FB: Southern Athletic Association

Started by Ron Boerger, October 25, 2011, 02:57:49 PM

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Ron Boerger

#75
May 30, 2012, 10:00:44 AM Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 10:04:18 AM by Ron Boerger
Recognizing it's only one measure, Forbes ranks them slightly below Hendrix (#121 overall, #28 in South).  Cost differential is huge; Berea is a "work-study" college with every student receiving a 100% tuition award.  Understandably, only 19% of applicants are admitted, a far lower rate than any SAA school.  SAT composite 1020-1270, which is slightly lower than anyone in the SAA on the bottom end; 10:1 student:faculty ratio, which is as good as anyone: 

Centre 34 [69%; 11:1; 1160-1370]
Sewanee 57 [68%; 11:1; 1160-1360]
Rhodes 75 [42%; 10:1; 1150-1380]
Hendrix 106 [81%; 13:1; 1180-1380]
Berea 121 [19%; 10:1; 1020-1270;]
Millsaps 188 [74%; 10:1; 1060-1290]
B-SC 211 [59%; 12:1; 1050-1280]
Berry 227 [67%; 12:1; 1060-1270]
Oglethorpe 468 [42%; 16:1; 1040-1240]

That cost differential is a big deal if I'm one of the other presidents, as is the fact there are five-plus kids applying for every available spot.   Also, and this seems to matter to these guys, Berea has no PBK chapter.

Shoreman

#76
May 30, 2012, 01:03:08 PM
Berea's men's and women's sports offering line up well with the SAA with the exception of M/W lacrosse and football. I wouldn't think they would be a likely candidate to add football.

We had the pleasure of staying at the Daniel Boone in once, a great place!

Ralph Turner

#77
May 30, 2012, 01:17:34 PM
Quote from: Shoreman on May 30, 2012, 01:03:08 PM
Berea's men's and women's sports offering line up well with the SAA with the exception of M/W lacrosse and football. I wouldn't think they would be a likely candidate to add football.

We had the pleasure of staying at the Daniel Boone in once, a great place!
Travel partner for Centre...

cush

#78
May 30, 2012, 02:55:45 PM Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 02:59:53 PM by cush
They would be an excellent addition for the SAA, would be surprised if it didn't happen. I would also expect expansion to 10 members to happen someday in the SAA and SCAC. I am a fan of W&L moving to the SAA, so that would be 10 with berea. The scac should add Concordia University and university of the ozarks to also get to 10.

Ralph Turner

#80
May 30, 2012, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: Shoreman on May 30, 2012, 07:23:42 PM
W & L would be a great addition.

Saw this article on the new Berry College program. http://romenews-tribune.com/view/full_story/18765136/article-Berry-football---Coach-K--putting-plans-in-motion?instance=home_page
Respectfully, I think that your desire for W&L to join the SAA is greater than the W&L's desire to leave the comfy confines of the ODAC.  There is certainly dramatically less travel in the ODAC than the SAA, which means less missed class time.

Shoreman

#81
May 31, 2012, 07:56:23 AM
Agreed but with the addition of Wash U and U Chicago would make an attractive national schedule for W & L, and I would say they would probably be one of the favorites to win the league every year.

cush

#82
May 31, 2012, 01:23:41 PM Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 02:24:02 PM by cush
W&L has the endowment to pay for travel. They and the SAA would just need to decide if the hassle of travel is worth the travel. More likely the SAA will just take berea and maybe  agnes scott and spelman but they still would need one more to get to 10 and 2 women's colleges to even things out.

jknezek

#83
May 31, 2012, 02:09:01 PM Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 02:16:50 PM by jknezek
Quote from: Shoreman on May 31, 2012, 07:56:23 AM
Agreed but with the addition of Wash U and U Chicago would make an attractive national schedule for W & L, and I would say they would probably be one of the favorites to win the league every year.

Considering Centre's traditional dominance of W&L (Centre is 36-22-2 vs W&L all time) in football (and since this is a football board I'm assuming that's what you are referring to), I don't think W&L would be much of a favorite. As much as W&L has had Sewanee's number (W&L is 38-22 vs Sewanee all time), Centre has had the Generals'.

As a W&L alum having B-SC on our schedule would be great for me getting to see more games, but unless W&L's priorities have significantly changed in the 11 years since my graduation, I highly doubt they are leaving the ODAC. I was, at one time, the sports editor of one of the on-campus newspapers. I can tell you that at the time, the Generals athletic administration had a stated goal of controlling travel in favor of class time. The ODAC was a perfect fit. While the AD and many other administrators have turned over since then, it doesn't appear that W&L goes out of their way to schedule significant travel in any sport except for one instance.

If a W&L team wins a conference championship, they are usually scheduled, as soon as feasible, for one significant trip as a reward. This doesn't show up so much in football, since we've only had 2 recent conference titles and football scheduling is different than other sports, but it was a well-defined pattern for the tennis, soccer, volleyball, and swim teams, all somewhat frequent conference champions. A recent obvious example would have been the women's basketball trip to Colorado in 2010 in the season following their last conference championship.

In my opinion, W&L's administration puts a premium on having the students in class, not on buses, and I don't expect that to change any time soon. While travel isn't necessarily an issue for football, certainly for the sports with more frequent contests the travel time adds up quickly.

As it relates to football, W&L's long term rivalries with Centre and Sewanee, plus a rotating team from the Centennial Conf, allow it to get good exposure to the vast majority of the common recruiting grounds, west, south and north respectively, while providing a simple solution to football's somewhat difficult scheduling. Especially now that the ODAC is up to 8 football playing members.

I would be very surprised to see W&L in the SAA unless something dramatic changed in the ODAC first...

updated to include W&L v Centre and W&L v Sewanee historical records compliments of the W&L athletics web site....

SUADC

#84
May 31, 2012, 02:23:27 PM Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 02:43:10 PM by SUADC
Quote from: jknezek on May 31, 2012, 02:09:01 PM
Quote from: Shoreman on May 31, 2012, 07:56:23 AM
Agreed but with the addition of Wash U and U Chicago would make an attractive national schedule for W & L, and I would say they would probably be one of the favorites to win the league every year.

Considering Centre's traditional dominance of W&L in football (and since this is a football board I'm assuming that's what you are referring to), I don't think W&L would be much of a favorite. As much as W&L has had Sewanee's number, Centre has had the Generals'.

As a W&L alum having B-SC on our schedule would be great for me getting to see more games, but unless W&L's priorities have significantly changed in the 11 years since my graduation, I highly doubt they are leaving the ODAC. I was, at one time, the sports editor of one of the on-campus newspapers. I can tell you that at the time, the Generals athletic administration had a stated goal of controlling travel in favor of class time. The ODAC was a perfect fit. While the AD and many other administrators have turned over since then, it doesn't appear that W&L goes out of their way to schedule significant travel in any sport except for one instance.

If a W&L team wins a conference championship, they are usually scheduled, as soon as feasible, for one significant trip as a reward. This doesn't show up so much in football, since we've only had 2 recent conference titles and football scheduling is different than other sports, but it was a well-defined pattern for the tennis, soccer, volleyball, and swim teams, all somewhat frequent conference champions. A recent obvious example would have been the woman's basketball trip to Colorado in 2010 in the season following their last conference championship.

In my opinion, W&L's administration puts a premium on having the students in class, not on buses, and I don't expect that to change any time soon. While travel isn't necessarily an issue for football, certainly for the sports with more frequent contests the travel time adds up quickly.

As it relates to football, W&L's long term rivalries with Centre and Sewanee, plus a rotating team from the Centennial Conf, allow it to get good exposure to the vast majority of the common recruiting grounds, west, south and north respectively, while providing a simple solution to football's somewhat difficult scheduling. Especially now that the ODAC is up to 8 football playing members.

I would be very surprised to see W&L in the SAA unless something dramatic changed in the ODAC first...

Even though a good part of the Centennial (South affiliated) conference is in Pennsylvania, which is above the mason-dixon line, I would hold off on saying that they have exposure up north, the last time they actually played a team up "North" was in 2004 & 2005 and that was Alfred. They have played Franklin and Marshall from the Centennial over the last couple years and before that Johns Hopkins (Maryland=South). However, I did see Case Western (Ohio) on the schedule at some point which is categorized as a North team. But as far as exposure maybe sometime over ten years ago. 

jknezek

#85
May 31, 2012, 04:23:40 PM Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 04:36:54 PM by jknezek
W&L tends to be a regional team. The directions of west, south and north are simply directions from W&L, not indications of where the schools fall in the grand scheme of the country. Certainly no one would consider Centre to be from the west of the U.S. But with the current affiliations of Centre, Sewanee and a Centennial team, W&L travels to regions where most of its recruits come from, allowing most parents to see students play off campus with less travel at least twice in any 4 year cycle. Add in the parents weekend game, which is a big deal at W&L and an event that most of W&L's parents attend religiously, whether the parents of an athlete or not, and you will concievably see your kid on the sidelines or the field at least 6 times in any 4 year cycle. At least that was the intention when I was on campus and, since scheduling has rarely budged from this configuration, what I would expect going forward.

While a signficant number of recruits do come from the Northeast, probably the least served region, W&L has a reasonable strategy of spreading out in likely to be recruited areas. Part of the reason W&L is so poorly served in the Northeast is the loss of Swarthmore as a partner. We played Swarthmore through most of the 90s and then tried to replace them with the series with Alfred, which didn't last beyond a home and home for whatever reason.

Below are W&L non-conf games that weren't in VA or the traditional Sewanee/Centre games. Only 3 of the last 16 years didn't include at least one Centennial team. The loss of Davidson as a traditional game after '99 and Swarthmore after '00 are really the only deviations in a dwindling non-conf schedule (the ODAC went from 6 to 8 teams over this time period adding Catholic and now Shenandoah, while the schedule went from 9 to 10 games). With only 3 non-conf games, I expect Centre, Sewanee and mostly a Centennial team to remain on the schedule for the forseeable future.

It is interesting to note that from 2005 to 2011 the Centre/W&L game went unscheduled. I was happy to see this game resume in 2011, even though it did not play out in the Generals' favor, and hope it will continue. Sewanee has been on the schedule every year since 1955 and I hope they always will be. These two games represent stability and good challenges among very similar institutions for all 3 teams. The stand-ins that W&L scheduled for Centre over that period were... not as appropriate.

2011 F&M and Alma
2010 F&M and Juniata
2009 F&M and Greensboro
2008 F&M
2007 F&M & CMU
2006 F&M & CWRU
2005 Alfred & CWRU
2004 Alfred & Greensboro
2003 JHU & Greensboro
2002 JHU & Greensboro
2001 JHU & Greensboro
2000 JHU & Swarthmore
1999 JHU & Davidson & Swarthmore
1998 JHU & Davidson & Swarthmore
1997 JHU & Davidson & Swarthmore
1996 Ursinus & Davidson & Swarthmore
1995 Davidson & Swarthmore


** schedule info compliments of the W&L athletic website

Shoreman

#86
June 01, 2012, 02:28:24 PM
Sewanee fills out schedule w/ a game vs. Willamette U

http://www.willamette.edu/athletics/teams/football/

Ron Boerger

#89
June 30, 2012, 11:39:10 AM
Centre ranked #12 in Lindy's preseason poll (despite losing star QB/RB) and have been making the most of it on Twitter:

1h Centre Football ‏@CentreFootball Last big recruiting day of the summer. We can't wait to show some of the top recruits what a #12 program is all about. ‪#PEV‬

14h Centre Football Centre Football ‏@CentreFootball Another great recruiting day for @CentreFootball! #12 ‪#PEV‬

23 Jun Centre Football Centre Football ‏@CentreFootball Another big day for @CentreFootball. Big time recruits on campus today!

22 Jun Centre Football Centre Football ‏@CentreFootball Big day for the #12 team in the nation. We can't wait to show some of the top recruits in the area what we're all about!

21 Jun Centre Football Centre Football ‏@CentreFootball http://t.co/uLe0T92J

20 Jun Centre Football Centre Football ‏@CentreFootball @CentreFootball ranked #12 in Lindy's Preseason Poll! ‪#PEV‬
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