WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[RogK]

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[Hoosier Titan]

I can't speak for the other teams, but IWU's talent level is definitely improving.  Were it not for the two ACL injuries to key post players this year, they would have been much more versatile.  The Titans have always had a few good players plus some role players, but the number of really good players is increasing.

Millikin, obviously, was stronger with the national championship team a couple of years ago.  North Central and Augie are each in their own way rebuilding;  I thought strikingviking's criticism of Coach Endress was particularly unfair in her first year.

It's definitely true that the CCIW women's conference is not quite at the same level as the men, but Greg's quote of their Massey rating (11 out of 42) is interesting. It's higher than I would have thought.

[strikingviking]

Whoa Whoa Whoa!  I am new to this site (per a friend) and I wasn't trying to question Coach Endress's ability.  Sorry if it seemed that way.  I was just trying to figure out why a program like Augustana who has a D1 ex head coach on the men's side (per their website), hired someone with not as much experience. 

Quote from Illinihoops4

As far as experience goes, she's already taken a team to the NCAA tournament- one that was a below .500 team when she took over.

I was just wondering how many players she lost off the Edgewood team that went to the tournament? Since they had a down year afterwards in her second year.

Did she coach somewhere prior to Edgewood, maybe I am missing something???   Sorry if I am.



Quote from skafkas

My understanding is the Bauer (North Central) cleaned house last season and I respect her desire to establish the kind of program she wants.

How many years has she been there?  I may be wrong but wouldn't those kids be her own recruits that she brought in?


Quote from Gregory Sager

You don't turn around a rock-bottom program in one year. The usual rule of thumb is that a head coach gets four years to make progress in reversing a program's fortunes.

Note to North Central's AD:  TIME IS UP!!

[RogK]

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[Fawkes316]

Strikingviking-I don't understand the connection between Sager's comment that you can't turn a bad program around in a year, and your comment to the North Central AD. Personally, I have a hard time with fans, however knowledgable, who call for a coach's job, which is how I interpret the "times up" comment.

Before this season, Emily Bauer was the most successful coach, by winning percentage, that North Central has had since Wayne Morgan coached them to a National Championship in the early 1980s. As I mentioned before, it's my understanding that she saw something she didn't like in her players, granted ones that she recruited, and decided that she needed to be clear about the standards of her program.

I think that firing or doing something to weaken Coach Bauer would be the worst thing that the North Central AD could do.

RogK-I agree that talent was down slightly this year, but I think that the overall trend has been upwards across the league since a real downturn in the first couple of years of this decade. The teams at the bottom are much more competitive than they used to be, with the exception of Augustana, and I think that they are preparing to make a comeback in the conference.

[Hoosier Titan]

Do any of you IWU fans know for sure that Brianna Baker-Carvell and Crystal Dye are returning next year? It would be based on redshirting, I guess. Was Dye a freshman in '03-'04 ? -- can't recall.

Rog,

Brianna Baker-Carvell is not returning next year, but Crystal Dye will be back.  She was a medical redshirt (both ACLs). 

Strikingviking, welcome.  You got some lively conversation going at a time when I thought we'd all be drifting off into other areas of cyberspace.  It's an interesting phenomenon that the programs that are strong in men's sports and in women's sports are not always at the same school--just look at basketball in the Big Ten. 

[Illinihoops4]

With Dye returning and a hopefully a couple post recruits, I think IWU could have another impressive season next year. I'm sure that Solari will be returning (anyone know for sure?) and with that comes rebounds. I did see her play a couple of games in high school, but I too was quite impressed with the statistics that I saw on her for those first couple of games. She'll be a force if she comes back at 100%.

Does anyone have any recruiting news from around the conference? In terms of DIII it may still be a couple weeks early as I know many kids are waiting for their financial aid packages and $$$ is always a factor.

Greg- where are those Massey rankings posted? I'm curious as to where the WIAC and the IIAC sit  on it.

[Hoosier Titan]

Solari was shooting today at Shirk and moving well.  Of course, there's a lot of rehab still to be done, but I am sure she's planning on being back.  I think it is a bit early yet to for anything to be settled for most recruits.

[Gregory Sager]

Do any of you IWU fans know for sure that Brianna Baker-Carvell and Crystal Dye are returning next year? It would be based on redshirting, I guess. Was Dye a freshman in '03-'04 ? -- can't recall.

Rog,

Brianna Baker-Carvell is not returning next year, but Crystal Dye will be back.  She was a medical redshirt (both ACLs). 

Strikingviking, welcome.  You got some lively conversation going at a time when I thought we'd all be drifting off into other areas of cyberspace.  It's an interesting phenomenon that the programs that are strong in men's sports and in women's sports are not always at the same school--just look at basketball in the Big Ten. 

Men's basketball and women's basketball are two completely different sports, and not just in name only. Don't be fooled by the fact that they both involve teams of five trying to put an oversized orange ball through an orange metal hoop. Women's sports and men's sports in general have a lot of differences on the D3 level, starting with the way in which players are recruited, and those differences carry right through to even those sports that parallel each other.

It's really no surprise at all that basketball success varies from one gender to the next at a single school, any more than it should surprise anyone that a school's football team can be successful while the baseball team struggles. So much of it all comes down to the coach.

Greg- where are those Massey rankings posted? I'm curious as to where the WIAC and the IIAC sit  on it.

The WIAC is third and the IIAC is eighth.

http://www.masseyratings.com/index.htm

[Pat Coleman]

The WIAC is fourth and IIAC is fifth -- the ratings that use Margin of Victory seem more reliable. (The lack of MOV is thanks to the BCS requirements on football rankings. Never want to use a BCS ranking if you can avoid it!)

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbw&sub=III&mid=1

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks, Pat. I was looking at the wrong page. I always prefer to use the MOV ratings on Massey over the unsweetened variety.

[Hoosier Titan]

[It's really no surprise at all that basketball success varies from one gender to the next at a single school, any more than it should surprise anyone that a school's football team can be successful while the baseball team struggles. So much of it all comes down to the coach.

Greg,

You and I are in agreement  I was responding to strikingviking's expressed surprise at the difference in level between Augustana's men's and women's program.  I am well aware that the two sports are different.

[Gregory Sager]

I can see why someone would express surprise that Augustana's women's basketball program has struggled, because Augie has always been the one school in this conference that has had more across-the-board success in athletics than have any of the other members. That makes it particularly difficult for the coaches in the few sports in which Augie has struggled.

But no matter how far behind the rest of Augie's various programs the women's basketball team currently lags, Bobbi Endress is still entitled to a fair length of tenure for her to attempt to turn the women's basketball program around.

[Fawkes316]

Men's basketball and women's basketball are two completely different sports, and not just in name only. Don't be fooled by the fact that they both involve teams of five trying to put an oversized orange ball through an orange metal hoop. Women's sports and men's sports in general have a lot of differences on the D3 level, starting with the way in which players are recruited, and those differences carry right through to even those sports that parallel each other.

It's really no surprise at all that basketball success varies from one gender to the next at a single school, any more than it should surprise anyone that a school's football team can be successful while the baseball team struggles. So much of it all comes down to the coach.

Except that a school's commitment to athletics is generally seen across the board. In years past there have been Athletic Departments that have decided to let their programs languish, in favor of a more preferred sport (sometimes for reasons I couldn't comprehend).

I don't see that happening right now. From a conference perspective the league seems to be making an effort to be nationally competitive in both men's and women's basketball, not to mention strong growth in both men's and women's soccer (I am sure there are others, but those are the one's I follow most closely). I think the committment to women's athletics has grown in the conference as Millikin and Wheaton have proven that the CCIW can produce teams capable of winning women's National Championships.

I might have doubted Augustana's commitment to women's basketball a few years ago, but I believe that the program is headed in the right direction and that's why I wouldn't consider criticizing them, other than to ask, "Why did you wait so long?" They used to be a CCIW powerhouse, but ever since Schumacher left they haven't contended (even for a little while before she left).

[Gregory Sager]

I am not denying that a school's commitment to athletics is usually seen across the board as resources allow. In fact, I pointed out that Augustana's all-sports success has been manifest over decades. However, that doesn't always translate into success in each and every sport. As I said before, a lot of it depends upon the coach. Resources aid success; they don't determine it.

As for women's sports in the CCIW in general, it's true that the league is moving forward in various sports. But the progress is piecemeal and uneven between the eight member schools, just as it is in men's soccer. Men's basketball is a different story altogether, since for decades it has performed at a very high level in national terms; and while most of the schools in the CCIW have had their downturns in that particular sport on occasion, every single one of them has at one time or another over the past twenty years been reckoned as a powerhouse in it. That's simply not the case in the various women's sports (including women's basketball), or in most of the men's sports.

Men's basketball is this conference's showcase sport because, among other reasons, all eight schools have tasted success in it at times and all eight schools very tangibly aspire to attain more success in it. Given the history of the conference and the public attention given to that particular sport, it'd be hard to expect less.