Pool C -- 2011

[smedindy]

They qualified. They won their conference! They deserve to be there! And they did have a probationary period, like all conferences.

The 33rd team can't say they deserve to be there. They had a chance to get in, and they didn't because they didn't win their league. I know from experience. Wabash was that team last year - but two losses did them in. And because of that loss to Wash U., Wabash could not complain.

B-W could be team #33, but they lost to Capital.
St. Olaf could be team #33, but lost twice in the MIAC. Same with Bethel.
Wheaton could be team #33 but they lost twice as well.

Are those teams better than 1/3 of the team in the field? Yes.
Do they deserve to be in the field? NO!
Why? They didn't win their league and they have a second loss.

And if team 32 is Endicott or Illinois College, do you think they'd be closer than 49-0 with a Purple team anyway? Are you going to complain about THEM? Let's not be elitist which is anathema to D3.

[smedindy]

I just can't see Norwich scheming to say, "Hey let's for a conference so we can get an automatic bid!" That's comical! And I can't think of any team want to jump a conference SOLELY to get a bid. It's inane!

Is it? Explain to me why they left the Empire 8 then. Was it because they didn't respect Ithaca's academics, but they thought SUNY Maritime's academics were better to align with? Please. They bolted because they lost in the Empire 8 every year. And they joined a weak league because they wanted to win every year. You seriously don't see it?

I think you're more upset about the E8 having to scramble than anything. If it was a better fit for Norwich's student athletes then it was in the best decision for them.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Here's all the conferences that have won less than 1 out of 5 playoff games between 1999 and 2010 according to the d3 site...

USAC/Dixie  3-12 .200
HCAC        3-13 .188 (Two by Franklin in 2008)
SCIAC       2-9  .182 (Both by Occidental in 2004)
MIAA        2-11 .154
MWC         2-12 .143
NEFC        2-13 .133
ECFC        0-1  .000
NATHC       0-3  .000

Should all those conferences have their automatic bid stripped just because their conference isn't as good as others? I think we all agree that it's impossible for every conference to be perfectly equal because most conferences are based on geographical characteristics.

Sure some teams will get in with an automatic berth when they're worse than a team who got left out. I remember in 2006 when Franklin went 9-1 and their lone loss was to the conference champions who also went 9-1 but the Grizzlies were on the outside looking in.

No matter how you decide who is in the playoffs someone will get screwed. If you use the current system, then decent 8-2 or 9-1 teams may be left out for lesser teams at 6-4 with an automatic berth. If you have no automatic berths then some unbeaten team will get left out in favor of 8-2 or 7-3 teams because a team with multiple losses is in a top conference and the unbeaten is stuck with bad teams. The entire point of the playoffs is to let those who have earned their spot by being the best of their conference battle it out and show just who is the best team.

And if team 32 is Endicott or Illinois College, do you think they'd be closer than 49-0 with a Purple team anyway? Are you going to complain about THEM? Let's not be elitist which is anathema to D3.

Exactly. Let the weaker conferences have something to play for otherwise they might as well be like the NESCAC and not even bother with anyone else. Let them lose to the #1 seed rather than adding in a 3rd team from a conference to lose to the #1 seed. No one complains about a mediocre basketball team that wins the SWAC getting crushed in the first round by mighty Duke 90-33 do they?

[Mr. Ypsi]

What may cost me sleep tonight:

Following today's games, I am sure Wesley will get the B, leaving CWRU competing for a C.  IF the North Region committee leaves Case ahead of IWU (who, IMO, would be among the top 3 selected), Case with their atrocious SOS may not get picked until 6th (if at all), in which case (pun intended) the Titans never even REACH the table.

And since we peons never get to see the final RRs, I'll be nervous right up to the selection show.

[jam40jeff]

Case with their atrocious SOS

What was their SOS?  I was under the impression it was more "mediocre or a little worse" than "atrocious".

[smedindy]

Ypsi, let me talks ya down. First CWRU's SOS isn't that horrific, and it improved today.

Here's the top 2 in each region in this case:

East
1. Endicott
2. Montclair
North
1. CWRU
2. IWU
South
1. McMurry
2. Centre
West
1. Redlands
2. Illinois College

It goes like this: Redlands, McMurry, Centre...

So with pick four: you have Endicott, IC, Case and some team like BSC.

Case goes in there, IWU goes next, then Endicott or IC.

[Ralph Turner]

Ypsi, let me talks ya down. First CWRU's SOS isn't that horrific, and it improved today.

Here's the top 2 in each region in this case:

East
1. Endicott
2. Montclair
North
1. CWRU
2. IWU
South
1. McMurry
2. Centre
West
1. Redlands
2. Illinois College

It goes like this: Redlands, McMurry, Centre...

So with pick four: you have Endicott, IC, Case and some team like BSC.

Case goes in there, IWU goes next, then Endicott or IC.

I think that you are right.

[shepherd]

What may cost me sleep tonight:

Following today's games, I am sure Wesley will get the B, leaving CWRU competing for a C.  IF the North Region committee leaves Case ahead of IWU (who, IMO, would be among the top 3 selected), Case with their atrocious SOS may not get picked until 6th (if at all), in which case (pun intended) the Titans never even REACH the table.

And since we peons never get to see the final RRs, I'll be nervous right up to the selection show.

I think your pretty safe but it seems if they do something Wacky it is usually the last pick they swap around as Wheaton well knows.  Although I think with the top Purple teams having trouble getting non conference games scheduled one of these years their going to reward a two loss maybe a three loss team that plays them.  Anyway good luck while I drown my sorrows in a diet Snapple.

[smedindy]

Well, I think Wheaton is the best two-loss team. Unfortunately, that didn't help Wabash last year. Gotta win 'em to keep playin' 'em!

[smedindy]

Looks like the SOS numbers are out:

http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2011/schedule?tmpl=sos-template

Endicott looks safe.

Don't think the slight (16 spot) difference in SOS will outrank an undefeated regional record. So Case in and Illinois College out.

[shepherd]

Well, I think Wheaton is the best two-loss team. Unfortunately, that didn't help Wabash last year. Gotta win 'em to keep playin' 'em!

Wabash proved that sometimes having a bad scrimmage can be a good thing.  They were able fix their problems after the Wheaton scrimmage and Wheaton didn't see their weakness until IWU exposed it.  It just goes to show scrimmages are about fixing weaknesses and mean little else.  Good luck in the playoffs.

[ADL70]

If memory serves me, the ECFC teams are "orphans," they are in conferences that do not sponsor football.  The ECFC includes 2 other teams from Norwich's conference, the GNAC (Anna Marie, just third year of football, and Mt. Ida).

[smedindy]

Thanks, Thunder. I hope that in 2013 (when the NCAC is done with the UAA), Wabash and Wheaton can actually play a for-reals game in Week 2 (since we'll never play in Week 1).

[Mr. Ypsi]

Thanks for talking me down off the ledge, guys!

I'm still hoping that the regional committee will 'go with their best shot first' and move IWU ahead of Case, but yeah, Case's SOS is not as bad as I was remembering.  (I mixed them in my mind with Franklin, from a discussion on whether a likely 4/5 game would be at IWU, then 19th in SOS, or Franklin, undefeated IN REGION but 217th in SOS.)  Once the NATIONAL committee looks to seeding I'm hoping (and half-expecting) that three NATIONALLY 9-1 teams in the 'North' will be seeded 4. IWU (43rd) 5. Franklin (211) and 6. Case (144).  [I place Franklin over Case as the only defeats being vs. UWW or Rochester - not much of a comparison!]

[Pat Coleman]

I hop IWU over Case in my regional rankings. Just doesn't make sense to go otherwise.

Illinois Wesleyan   9-1   .540   WvWtn, LvNCtrl
Case Western Reserve   9-0(1)   .487   NA