Are the Purple Powers bad for D3?

[warhawkguard]

If I may chime in just a bit on this great and informative discussion:

Title 1X is great for the girls, but they should just exempt the football numbers from it so besides football, all else would be equal. That way non-football men can still participate in sports that were cut. Like was stated, football pays the bills for everyone else.

When I was in HS, I was recruited by the likes of Carthage, Carroll, Ripon, Macalester, and then a few WSUC schools. The Badgers stunk back then. So, after visiting the others, I actually decided upon UWRF because I seemed to fit into their option offense well. The other schools felt like big High Schools. Their stadiums and facilities were, in some cases, actually inferior to my High School. Then, the small schools were almost triple in cost. For what? To graduate with the same degree with triple the debt??? After 1 year at UWRF I was STILL broke and went to the Army to get my college fund. After seeing UWW facilities, there was nothing in the state that could compare except Madison. The choice is easy. It still is. Most kids here don't have 20k per year available to pay for these "better" schools. MONEY is huge. Most of us poor kids could barely afford college as it was. The rich kids can have their little private schools that Daddy pays for. We all know that there a lot more poor kids than rich kids.

Any talented kid in the state today is an IDIOT is they don't pick a WIAC school if they can't get a scholarship somewhere. We lose many of our best to the strong Michigan programs of the MAC. The WIAC gets the leftovers/ no-rides.

Another HUGE factor is the programs themselves. If UMU cuts football tomorrow what will happen? Somebody will instantly hire Larry K as coach. He will bring most of his staff. Even if the previous team stunk, they would instantly field a better team than before. Soon, that new team would be a national power. Even with a sucky stadium. The Coaching staff is enormous when considering why UWW or UMU keeps succeeding. Lose the staff and then UWW would return to just being a good team I bet like when I was there. We were good. Never great. Great stadium didn't make us any better.

As long as the big teams don't steal Larry or Lance for the big bucks, the Purple Powers will remain. How often do highly successful coaches get stolen away from smaller programs?? Enjoy it as long as we can I guess.

[WashedUp]

The vast majority of D2/D3 kids stay in-state Smed. I don't know what the financial incentive is in Wisconsin or Minnesota. But if you aren't going D1 on scholarship, you are probably looking to save money on your college education however possible. Staying in state is usually a big cost saver for most US states.

That doesn't stop Cortland from grabbing 2 or 3 kids from New Jersey. But as a rule, you usually play ball in-state.

That isn't true at every college.  Carleton, for example, had a roster that was split about 50/50 last year in state vs. out of state and had players from 16 states and Kenya.  St. Olaf has had a pretty steady pipeline from Florida for several years and had 22 from Florida (and one from the Bahamas) on the team this last year.  Gustavus, on the other hand, is in the same conference and is almost exclusively MN kids.  It seems to me like teams reflect where the coaches choose to focus their recruiting efforts rather than a rule that you always play in state.

As FB24 pointed out, this is less a case of "where the coaches choose to focus their recruiting efforts" than it is a matter of certain high-academics schools (Carleton included) being nationally-ranked liberal arts institutions that, both by choice and necessity, recruit their student bodies from coast to coast rather than locally, student-athletes included. Likewise, some schools such as Wheaton and North Park draw students nationally for religious reasons.

That may be the case for Carleton, but how do you explain St. Olaf having 22 kids from Florida on their roster?  I doubt it's because Olaf has to go to Florida to find enough players that meet their religious/academic profile to fill a roster.

[Mr. Ypsi]

WashedUp,

It is not really unusual for schools to have a 'pipeline' to some area that seems otherwise inexplicable.  My gut hunch would be that an Ole alum is a high school coach in Florida, and most of the recruits are from his area/conference.  (Though there are other scenarios as well.)  Such pipelines are often self-perpetuating at least for a time, as players go to play with their friends/former teammates.

[DGPugh]

a quick glance at the flo-rida native St Olaf kids suggest they are mostly (not all) from the greater orlando-central fl region... probably got a former player or alumni who teaches/coaches or is active in that area ?
keep the faith

[Hawks88]

... 2 and about to be 3 NAIA's, and 2 D-3's   

Who is the 3rd NAIA?

[WashedUp]

a quick glance at the flo-rida native St Olaf kids suggest they are mostly (not all) from the greater orlando-central fl region... probably got a former player or alumni who teaches/coaches or is active in that area ?
keep the faith

I'm not exactly sure what the reasoning is and there haven' been any Olaf posters on these boards recently that can verify, but this still shows that a presence in the area can steer athletes towards a certain school.

[DGPugh]

Hawks88- brother, i pray yall are well and had a wonderful CHristmas

Point University, will move to west point Ga (part of it's campus looks to be in AL, while the bulk looks to be about a 1/5 mile from the line. not far from yall.

it was called Atlanta CHristian College, in East Point, Ga, but moving to West Point,/ Lanett, Al

keep the faith
and Go Hawks

[Ralph Turner]

IMHO, Huntingdon would dominate the USA South in football, but why travel another 180 miles past Hot-lanta to get there!

And DG, may I be the first to wish you a Happy New Year and Geaux Tigers!  (Beat the Tuscaloosa Institute of Lower Education.)

[DGPugh]

Ralph Turner - OBI Wan, I pray you are well and yall also have a most wonderful New Year.

..."Beat the Tuscaloosa Institute of Lower Education", if i recall correctly (and i am wrong more that right) you have a daughter that graduated from the lovliest village on the plains...and if so, that  might expalin your correct and astute discription of the Tuscalooser school for Ursidae worship.
i hope the Honey Badger is hungry and takes what he wants

wish we could get into USA South 

Keep th faith
Go Hawks
(and if i remembered correctly, please tell those in the family War Eagle)

[middlerelief]

I do not know if it is good or bad for Division III football.  I have heard many rumors...

It's best not to spread them. Read Mr. Ypsi's post.

BTW, Mr. Ypsi, it seems like there is some sport-by-sport reporting of that kind.

Does the NCAA release some sort of spreadsheet or data on this?

Don't know - recently Hobart got hit with something - both Lax and football programs but it wasn't a sevre thing as they were still post season eligible.

Like anyone I get suspicious when a team that was sub .500 suddenly goes on a 7 year run but if anything was wrong it would have been found by now.

Bottom line - the conferences (WIAC, ASC, and OAC) need to become more competitive - then the regional powers need to have a break through - I'm sure the other coaches and players don't like it either - so do the necesary prep and recruiting to change it.

[middlerelief]

One piece of evidence would be the STagg Bowl attendance in my opinion.

Both of these programs seem to draw very large home crowds - but yet avg. 5k in STagg Bowl seats - seems their own fans take it for granted as regular season outdraws the big dance.

My guess - if other programs break into that game, they will draw more because there will be more excitement.

[Hawks88]

DGP,
I knew about Point, just didn't think about their new campus technically crossing the state line.
Hope you guys have a had great Christmas and have a Happy New Year.

Go Hawks, War Eagle and (week after next) Geaux Tigers!

[DGPugh]

Hawks
i probably shouldn't have brought Point up, but it is on the line.
i wonder how this will affect La Grange as they are just 17 miles apart.
keep the faith
Go Hawks and Geaux Bayou Bengals

uh...and UWW and Mount are a good thing for D-3 (to keep our discussion on point)

[ncc58]

. (I have no idea how ILGator came up with "FISH" instead of "FIB" in terms of how the cheeseheads refer to those of us who live on the more cosmopolitan side of the Halas-Lombardi Line, although it's not hard to figure out the acronym. )

FIB is the older term; the more common term in Wisconsin these days is FISH. With in-laws in Milwaukee and a child at a UW school, I may be more exposed to it than you are.

[emma17]

One piece of evidence would be the STagg Bowl attendance in my opinion.

Both of these programs seem to draw very large home crowds - but yet avg. 5k in STagg Bowl seats - seems their own fans take it for granted as regular season outdraws the big dance.

My guess - if other programs break into that game, they will draw more because there will be more excitement.

Hmm, if a new program breaks into the Stagg that doesn't draw well in the regular season do you really feel they will draw more in the Stagg where they have to travel to VA?  I know that the weather in the previous Staggs (2008 and 2009 for sure) has played a role in a lower turnout, and then the Friday night game impacted many others. 

As for getting suspicious because of UWW's run, the players you see on the UWW roster are excellent DIII players, but I sure don't see obvious examples of kids that should/could be playing higher divisions but "somehow" ended up on UWW's roster.  UWW is getting top DIII players from WI and IL because of the success started from the 2005 and 2006 teams, which were made up a special group of WI kids (and a small number of special IL kids).    From youth football to the pros, you see teams that have a special group of players that come through- and it cycles.  Right now UWW is attracting top high school/non scholarship kids because those kids want a shot at championships.  However, some of these kids will go elsewhere as they may feel they will play sooner at another school.  When that school gets enough of those players and everything else is in place (which is happening now), you will see greater variety of national champions. 
And this is why UWW v Mt is a good thing for DIII because it's raising the bar of quality play.