've encountered many stores not forcing people to mask up.
I have had the shot and the booster, so I'm not downplaying Covid, it's here and it's real, but don't stick your hand in the fire then cry that it's hot. The Millikin Women just outplayed the Titan's on that night.
If the blue run the table and are fortunate enough to host, I'm pretty sure  nobody from the university will miss you, so you can mask up at home and light a candle in case the smell comes thru you laptop.
Not going out on a limb here, but with NP having injury issues, it will probably be MU vs IWU in the final game. Hopefully nobody will lose a player to "health issue's "

[iwu70]

D-3, I'm not a sore loser.  I clearly stated that MU was the better, more complete and experienced team at the Griz, several times I said this.  Of course MU outplayed IWU last Monday, esp. in the first half beat-down.  IWU did not play that well and I assessed and stated bluntly their shortcomings, which have been evident at times all season.  You can read many of my earlier posts about this if you care to.  They have clearly over-achieved at 10-2 in the league given their talent level and style of play.  My comments were about the poor conditions of the facility and the lack of public health protocols, compliance or enforcement.  I fault MU and the league for having policies that are good for public health mitigation and then not really implementing them in a strong or meaningful way.  Yes, this happens at other venues too . . . including The Shirk.  The last few weeks here in McLean County we've had a serious spike and surge due to Omicron, difficulties with hospital and ICU capacity, serious illnesses and deaths, announced almost daily.  Actually, for a few weeks, one of the highest positivity rates in the country.   I think anyone would want to be concerned about Covid still, and worried about such environments like at the Griz the other night.  I felt far more safe at NPU due to their policies of vetting for vaccination which were not a joke and were handled well, IMHO.  I give all credit to NPU and to the City of Chicago . . . even if one serious infection, hospitalization (including being on a ventilator) or death was prevented, these efforts are worth it to me. 

I share Greg's view that this will not be a happy chapter in our country's history . . . the division, the stupidity about common-sense public health measures, vaccine hesitancy, an ongoing epidemic of the unvaccinated, and now, over 900,000 deaths, leading the world -- yes, USA USA USA . . . number 1.  It is a sad chapter with much sorrow, many tears . . . and a long-lasting impact on our country, our people. 

All credit to MU's team the other night . . . turn around is fair play, and the Big Blue took it to IWU in the first half.  IWU was game and tried to climb back, but could not dig out of that big first half deficit.  If there is a silver lining for the Titans, perhaps Mia Smith discovered her PG for next season in Katelyn Heller . . . as Lansford will be graduating.  IWU got back to within 9 when Mia Smith put Heller at the PG, moving Lansford to the 2.  Heller slashing through the lane for several layups, drawing fouls and shooting FTs.  As you indicate, if MU and IWU win out, there may be another game in the CCIW tournament final that will determine the conference AQ.  That's really the only way IWU gets to the post-season dance, given their record, many losses.  MU likely has a shot as an at-large bid.  We have to admit that the CCIW women's game is down a bit this year, no team at all getting votes in the top-25 D3hoops poll for a number of weeks now. 

Yes, I'm with you that I hope no team loses a player at a crucial time due to an injury, health issue or covid infection.  I did notice that many MU players got off the floor pretty fast after the game the other night, perhaps not wanting to mingle much with that unmasked, likely unvaccinated crowd.  Perhaps Coach Lett told them to get away.  No one wants to lose a player to covid protocols at an unfortunate, important time in the season.  IWU has already had several player out in this way, so now they are back and can play on without worry or testing. . . for the rest of the season and post-season tournaments.

We'll see if some team can put another loss on MU . . . and give the Titans a chance to pull it back.  Not likely in my view, but you never know.  I'll light a candle for the Big Blue. 

More basketball to be played.

'70 

[RogK]

Carthage hosts 18-0 Wisconsin Lutheran tonight. The visitors are #15 in the latest D3hoops poll and have held every opponent under 70 pts.
WLC beat Millikin 66-56 in November.
iwu70, you may deny being a sore loser, but D-3 watcher accused you of being a poor loser, something much differenter(er).

[Roundball999]

Not to make this a Covid thread, but I practice caution about pronouncing judgement on public health protocols or even what is a common-sense public health measure.  I don't think we'll really know what worked until several years from now.  Heck, there was even an article in the NYT not long ago about how Omicron was so contagious, EVERYONE is going to get it regardless of masking, social distancing and other precautions.  The hypothesis was that was actually a good thing because given our % of unvaccinated, Omicron was a path to something like herd immunity through a comparatively non-lethal variant - so let 'er rip.  I don't know, could be plausible.  That 900,000 deaths?  Terrible but your post was a bit misleading.  We are kind of middle of the pack when normalized for population.  We're not terrible but it's sure hard to say our policies have worked better.  How about Sweden?  Their public policy was very lighthanded from the very start of the pandemic and to this point they have very low case/fatality and overall mortality rates compared to many countries including the US.   Switzerland?  They never shut down schools and mask use in schools was very limited.  Just recently their case positivity rate was over 45% and it was estimate over 10% of the population was positive with Omicron.  Yet their mortality numbers are even lower than Sweden's and starting next week all restrictions are gone.

This was kind of my point from my earlier post.  The data is all over the place, the science is changing rapidly (as it should, we're learning), and there's now ample and direct evidence that these public health controls do have an "other side of the equation" that isn't always pretty.  So I find it hard at this time to fault any individual institution's approach to the issue in the absence of any kind of global consensus for what works.  I make what I believe to be the best decision for myself and my loved ones.