Title IX: Good, Good, but..., or Bad

[Mr. Ypsi]

emma17 - yes, an oversimplification.

Title IX was passed BEFORE the boom in women's (and girl's) sports, but was a result of feminist pressure.  (Little League, for example, didn't allow girls until 5 years after Title IX (which didn't directly effect LL), but only in response to a federal lawsuit - they also added LL softball.)  It really is a chicken and egg dispute about girl's (women's) interest in sports and Title IX, but I strongly suspect that the boom in girl's (women's) interest would not have occurred as quickly without Title IX.

Since women now outnumber men (by far) in colleges, I am agnostic on the continued need for Title IX.  Today the trend seems to be for colleges to add football in order to attract MALE students.  But make no mistake, at the time of Title IX, it was very much necessary.  When I was in hs (early 60s) and when I was in college (late 60s) there were NO girl's or women's sports offered.  (I was enlightened on this subject early on, since by far the best athlete in my neighborhood growing up was a girl!   She had no teams to play on. )

[Mr. Ypsi]

When the marketplace fails to produce an outcome favorable to certain persons, some of those persons often turn to the practice of politics in an attempt to get their way.

Frank,

If 'the marketplace' were the ONLY consideration, we would still have 'Negro' slavery and 7-year-olds working in factories.

Because of attitudes like yours, thank God for politics!

[frank uible]

Have I said anything which is untrue?

[Knightstalker]

Have I said anything which is untrue?

Nope, like usual Frank, you hit the nail right on the head.

[smedindy]

But for the greater good, corrections like this need to be made. Maybe society has evolved, maybe it has not. I don't want to know what would happen if the Civil Rights Acts or Voting Rights Acts disappeared.

I've beat this to death. I fear that if you remove Title IX, you remove women's sports. ADs already are doing insane things in the name of the holy football BCS dollar - basically ripping apart their entire athletics departments rivalries and continuity, increasing travel and overhead just to play for something mythical.

[emma17]

When the marketplace fails to produce an outcome favorable to certain persons, some of those persons often turn to the practice of politics in an attempt to get their way.

Frank,

If 'the marketplace' were the ONLY consideration, we would still have 'Negro' slavery and 7-year-olds working in factories.

Because of attitudes like yours, thank God for politics!

Mr. Ypsi- I usually enjoy and agree with your posts, but not this one.  Do you really believe this?  Do you really believe we would have negro slavery today and 7 yr olds in factories?  Do you really believe that about this country? 
I sure hope this was tongue in cheek.  People and societies evolve, they always have. 

[emma17]

But for the greater good, corrections like this need to be made. Maybe society has evolved, maybe it has not. I don't want to know what would happen if the Civil Rights Acts or Voting Rights Acts disappeared.

I've beat this to death. I fear that if you remove Title IX, you remove women's sports. ADs already are doing insane things in the name of the holy football BCS dollar - basically ripping apart their entire athletics departments rivalries and continuity, increasing travel and overhead just to play for something mythical.

So like Mr. Ypsi you don't know what would happen if the Civil Rights Act or Voting Act disappeared?  Really?  You think a country with the ethnic/racial/gender diversity we have would go back to what?  Slaves?  Blacks riding in the back of the bus?  Women unable to vote?  Come on man- this is a form of paranoia is it not? 
You don't know if the country evolved?  There are youth and high school sports for women because it was the right thing and there was a demand.  There is now a supply to meet the demand.  That's how it works.

[Jonny Utah]

When the marketplace fails to produce an outcome favorable to certain persons, some of those persons often turn to the practice of politics in an attempt to get their way.

Frank,

If 'the marketplace' were the ONLY consideration, we would still have 'Negro' slavery and 7-year-olds working in factories.

Because of attitudes like yours, thank God for politics!

Mr. Ypsi- I usually enjoy and agree with your posts, but not this one.  Do you really believe this?  Do you really believe we would have negro slavery today and 7 yr olds in factories?  Do you really believe that about this country? 
I sure hope this was tongue in cheek.  People and societies evolve, they always have.

Mr. Ypsi's point is valid.  The majority cannot decide for the minority all the time.  We cannot (or shouldn't) run a society like we do the marketplace.

But is it fair to compare slavery and the opportunity to vote to womens sports?

[Jonny Utah]

But for the greater good, corrections like this need to be made. Maybe society has evolved, maybe it has not. I don't want to know what would happen if the Civil Rights Acts or Voting Rights Acts disappeared.

I've beat this to death. I fear that if you remove Title IX, you remove women's sports. ADs already are doing insane things in the name of the holy football BCS dollar - basically ripping apart their entire athletics departments rivalries and continuity, increasing travel and overhead just to play for something mythical.

So like Mr. Ypsi you don't know what would happen if the Civil Rights Act or Voting Act disappeared?  Really?  You think a country with the ethnic/racial/gender diversity we have would go back to what?  Slaves?  Blacks riding in the back of the bus?  Women unable to vote?  Come on man- this is a form of paranoia is it not? 
You don't know if the country evolved?  There are youth and high school sports for women because it was the right thing and there was a demand.  There is now a supply to meet the demand.  That's how it works.

You just said youth and high school sports for women exist because "it was the right thing" and "there was a demand".  "The right thing" would be subjective and "there was a demand" would be what the majority wants.

So if a College President said it was the right thing for his university to get rid of women's sports because there is no demand you would be ok with that?

[emma17]

When the marketplace fails to produce an outcome favorable to certain persons, some of those persons often turn to the practice of politics in an attempt to get their way.

Frank,

If 'the marketplace' were the ONLY consideration, we would still have 'Negro' slavery and 7-year-olds working in factories.

Because of attitudes like yours, thank God for politics!

Mr. Ypsi- I usually enjoy and agree with your posts, but not this one.  Do you really believe this?  Do you really believe we would have negro slavery today and 7 yr olds in factories?  Do you really believe that about this country? 
I sure hope this was tongue in cheek.  People and societies evolve, they always have.

Mr. Ypsi's point is valid.  The majority cannot decide for the minority all the time.  We cannot (or shouldn't) run a society like we do the marketplace.

So you think the majority of people in this country would revert to slavery and child sweatshops and also prevent women from working?

[emma17]

But for the greater good, corrections like this need to be made. Maybe society has evolved, maybe it has not. I don't want to know what would happen if the Civil Rights Acts or Voting Rights Acts disappeared.

I've beat this to death. I fear that if you remove Title IX, you remove women's sports. ADs already are doing insane things in the name of the holy football BCS dollar - basically ripping apart their entire athletics departments rivalries and continuity, increasing travel and overhead just to play for something mythical.

So like Mr. Ypsi you don't know what would happen if the Civil Rights Act or Voting Act disappeared?  Really?  You think a country with the ethnic/racial/gender diversity we have would go back to what?  Slaves?  Blacks riding in the back of the bus?  Women unable to vote?  Come on man- this is a form of paranoia is it not? 
You don't know if the country evolved?  There are youth and high school sports for women because it was the right thing and there was a demand.  There is now a supply to meet the demand.  That's how it works.

You just said youth and high school sports for women exist because "it was the right thing" and "there was a demand".  "The right thing" would be subjective and "there was a demand" would be what the majority wants.

So if a College President said it was the right thing for his university to get rid of women's sports because there is no demand you would be ok with that?

That college president doesn't constitute a majority and that president would have to answer to the majority of students, faculty and alum. Good luck to that college president.

[Jonny Utah]

When the marketplace fails to produce an outcome favorable to certain persons, some of those persons often turn to the practice of politics in an attempt to get their way.

Frank,

If 'the marketplace' were the ONLY consideration, we would still have 'Negro' slavery and 7-year-olds working in factories.

Because of attitudes like yours, thank God for politics!

Mr. Ypsi- I usually enjoy and agree with your posts, but not this one.  Do you really believe this?  Do you really believe we would have negro slavery today and 7 yr olds in factories?  Do you really believe that about this country? 
I sure hope this was tongue in cheek.  People and societies evolve, they always have.

Mr. Ypsi's point is valid.  The majority cannot decide for the minority all the time.  We cannot (or shouldn't) run a society like we do the marketplace.

So you think the majority of people in this country would revert to slavery and child sweatshops and also prevent women from working?

No and that wasn't his point.

[Jonny Utah]

But for the greater good, corrections like this need to be made. Maybe society has evolved, maybe it has not. I don't want to know what would happen if the Civil Rights Acts or Voting Rights Acts disappeared.

I've beat this to death. I fear that if you remove Title IX, you remove women's sports. ADs already are doing insane things in the name of the holy football BCS dollar - basically ripping apart their entire athletics departments rivalries and continuity, increasing travel and overhead just to play for something mythical.

So like Mr. Ypsi you don't know what would happen if the Civil Rights Act or Voting Act disappeared?  Really?  You think a country with the ethnic/racial/gender diversity we have would go back to what?  Slaves?  Blacks riding in the back of the bus?  Women unable to vote?  Come on man- this is a form of paranoia is it not? 
You don't know if the country evolved?  There are youth and high school sports for women because it was the right thing and there was a demand.  There is now a supply to meet the demand.  That's how it works.

You just said youth and high school sports for women exist because "it was the right thing" and "there was a demand".  "The right thing" would be subjective and "there was a demand" would be what the majority wants.

So if a College President said it was the right thing for his university to get rid of women's sports because there is no demand you would be ok with that?

That college president doesn't constitute a majority and that president would have to answer to the majority of students, faculty and alum. Good luck to that college president.

I think you are missing my point here emma.  At one point, the "majority", and college presidents and colleges did not want womens sports, and didn't provide the opportunity for women to play sports, so the governemnt stepped in and basically told them that they had to provide opportunity for women (if they wanted to accept public funds).  The majority lost out with Title 9, as they may have done with various civil rights issues.

[frank uible]

What was his point? That I have a certain bad attitude? What attitude might that be, and where have I expressed it?

[Jonny Utah]

What was his point? That I have a certain bad attitude? What attitude might that be, and where have I expressed it?

I don't think that was his point either.  You are right in what you said, and Mr. Ypsi was just pointing out that politics isn't always a bad thing.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but that is the way I understood it.