WBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Jaywatch]

Not much action on the board, probably because there were few if any surprises last night.  I got out to see the Elmhurst victory over a short handed Carthage squad, 72-64, which was Carthage's third loss in their last four games.  Carthage probably blames a long bus ride in the snow for their slow start in the game, going down 15-0 in the first five minutes against Elmhurst's smothering full court press.  Carthage then made some runs of their own, and it was a four point game by halftime, and remained about that close for most of the second half.  Both teams shot pretty well from the field, in the 45-46% range, and although Carthage's free throw percentage was only just above 50%, there were not a lot of shooting fouls called so it was not a substantial factor in the loss.  Candace Sutton was in her explosive mode for Elmhurst, scoring 20 and at just over 5' tall pulling down 7 rebounds.  Lyndsie Long added 15 and 6 rebounds, and Kelsey Monroe had 15 points and 4 steals, and generally made life miserable for Carthage's guards with her stifling defense.  With starters Katie Jarger and Carlie Janowiak out with injuries, Carthage was led by Rosie Dorn with 13, Lisa Gartelos with 11 and 5 rebounds, and Heather Gilmore with 10 points and 7 assists.

[RogK]

Hi Jaywatch, I just wrote up a review of that game but it disappeared when I hit Post. I'll try to re-compose it later in the day. Gotta work now, dang it.

[RogK]

A few thoughts to supplement your report, Jaywatch :
The game was hard-fought and well-played.
Candice Sutton is showing great senior leadership, as she completes her collegiate career. Her intensity was contagious, for sure, last night. You mentioned Elmhurst's smothering press, in which many players participated, starters and reserves. Monroe was definitely prominent.
Brittany Bobruk's 9 defensive rebounds were vital to limiting Carthage's 2nd chance scoring. And Maggie McTeague made 3 or 4 superb defensive plays near the basket, stopping what would have been easy hoops for the Lady Reds. Lyndsie Long battled with Carthage's big players.
Claire Gentry played very well down the stretch. Having her and Sutton on the floor at that stage of the contest was a sharp move by Coach Tethnie Forbes. Forbes is having quite a good debut as a head coach, isn't she.
For Carthage, Heather Gilmore and Rosie Dorn again played with much energy and good results. I think I've referred to them as freshmen in earlier posts, but that wasn't quite accurate. They are sophs, but neither played in '06-07, so they may be able to play four years, if they want. Erika Buchholz had her usual fine game.
With Janowiak on crutches (ankle sprain, I heard), Katie Klemke performed a lot of the dribbling duty for Carthage and did so effectively : one turnover in 20 minutes.

[Jaywatch]

Rog, that is an interesting combination when Sutton and Gentry play together on the floor for Elmhurst.  Sutton is not a prototypical shooting guard, but she can shoot from the perimeter and slash to the basket, plays much bigger than she is inside, and certainly holds her own in rebounding.  With her quickness, she creates match up problems for the other team's off guard.  Gentry is a prototypical point guard who looks to set up her teammates to score first, shoot second.  She handles the ball with confidence, and sees the floor well.
Didn't mean to overlook the others you mention--it was a well played game with many players contributing for both teams.

[RogK]

Not a problem that you left something for me to write about!
By the way, I don't expect Elmhurst to use Sutton and Gentry together for long stretches, but it seemed to work well, at least against one team on one night.

[RogK]

Illinois Wesleyan improved to 10-1 by stomping Augustana 90-33. Some of that is due to the fact that IWU is very good and is not shy about proving it.
Sarah Bull scored 19 in 21:00, including 5/8 threes. Colleen Caplice had 8 rebounds in 12:00 as a reserve; she's quite a good player and helps make the Titans very deep.
Lindsay Ippel had another productive evening (27 pts, 12 rebs) as Millikin tied Carthage at 8-3 by upending Wheaton 62-36. The Thunder starting five shot 2/29. Kelley Steers provided 12 pts and 6 rebs for Millikin.
Barb Williams had another big game (25, 10, 3blks, 3 stl) as North Central kept in the playoff hunt by coming back from a 32-24 deficit to defeat North Park 70-57. Amber Cibrario assisted on three straight Brianne Parra baskets to put the comeback in motion.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Illinois Wesleyan improved to 10-1 by stomping Augustana 90-33. Some of that is due to the fact that IWU is very good and is not shy about proving it.
Sarah Bull scored 19 in 21:00, including 5/8 threes. Colleen Caplice had 8 rebounds in 12:00 as a reserve; she's quite a good player and helps make the Titans very deep.
Lindsay Ippel had another productive evening (27 pts, 12 rebs) as Millikin tied Carthage at 8-3 by upending Wheaton 62-36. The Thunder starting five shot 2/29. Kelley Steers provided 12 pts and 6 rebs for Millikin.
Barb Williams had another big game (25, 10, 3blks, 3 stl) as North Central kept in the playoff hunt by coming back from a 32-24 deficit to defeat North Park 70-57. Amber Cibrario assisted on three straight Brianne Parra baskets to put the comeback in motion.

The bolded phrasing sounds like an accusation of 'running up the score' (though your incluson of the limited minutes of Bull and Caplice makes me think that was not your intent).  I've been involved in discussions on several boards about running up the score and how to avoid it (including the opinions, which I don't share, that it is the job of the losing team to get better, and 'tough beans' if the score gets out of hand).  As a youth soccer coach I've been a party to 12-0 scores in both directions, and (while I hated losing that way!) I was more embarassed to win that way - did I miss some opportunity to hold down the score?

Clearly, once the outcome is obvious, your starters should be sitting (though even there an argument could be made that they need 'game time' to prepare for tougher opponents and it would be unfair if they didn't get post-season accolades because they didn't play much).  Since the subs are competing for playing time, it seems rather unfair to keep them from showing their best.  Slow down the game?  Seems reasonable, but if that is not the normal style, are the subs getting a fair chance to show what they can do in your system?  And perhaps the ultimate: if a sub, up by 50, chooses not to score on a steal-and-breakaway, is that even more humiliating to the losing team than the extra points?

I don't know if this topic is of any interest to the (few) posters on this board, but I sure am torn on the best way to handle 'routs'.

[iwumichigander]

Illinois Wesleyan improved to 10-1 by stomping Augustana 90-33. Some of that is due to the fact that IWU is very good and is not shy about proving it.

IWU led at halftime by 33 (52-19).  The score had been tied at 9 all at the 15:30 mark.  The Titans went on a 21-2 run to produce a 19 pt lead (30-11) with 7:58 to go.  After a couple of minutes to get oxygen, the Titans went on an 18-3 run at the 5:37 mark to finsh out the half. 

I don't think you pull the starters with 7:58 to go in the 1st even with a 19 point lead.  And, I don't think a coach breaks the flow even when on an 18-3 run with another half to play.

No IWU starter played more than 21 minutes; and, for that matter, no Augie starter played more than 22 minutes.  It appears both coaches emptied their benches to finsh out the 2nd half with IWU out scoring Augie by 24 (38-14).  Maybe Coach Smith should have spotted Augie points?

Not the largest margin of victory for the Lady Titans this season whom defeated MSOE 114-40 12/29

[jdoug2]

I'm usually on the SLIAC board, hope it's ok to give my two cents on the subject of routes. I've always thought if you keep your key player's minutes down, there is not much else you can do. If players 9-12 are still too good... that's the issue of the team getting run. There is a shot clock and the subs need to play whatever system their team runs. Granted it sucks to see your team getting pressed when they are down 40pts.

[Hoosier Titan]

Hi all,

I was at the IWU-Augustana game last night and wondered if there would be any question of whether the Titans purposely ran up the score (although I realize that no one has said that).  They did not.  The Titans play up-tempo basketball, using a full court press and trapping at times.  They used it in the first half to go on the 27-0 run early in the game.  After that, they backed off and did not press, but they continued playing their style of basketball.   I think that's only fair, especially late in the season with the conference and NCAA tournaments looming.  Players need to play.  As others have noted, no IWU player was in for more than 21 minutes; Mallory Heydorn played only 17 and hardly played at all in the second half.

I don't know what the answer is, either.  It is to Augustana's credit that they did not give up trying to execute their game plan.

[RogK]

I don't have any objection to IWU scoring 90. I'm sure they could have done 125 or more, if they had the intent to run up the score.
I do feel some sympathy for the Augustana kids, especially since they are going through yet another trying season. But I don't really know if a 90-55 or 90-67 loss (if IWU had let up some on defense) would've made them any happier.

Have any of you started thinking about the all-conference team yet? I think a good argument can be made for all five IWU starters to be on it. Certainly some from Carthage, Millikin and Elmhurst, too. Barb Williams from NC and LaRae Kosreva from NP should be there.
I'm partial for Stylianee Damianides of NP being recognized for doing the point guard duties for practically every second and for being one of the better defenders in the league, but I don't know if NP gets more than one player.
Any Wheaton players? Becky Rehn / Augie?
I don't know Millikin well enough to speculate about whom Coach Kerans will nominate besides you-know-who.
Coaches usually lean toward nominating seniors if there's a close call.

[Jaywatch]

Anybody know the selection procedure?  Does the coach nominate their own players, or players from other teams?

[RogK]

Here 'tis :
V.   ALL CONFERENCE
The following format will be utilized.

A.   1st team – 5 players
2nd team – 5 players
Honorable mention team – no more than 5 additional players

B.   Each coach may nominate players from his/her team as all-conference candidates.  Coaches may not vote for their own player(s).

C.   Each vote is worth one point and each coach votes for 5 players.  In the case of a tie, there will be a re-vote to break the tie, involving only those players involved in the tie.

D.   Voting will proceed as follows:

1.   Nominations for 1st team (only), followed by a vote

2.   Nominations for 2nd team (only) and student-athletes not selected for the first team will automatically be nominated for the 2nd team followed by a vote.

3.   Nominations for the 3rd team (only) and student-athletes not selected for the second team will automatically be nominated for the 3rd team, followed by a vote.

E.   A most outstanding player is selected from the five-member first team immediately after the first team voting has been completed. 

F.   Nominations and voting for "Coach of the Year" will follow the completion of the all-conference voting.

[RogK]

More about the 15 spots for All-Conference --
While I previously opined that all five IWU starters deserve to be there (if anyone thinks one of 'em doesn't, lets hear why), it is unlikely that all five make it, unless Mia Smith can do some neat negotiating with several other voters (coaches).
Carthage, Millikin and Elmhurst all would doubtless like to see four of their own receive the honor. Already we're out of spaces, not counting the best from North Central, Wheaton, Augie and North Park.
I don't think it's clear-cut who the 15 best are. In fact, there are probably 23 or 24 that would be reasonable selections. A lot of Carthage's players fit into that description -- many have had great games here and there, but not consistently (obviously, Bernero's judgment matters here, not mine!).
What do you astute observers think?

[Jaywatch]

Roj, you are right--a team like Carthage will be a tough call because no individual player's statistics stand out, and much of the success of Carthage is due to team defensive statistics that do not show up in the individual stats.  With respect to IWU, I also doubt all five starters will make it.  I haven't seen many of their games, but one could argue that three or four of them have better statistics in conference games and would be the more obvious choices.  Statistics don't tell the entire story about a player, but it is a starting point, particularly when there are so many good players in the conference.  I would think the teams at the top of the conference would earn more selections.  So, North Park will have difficulty getting two players into the top 15.