BB: Top Teams in West Region

[Bishopleftiesdad]

TexasBB,
I have to disagree, yes the west is geographically challenged, which is a disadvantage, but this over looks other advantages the west AND south usually have over the the Northern colleges. Generally the west schools can start much sooner and spread their games out. If you include practices, the west and south gets much more outside baseball in than the northern schools. The spirit of D3 is inclusion, You do not treat student athletes different than non athletes. You do not have separate rules from one region to another.  That is D3.
This has been discussed many times over the years. So while the west may be spread out, and the north and east compact, the west has a longer season time wise, and the North and East season is shorter.
The rules have to apply the same to all. Last year UW-stevens point almost got through the west, they played in the championship, and while IWU was 2 and que, they lost 1 run games. If the teams flown in were getting blown out, then the NCAA should look at how they pick teams, but last year anyway, the west regional was competitive, with two northern teams.
If they make adjustments for the west because of the Geographic issues, what concessions would they make to the other regions? Do they correct the weather issues by having a national opening day? Lets say March first. No games are to be played before that date and practices cannot start until February? No, I am sure the presidents in the west would not want to do that. Those young men would miss too much school.
In other words you want to guarantee the west two pool C bids?
There is no good way to fix it. It is what it is.

[Westside]

If they make adjustments for the west because of the Geographic issues, what concessions would they make to the other regions? Do they correct the weather issues by having a national opening day?

I am struggling to understand that these points are related at all. The argument would be the same if everyone started on the same day...


In other words you want to guarantee the west two pool C bids?

When they are deserving, yes. As someone that has been following the West closely for more than five years, it is tiring seeing teams deserving of bids getting left at home. It makes sense if teams from the West generally struggled on the national stage, but they don't. It makes sense if non-West regional teams came in and won the Region, but they don't. In terms of population, the West region makes up nearly 1/3 of the country. In general, the quality of play is a lot higher than other conferences (top to bottom). I really think it makes sense to have six teams from the West, when they are deserving. Of course all of this is different if there aren't teams deserving of making the regional.

Just last year for example, the committee chose to bring in IWU, with a 24-20 record. You are telling me that it makes sense that they got in over George Fox, who went 28-12, is 15 miles away from the regional site, and beat Linfield (who won the regional) twice. I watched every game of that regional and I can say 100% George Fox would've been the 2nd best team there.

At the end of the day, our opinions don't really matter. I just wish we at least could see the reasoning the committee has each year.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Well you say the west is generally better top to bottom. Is part of that because they get more time outside? Get more practices per Game?

There are deserving teams that get left home every year, in almost every region, this is not just a west regional issue.

Currently winning percentage is not one of the criteria I believe. Otherwise many of the east teams would load up on tomato cans and come in with unbelievable records, there would be a lot more 30 win teams out East, so if win percentage were a criteria I am not sure that would result in 6 west teams in the regional.

Yes the a national opening day (I do not want one, by the way) would not change things for the Northern teams, but it would give the west some of the same disadvantages that the east has, sort of leveling the playing field.

Westside it sounds like you want to use the eye test, correct me if I am wrong. There is no way the eye test could be used on a National level. I know having SOS as a criteria is problematical and due to geography the West SOS is driven toward 500. I am not sure there is a good fix that will make anyone happy.

[TexasBB]

The west has 4 main conferences and the west regional has 6 spots. So you have the 4 conference champions and two at large pics. That means giving a berth to the next best two teams. I cannot think of any year in which the west did not deserve 2 at large teams. I recall when UTT, TLU, Ozarks and others had won over 30 games, were ranked in the top 25 nationally, and stayed home.

We are talking about a total of 6 teams for the entire region. The fact that the weather is warmer and they play longer (but no more games) has nothing to do with anything. That is true with baseball at any division. The northern and eastern schools make up for it by traveling south and play games during spring break. They also fit in more games in April. An arguement can be made that playing a lot of games in April gives them an advantage, as they have to develop and use more pitchers. Also the hitters are seeing more game time at bats in a compressed time.  Historically DIV III has had a majority of its champions from the north and east as opposed to DIV I which has been southern dominated.  A lot of that has to do with playing alot of games in a compressed time frame. A typical Texas team in April will play 1 game on a Weds (non- conference) and a 3 game set on the weekend. They use 4 starters and a few relief pitchers. When they get to a double ellimination tournament, they often run out of pitchers. Pitching wins tournaments. Those that have developed it and are deep win. Those that rely on 3 or 4 main starters and one or two in releif, no matter how good they are, come up short. The Eastern schools are forced to develop more pitching because of the schedule.

JMO

[Bishopleftiesdad]

I agree Texas, It can be an be an advantage for pitching. I just do not think you can guarantee two Pool c bids for the west and say to the other regions, sorry. there is no way the NCAA would go for it.
It comes down to the way the teams are being chosen, Some criteria needs to be used beside what region you are in. Besides saving all west slots for west teams what would you suggest?

[108 Stitches]

To interrupt this message D3 baseball just announced that UTT will host the West Regional.

I booked a hotel some time ago on the rumor, now my team just needs to play better to get there.... 

Should be a great site BTW excellent facility and plenty of hotels in the area.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2015/04/texas-tyler-to-host-regional

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Thanks, I hope they announce the other regions soon. 108 you are never an interruption, your input is always valued. We are just beating the dead horse we always beat this time of year.

[TexasBB]

I would save the slots for all the divisions for teams from those divisions. If a division tournament has 8 teams, then there was reason for assigning 8 to that division. Usually it is based on the number of teams making it up. So if there is enough teams to support an 8 team division then that division should get 8 teams.  Therefore, I would stop sending teams outside of the divisions their from. Of course what I really would like to see is more inclusion. Expanded number of teams. That of course is $$ issue.

Had a son that played at UTT a decade ago. Great college and facility. Glad they are hosting it this year!

[Westside]

I noticed the release for the hosting says: The tournament will feature four or six teams, depending on the assignments handed out by the NCAA committee.

Is there actually a chance they would only have four teams? Seems farfetched, but you never know.

Looks like a great spot to host.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

So you are for all regionals being only for teams in that region?
The mid east is usually an 8 team regional, so all teams would come from the Mid East?

[TexasBB]

Yes, that is what I am saying. All 8 teams from the mid-east would come from that region. From what I understand, they base the region size by the number of teams that play in that region. Mid-East has more teams than the west so there are more spots. It would make sense that 8 teams come from that Mid-East and play in the mid-east regional. Keeps travel costs down as well.

[SoCalSoxFan]

To interrupt this message D3 baseball just announced that UTT will host the West Regional.

I booked a hotel some time ago on the rumor, now my team just needs to play better to get there.... 

Should be a great site BTW excellent facility and plenty of hotels in the area.

http://www.d3baseball.com/notables/2015/04/texas-tyler-to-host-regional

Excellent, thanks for the update. 

[108 Stitches]

There are endless arguments to this problem. Wining your conference is the only guarantee to keep playing. One of the reasons conference tournaments are good at the D3 level as they are more or less Regional tournaments and the "Regionals" are more like Super Regionals in D1 ball.

Since there are a preponderance of teams in the East you would think that the NCAA would have a ratio of Regional teams to slots, but since I have not looked at this I am not sure if this is the case, knowing the NCAA I doubt it.  The real issue comes to national rankings to get to the top 54 teams, because a Crash points out, SOS is a problem in the West because of the distances and conferences like the ASC have 36 conference games. Then again you have to look at the level of play also in 2013 there were three top 10 teams in the West Regional, which is a bit crazy, but that is just the way it is in D3 baseball land.

[TexasBB]

"There are endless arguments to this problem. Wining your conference is the only guarantee to keep playing. One of the reasons conference tournaments are good at the D3 level as they are more or less Regional tournaments and the "Regionals" are more like Super Regionals in D1 ball."

Winning your conference is the only guarantee. Nobody can argue with that. However, how you determine a conference champion is an issue. Most now rely on the conference tournament as the decision maker which cheapens the regular season champions accomplishment.

Second, just about all of the DIV I schools have conference tournaments as well, so the analogy to the Regional does not hold up.   DIV I just has more money and the NCAA puts more emphasis on it. They play 30% - 50% more games as well. Most DIV III schools play about the same number of games that a Texas HS plays.  Not sure why NCAA III limits the number of games at DIV III the way they do. Could be that the institutions themselves place the limit since it is non-scholarship and thus considered an extra curricular activity. 

Certainly the schools in the S, SW and California, due to the weather, could play a lot more games than they do. The lure of DIV II, NAIA and even JUCO in Texas hurts D III recruiting because of the number of games are limited. That may also explain why the S and SW do not dominate DIV III like they do the other divisions. 

[108 Stitches]

Winning your conference is the only guarantee. Nobody can argue with that. However, how you determine a conference champion is an issue. Most now rely on the conference tournament as the decision maker which cheapens the regular season champions accomplishment.

Second, just about all of the DIV I schools have conference tournaments as well, so the analogy to the Regional does not hold up.   DIV I just has more money and the NCAA puts more emphasis on it. They play 30% - 50% more games as well. Most DIV III schools play about the same number of games that a Texas HS plays.  Not sure why NCAA III limits the number of games at DIV III the way they do. Could be that the institutions themselves place the limit since it is non-scholarship and thus considered an extra curricular activity. 

Certainly the schools in the S, SW and California, due to the weather, could play a lot more games than they do. The lure of DIV II, NAIA and even JUCO in Texas hurts D III recruiting because of the number of games are limited. That may also explain why the S and SW do not dominate DIV III like they do the other divisions.

A conference tournament is seeded and that is what the regular season provides, as well as the ability to get a Pool C bid based on accomplishments. IMO opinion it makes the whole season relevant, and makes for more exciting games. There is nothing better than tournaments when the marbles are on the line, the kids like it, coaches like it, and fans like it, not a lot of downside IMO.

I get that D1 has conf tournaments, but in effect they are "Regionals" in D3 ball...actually mini-regionals if that makes any sense.

This is why W teams are not more prevalent in D3 ball. (actually as a % it is quite high)

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?err=1&msa=0&mid=zvcgG4s_D8gc.k5vtCpj2bJ-k