FB: Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference

[Yanks 99]

Yanks 99

Why always the negative comments?
Have you read Pat Coleman's latest article on ranking the Nation Conferences this season.
I think his assessment on the quality of the MASCAC is a move in the right direction.

Yanks does love to hate on the New England football schools.

Hate is probably a strong word...general dislike maybe?

All kidding aside, I just don't think these conferences have done or shown enough to be considered for a Pool B/C bid.  Not even close.  Not to the detriment of other strong conferences regionally and nationally where 2nd place teams aren't getting in.

[Bombers798891]

Yanks 99

Why always the negative comments?
Have you read Pat Coleman's latest article on ranking the Nation Conferences this season.
I think his assessment on the quality of the MASCAC is a move in the right direction.

Yanks isn't being negative. He's being accurate, he's just telling you things you don't want to hear. The way these conferences form is ridiculous, and the way they schedule is laughable. Absolute bottom feeders from other conferences (W. Conn and Norwich) are immediately competing and winning these new conferences.

Norwich went 7-0 in the ECFC in 2011. Hartwick went 0-7 in the E8 in 2011. And Hartwick beat Norwich 37-14 that year. The worst team in the E8 walked all over the ECFC champ like it was nothing. Norwich's playoff spot that year was an absolute joke. Why should we be positive about bad teams that make it to the playoffs by taking their ball and going home with a bunch of teams as bad as they are in order to basically game the system? You look at how St. John Fisher did it. They were a doormat too. But they didn't go skulk off and join up with a bunch of other struggling teams. They kept at it and now they've built their program into a playoff contender.

That's why we're negative. Rather than building the program to win at a higher level, these schools just lower the level the program needs to compete at to win. No one can take away the playoff spot. But no one has to respect the way it was achieved either.

[ECoastFootball]

I think the ECFC is different. It was made from brand new programs, and a bad Norwich team. Norwich won the league because everyone else had been playing football for 4 or less total years.

The MASCAC wasn't a bunch of teams that finished 9-16 in the NEFC, it was all of the State schools wanting to form their own league, a league that already exists (and is the oldest conference in the country) in all other sports. I agree that this league should NEVER  receive a second bid. I understand that all 3 (ECFC, NEFC, and MASCAC) conferences are bottom tier, but I hate when people throw the ECFC teams in these arguments because as big as the Gap is from the LL or NJAC to the MASCAC, that's how big the gap honestly is between the ECFC and the other NE leagues. The team that wins the ECFC struggles every year with the last place team in the other leagues.

[Yanks 99]

I think the ECFC is different. It was made from brand new programs, and a bad Norwich team. Norwich won the league because everyone else had been playing football for 4 or less total years.

The MASCAC wasn't a bunch of teams that finished 9-16 in the NEFC, it was all of the State schools wanting to form their own league, a league that already exists (and is the oldest conference in the country) in all other sports. I agree that this league should NEVER  receive a second bid. I understand that all 3 (ECFC, NEFC, and MASCAC) conferences are bottom tier, but I hate when people throw the ECFC teams in these arguments because as big as the Gap is from the LL or NJAC to the MASCAC, that's how big the gap honestly is between the ECFC and the other NE leagues. The team that wins the ECFC struggles every year with the last place team in the other leagues.

Not being a wise guy here...serious question...what evidence are you using to determine that the MASCAC is that much stonger than the ECFC?

[ECoastFootball]

I have seen games live from both leagues, and I have seen games between teams from the two leagues. Plymouth may not win a game in the MASCAC this year, and I saw them live physically overpower on both sides of the ball Mt Ida, who won the ECFC last year and is picked to win it this year. Last year Mt Ida beat UMass Dartmouth 24-21 on a FG as time expires. Ida went on to win the league, UMD went on to go 1-9 in the NEFC.

[AUPepBand]

I have seen games live from both leagues, and I have seen games between teams from the two leagues. Plymouth may not win a game in the MASCAC this year, and I saw them live physically overpower on both sides of the ball Mt Ida, who won the ECFC last year and is picked to win it this year. Last year Mt Ida beat UMass Dartmouth 24-21 on a FG as time expires. Ida went on to win the league, UMD went on to go 1-9 in the NEFC.

Pep "hears" that Gallaudet has a solid team this year....easily handled UR, which then nipped Springfield, 36-35, a team that demolished Mount Ida 41-0. Not sure why the Mustangs were picked to win the ECFC.

[Bombers798891]

The MASCAC wasn't a bunch of teams that finished 9-16 in the NEFC, it was all of the State schools wanting to form their own league, a league that already exists (and is the oldest conference in the country) in all other sports.

That's a fair point, but I think there's still frustration over the end result, not to mention some of these team's reliance on ECFC teams as OOC fodder.

Let's look at last year's and the four year records of the schools in the conference

Framingham: 10-2, 31-13
Bridgewater: 9-2, 28-13
W. Conn 1-8, 3-36
Plymouth State 2-8, 20-21
MMA, 5-4, 18-20
Fitchburg State 2-8, 9-31
Worcester State 6-4, 20-21
Westfield State 3-7, 20-20
Mass-Dartmouth 1-9, 9-31

Two good teams, three horrible ones, and four that were pretty mediocre. Normally, I'd say this is a standard conference, just a bit weaker. But the thing is, most of them had schedules largely self-contained to the NEFC and ECFC, which sort of factors into the overall record. The two good teams have made forays into the NJAC (which is just an okay conference in its own right) but they haven't exactly made waves in doing so. Losing to Rowan isn't the worst thing in the world, but no one's hanging their hat on a win over W-P either. And the better W. Conn looks the worse the conference looks. Let's be honest: If they go 7-2 or 6-3 overall, you're treading in the whole "Bottom feeder comes in and makes noise" water.

I don't know, I just think it's sort of lame. At-large bids are a nightmare sometimes in D-III, but this trend away from them is, like Yanks said, hurting the brand. I mean, look at Curry-Wick in 2007. If you don't have at-large bids, your impression of the E8 that year is "The E8 champ getting spanked by Curry at home? Bad conference" But because we have at-large bids, we see that, oh yeah, the second place team won two games in the NCAA and the third place team nearly outscored all 10 of Mount's previous opponents combined.

Does D-III football benefit when a team like '07 Ithaca or Fisher replaced by a team that wins a bad conference?

[Pat Coleman]

The MASCAC wasn't a bunch of teams that finished 9-16 in the NEFC, it was all of the State schools wanting to form their own league, a league that already exists (and is the oldest conference in the country) in all other sports.

The MIAA is the oldest conference in the country, now in its 126th season.
http://www.miaa.org/landing/index

The MASCAC was founded in 1971.
http://www.mascac.com/information/office/history/index

[ECoastFootball]

The MIAA is the oldest conference in the country, now in its 126th season.
http://www.miaa.org/landing/index

The MASCAC was founded in 1971.
http://www.mascac.com/information/office/history/index

I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood the MASCAC release. The quote I read was: "The Massachusetts State Collegiate Athletic Conference, the nation's oldest Division III men's and women's playing conference, has a rich and storied tradition of competitive success while celebrating excellence in the classroom." I guess it's the oldest with the lady sports? And I think we all love us some Women's lacrosse!
http://mascac.com/sports/fball/2011-12/releases/MASCAC_Football_Announcement

[Yanks 99]

The MASCAC wasn't a bunch of teams that finished 9-16 in the NEFC, it was all of the State schools wanting to form their own league, a league that already exists (and is the oldest conference in the country) in all other sports.

That's a fair point, but I think there's still frustration over the end result, not to mention some of these team's reliance on ECFC teams as OOC fodder.

Let's look at last year's and the four year records of the schools in the conference

Framingham: 10-2, 31-13
Bridgewater: 9-2, 28-13
W. Conn 1-8, 3-36
Plymouth State 2-8, 20-21
MMA, 5-4, 18-20
Fitchburg State 2-8, 9-31
Worcester State 6-4, 20-21
Westfield State 3-7, 20-20
Mass-Dartmouth 1-9, 9-31

Two good teams, three horrible ones, and four that were pretty mediocre. Normally, I'd say this is a standard conference, just a bit weaker. But the thing is, most of them had schedules largely self-contained to the NEFC and ECFC, which sort of factors into the overall record. The two good teams have made forays into the NJAC (which is just an okay conference in its own right) but they haven't exactly made waves in doing so. Losing to Rowan isn't the worst thing in the world, but no one's hanging their hat on a win over W-P either. And the better W. Conn looks the worse the conference looks. Let's be honest: If they go 7-2 or 6-3 overall, you're treading in the whole "Bottom feeder comes in and makes noise" water.
I don't know, I just think it's sort of lame. At-large bids are a nightmare sometimes in D-III, but this trend away from them is, like Yanks said, hurting the brand. I mean, look at Curry-Wick in 2007. If you don't have at-large bids, your impression of the E8 that year is "The E8 champ getting spanked by Curry at home? Bad conference" But because we have at-large bids, we see that, oh yeah, the second place team won two games in the NCAA and the third place team nearly outscored all 10 of Mount's previous opponents combined.

Does D-III football benefit when a team like '07 Ithaca or Fisher replaced by a team that wins a bad conference?

Bombers...you called it.  West Conn tub thumping Bridgewater State (generally considered by far the second best team in the MASCAC) pretty much immediately throws the MASCAC into the "bottom feeder comes in and makes noise" water.  And like that...all discussion of a possible Pool C or Pool B bid should absolutely end.

[ECoastFootball]

Bombers...you called it.  West Conn tub thumping Bridgewater State (generally considered by far the second best team in the MASCAC) pretty much immediately throws the MASCAC into the "bottom feeder comes in and makes noise" water.  And like that...all discussion of a possible Pool C or Pool B bid should absolutely end.

I don't know that you can say the worst team in the NJAC is doing damage, BWater played them already, William Paterson, and thumped them. I think West Conn is a team benefiting from playing in an easier conference for sure, but also from getting better. They are in their second year with their new coach who had previously built Otterbein from nothing to something in the OAC, and they have a tailback transfer from an ACC school starting.

PS There is one way and one way only the MASCAC deserves a bid this year. If Framingham finishes 9-1 (only loss @ Rowan) and Rowan wins the NJAC at 8-2 (losses to Del Val and Wesley), then there is nothing wrong with Framingham getting in. If Rowan finishes 2nd or 3rd in the NJAC, however, the MASCAC will (and should) go without a bid.

[Yanks 99]

Bombers...you called it.  West Conn tub thumping Bridgewater State (generally considered by far the second best team in the MASCAC) pretty much immediately throws the MASCAC into the "bottom feeder comes in and makes noise" water.  And like that...all discussion of a possible Pool C or Pool B bid should absolutely end.

I don't know that you can say the worst team in the NJAC is doing damage, BWater played them already, William Paterson, and thumped them. I think West Conn is a team benefiting from playing in an easier conference for sure, but also from getting better. They are in their second year with their new coach who had previously built Otterbein from nothing to something in the OAC, and they have a tailback transfer from an ACC school starting.

PS There is one way and one way only the MASCAC deserves a bid this year. If Framingham finishes 9-1 (only loss @ Rowan) and Rowan wins the NJAC at 8-2 (losses to Del Val and Wesley), then there is nothing wrong with Framingham getting in. If Rowan finishes 2nd or 3rd in the NJAC, however, the MASCAC will (and should) go without a bid.

Come on...seriously?  I know already that someone will say I am just being completely down on the MASCAC (and I am a little bit)...but how is the worst team from the NJAC over the past half decade NOT doing damage right now in the MASCAC?

Who is West Conn going to lose to the rest of the way?  They played even with Framingham and absolutely destroyed Bridgewater.  They are, at worst, the second best team in the conference.

The whole "I think West Conn is a team benefiting from playing in an easier conference for sure, but also from getting better" argument is tired.  Really?  Well no kidding.  Five wins in half a decade, and all of a sudden they are just good and "getting better".  They have blown out two MASCAC teams (Bridgewater and Plymouth) and an NEFC team (Nichols), and the other game was a loss against Framingham...by 2 points when West Conn failed on a two-point try in the 4th quarter.  Getting better?  They are dominating now in the softest or second softest conference in the entire country.  Maybe I am old school a bit...but how is that getting better?

Even if Rowan wins the NJAC this year...which is going to be a relatively down year for the entire conference...all I would need to do is look at Framingham's schedule and say you are hanging your hat on a loss to Rowan and a two-point win over your "probable" second place team in West Conn (who by all accounts should win the remainder of their games this year and finish at 8-1) who has only won five games total over the past five seasons?  Not good enough for a Pool C or Pool B bid...not even close...

[ECoastFootball]

The whole "I think West Conn is a team benefiting from playing in an easier conference for sure, but also from getting better" argument is tired.  Really?  Well no kidding.  Five wins in half a decade, and all of a sudden they are just good and "getting better".  They have blown out two MASCAC teams (Bridgewater and Plymouth) and an NEFC team (Nichols), and the other game was a loss against Framingham...by 2 points when West Conn failed on a two-point try in the 4th quarter.  Getting better?  They are dominating now in the softest or second softest conference in the entire country.  Maybe I am old school a bit...but how is that getting better?

Even if Rowan wins the NJAC this year...which is going to be a relatively down year for the entire conference...all I would need to do is look at Framingham's schedule and say you are hanging your hat on a loss to Rowan and a two-point win over your "probable" second place team in West Conn (who by all accounts should win the remainder of their games this year and finish at 8-1) who has only won five games total over the past five seasons?  Not good enough for a Pool C or Pool B bid...not even close...

Here is all I am saying, West Conn would not be the worst team in the NJAC this year. Bridgewater throttled Willy P to prove that. Also, They have played a good Framingham team and beaten a decent Bridgewater team, but their other 2 wins are against the worst team in the NEFC and the worst team in the MASCAC. The Bridgewater win was a huge win for them sure, but I still don't think (hope maybe?) West Conn runs the table. Although that being said, their RB is nasty.

[Yanks 99]

The whole "I think West Conn is a team benefiting from playing in an easier conference for sure, but also from getting better" argument is tired.  Really?  Well no kidding.  Five wins in half a decade, and all of a sudden they are just good and "getting better".  They have blown out two MASCAC teams (Bridgewater and Plymouth) and an NEFC team (Nichols), and the other game was a loss against Framingham...by 2 points when West Conn failed on a two-point try in the 4th quarter.  Getting better?  They are dominating now in the softest or second softest conference in the entire country.  Maybe I am old school a bit...but how is that getting better?

Even if Rowan wins the NJAC this year...which is going to be a relatively down year for the entire conference...all I would need to do is look at Framingham's schedule and say you are hanging your hat on a loss to Rowan and a two-point win over your "probable" second place team in West Conn (who by all accounts should win the remainder of their games this year and finish at 8-1) who has only won five games total over the past five seasons?  Not good enough for a Pool C or Pool B bid...not even close...

Here is all I am saying, West Conn would not be the worst team in the NJAC this year. Bridgewater throttled Willy P to prove that. Also, They have played a good Framingham team and beaten a decent Bridgewater team, but their other 2 wins are against the worst team in the NEFC and the worst team in the MASCAC. The Bridgewater win was a huge win for them sure, but I still don't think (hope maybe?) West Conn runs the table. Although that being said, their RB is nasty.

Agree to disagree, I guess...

[Pat Coleman]

I think it's fair to say that Western Connecticut is both getting better and facing easier competition. We predicted the Colonials would go 6-3 this season based on those factors and I think that's still possible.