Pool C -- 2011

[AO]

AO -

Did IC 'avoid' Wheaton? Did they say, "no, we won't play them?" Do you have PROOF of that?

Do you realize Millikin and IC have played every year since 2006? And this was the back-half of a home-and-home? You think of that before jumping to conclusions? Do you think IC wanted to be that school to break a contract? Do you think IC thought that they were scheduling solely to get a "C" when playing Millikin?

Maybe Wheaton shouldn't have played Olivet?

Whether they did intentionally or not, the reward for scheduling teams you can beat is a playoff spot.  You also help your chances when you're in a poor conference who chooses to only schedule 1 non-conference game.  A better system would be able to better recognize the strength of a team regardless of the opponents they played, giving more credence to the d3 poll and recent playoff success.

[smedindy]

AO -

More on IC. That's a team that was mediocre in their conference, and Millikin was a close-by rival team. It's an hour away on US 36. It's a very natural rival. Wheaton, not so much. Millikin played Illinois College in their FIRST EVER GAME! It was natural when they started playing them again.

Everyone thinks scheduling is SO easy and it's a nefarious plot to keep a "C" bid from an elite when a team comes out of the blue with one loss and makes the tourney, when that's very rarely the case. It's about making the best choices for your student athletes and your institution./

[Mr. Ypsi]

I noticed one 'ironic' touch - something tells me most fans in the SCIAC WISH they could complain about the expected geographical 'bean-counters screw-job' of Redlands and CalLu playing a first round rematch, rather than both flying out to UMHB and Linfield, respectively!

[smedindy]

AO -

Did IC 'avoid' Wheaton? Did they say, "no, we won't play them?" Do you have PROOF of that?

Do you realize Millikin and IC have played every year since 2006? And this was the back-half of a home-and-home? You think of that before jumping to conclusions? Do you think IC wanted to be that school to break a contract? Do you think IC thought that they were scheduling solely to get a "C" when playing Millikin?

Maybe Wheaton shouldn't have played Olivet?

Whether they did intentionally or not, the reward for scheduling teams you can beat is a playoff spot.  You also help your chances when you're in a poor conference who chooses to only schedule 1 non-conference game.  A better system would be able to better recognize the strength of a team regardless of the opponents they played, giving more credence to the d3 poll and recent playoff success.

Recent playoff success shouldn't matter. It allows for no new blood and keeps power in the elite.

Again, the polls have so much noise and ORV, there is no consensus.

They don't choose to schedule one non-conference game. They CHOOSE to play a legitimate conference schedule with a round robin. They CHOOSE to have a conference that fits with all sports and all members, not just football.

[bashbrother]

Is it normal, can't remember year's past, for there not to be seeds listed at this point?  Who are the #1's, UWW, ST. Thomas, Linfield & Mount?

Mount is the only one not listed at the top of the brackets.....  If Wabash is #1, then is N. Central a #4?

[smedindy]

It's a different format, but the NCAA never 'officially' seeds is what the mantra I remember from the past.

[Schwami]

Illinois College, seriously? 

128th SOS, needed game-tying last second TD pass and OT to beat Millikin, who lost to Wheaton yesterday 49-29.   18th ranked Wheaton with 14th ranked SOS stays home.  The blueboys know they don't deserve it over Wheaton, especially since they're in the same state.  Change is needed.

Personally I probably would have taken Wheaton ahead of SJF but I guess they do seem to be similar. As to Illinois College... I saw them as a coinflip getting in

My hunch is that Wheaton was blocked by Case and never got to the table for consideration.

[smedindy]

Illinois College, seriously? 

128th SOS, needed game-tying last second TD pass and OT to beat Millikin, who lost to Wheaton yesterday 49-29.   18th ranked Wheaton with 14th ranked SOS stays home.  The blueboys know they don't deserve it over Wheaton, especially since they're in the same state.  Change is needed.

Personally I probably would have taken Wheaton ahead of SJF but I guess they do seem to be similar. As to Illinois College... I saw them as a coinflip getting in

My hunch is that Wheaton was blocked by Case and never got to the table for consideration.

Again, the inconsistency.

One region looks at everything as a whole and leaps SJF over Endicott.
Another region bumps one team but not a second over Case.
Still another says that second loss doesn't matter since it was to a D-1AA team.
Still another says that a 9-1 team with a resume worse than Endicott's keeps its spot.

Ah, well, makes it fun, doesn't it!

[gordonmann]

We're not sure who the top seeds are. It's possible that the Mount Union and Del Val are the top seeds in the "lower" brackets (in terms of placement on the screen).

[Pat Coleman]

Is it normal, can't remember year's past, for there not to be seeds listed at this point?  Who are the #1's, UWW, ST. Thomas, Linfield & Mount?

It's normal not to have them on the initial announcement. I asked if they would provide them this year. There have been seeds available to us 11 of the previous 12 years.

[jknezek]

Pretty sure we can officially kill all talk of "regions" at this point. I think the committee is making a statement here that they will build around the best teams. There truly is no more "North" "South" "East" or "West" come playoff time. I know this has been happening for years, but the way they drew up regional 4 team pods instead of 8 team groupings really drives that point home for me. No more complaining about one region not getting a regional 1. From this point forward you are really going to try and host your pod. After that, you need to be one of the 4 best in the country. I'm sure this will lead to a whole new series of debates in the future...

[wesleydad]

jk, i like it.  makes for some real interesting 2nd round match ups.

[AO]

AO -

More on IC. That's a team that was mediocre in their conference, and Millikin was a close-by rival team. It's an hour away on US 36. It's a very natural rival. Wheaton, not so much. Millikin played Illinois College in their FIRST EVER GAME! It was natural when they started playing them again.

Everyone thinks scheduling is SO easy and it's a nefarious plot to keep a "C" bid from an elite when a team comes out of the blue with one loss and makes the tourney, when that's very rarely the case. It's about making the best choices for your student athletes and your institution./

Like I said, a better system would be able to judge IC regardless of who they played.  You can play Millikin, but you also should compare that result with how Wheaton played Millikin.  Case and IC had no business being in front of Wheaton.  The best choice for your student athletes (or the decisions that give the best shot at a pool c) is currently to schedule the teams you can beat, rather than the teams that will make your team better.

My alma mater Northwestern is currently playing St. John's with their non-conference game.  If they had gone 9-1 and had played Hamline instead of St. John's they would have a better shot at the pool c bid.  The incentives are wrong.

[Titan Q]

Pretty sure we can officially kill all talk of "regions" at this point. I think the committee is making a statement here that they will build around the best teams. There truly is no more "North" "South" "East" or "West" come playoff time. I know this has been happening for years, but the way they drew up regional 4 team pods instead of 8 team groupings really drives that point home for me. No more complaining about one region not getting a regional 1. From this point forward you are really going to try and host your pod. After that, you need to be one of the 4 best in the country. I'm sure this will lead to a whole new series of debates in the future...

Debates such as...

Why not just "count" every D3 vs D3 game?  The more the bracket is national, the stranger it seems to me to exclude certain D3 vs D3 games.   

[smedindy]

Or again, they made schedules with no regard to "C". Playing a CCIW team makes IC better, be it Millikin, Carthage or Wheaton. I can't see it's any incentive.

There's a very limited amount of non-conference games. Not every team in the MWC can play Wheaton, North Central or IWU in non-conference. There are other games, other rivals, other considerations. This was the ONE year it worked out for a "C". And that's no big whoop-de. It happened. Deal with it and move on.