BB: Top Teams in West Region

[dp643]

You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

[tigerfan_2001]

You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons.

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.

There are two ways to get a bid. Win the tournament or Pool C. Trinity qualified for the tournament today and with the strong east this year, there isn't much of a difference between SCAC east top 3.

The other way is to get a pool C. To guarantee that, you need 6 losses or fewer. TU tried to keep it at that number by throwing their top 2 midweek. HSU is 15-14 and southwestern is 10-20. HSU appeared to be the better team so you throw your top guys then.

Once you qualify for the tourney, try and get the pool C bid. Don't be bitter bc it isn't conventional.

[forheavendial4999]

Thanks motorman.

I think that the reason that we don't have the depth at pitching in this part of the country is all of the pitching talent that goes to the 38 JUCO's that play baseball in Texas.

Those guys are trying to make it in the bigs, and they have not gotten the invitation to go to D-1.

At age 18 education can happen after your dream has been snuffed out.  You can get your associates while you are still on the radar of the scouts, probably play more games in the JUCO's than in the same time period at D-III, and not lose that window at age 18-19.

There are JUCOs in other states too, ya know. So I don't buy that being something that hurts Texas uniquely. I do think the reduction of possible games played in D-III is a harm, and said so at the time. Most people shouted me down for it, saying it was good for competition, fairness and the like.

[tigerfan_2001]

@dial

Thanks for that quick history lesson about TU not ever accomplishing JACK. I wasn't aware.

TU played 5 games last week and have two studs on the mounds. They can only pitch 3 games, which they did. What difference does it make if they threw against HSU or SU? Lucero doesn'harare an arm that bounces back and Klimesh does.

Sorry us Texas fans don't know how to play baseball like you do. Maybe one year we will figure it out. Maybe, just maybe we will find a way to get lucky and win a regional. Until then, congrats on being superior to us TU fans.

[108 Stitches]

Ralph,

Trinity has two good potential #3, 4 starters. Bentz got the L yesterday because of errors, he would be a #1 or 2 on a lot of teams, he has been used more as a late inning guy, anyone who has seen him pitch knows what I am talking about. Fink had one bad outing and otherwise has been solid. They have plenty of additional arms. They have been grooming one freshmen who has number 1 stuff, but has also had a few bad outings, but he is learning college pitching and is getting better, he had a no hitter through 4 yesterday. They have another freshmen who has been clocked in the low 90's that has been playing mostly in the field and has seen limited innings and has a 1.5 ERA and could pitch a lot more. They are working through some issues, which is what you want to do prior to getting to the tournament. 

People forget that TU took 2/3 from a very good hitting Centenary team with the bullpen. (Klimesh got the W in one after he came in to close a game and gave up a HR for the tie in the top of the 9th and TU came back and won it in the bottom) 

As Crash posted, sometimes teams get flat or go through a funky period, and Trinity actually has been a little flat for a couple of weeks. They got a wake up call yesterday and came out playing like a top team today.

[Ralph Turner]

You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

dp643, you flamed me for giving my reasons after I respectfully asked you how you would have used the TU staff if you had been coach.  I was not trying to be ridiculous about this. I wanted a good conversation about how you pitch to the schedule that TU had over the last 2 weeks.

I outlined what Coach Scannell had for a schedule and how he used his pitchers. I agreed with that and I would agree with a similar use of McMurry pitchers with the same abilities, timing and opponents.

[forheavendial4999]

@dial

Thanks for that quick history lesson about TU not ever accomplishing JACK. I wasn't aware.

Well I was confused when you apparently thought there was something about which one should be bitter re: Trinity baseball.

TU played 5 games last week and have two studs on the mounds. They can only pitch 3 games, which they did.

Not really true, unless you're talking about complete games.

What difference does it make if they threw against HSU or SU? Lucero doesn't har an arm that bounces back and Klimesh does.

I would think the difference would be obvious. You probably wouldn't have lost two conference games and you wouldn't have put yourself behind the power curve on pitching for those games.

[forheavendial4999]

Heaven you are an ignorant bully. You have no idea what you are talking about; if you had some intelligent comments mixed with your spite it might be interesting, but it is quite clear you are not capable of rational thought. All you do on this site is spew hatred mixed in with ignorant ravings. Were you beat as a child? I imagine you were a also schoolyard bully as a child also. When you develop the ability to think and post something rational come on back, but until then go beat up some one else. I am not sure if this site has an "ignore button", but I am just going to ignore you from now on.

I'm sorry you are unable to debate me with facts and ideas and have to resort to this.

If you want examples of how breaking with conventional pitching strategy worked, check out the 1997 and 1999 Mideast regionals.

I am 100% rational, and that's why you don't like me. I don't make any attempt to cowtow or sugarcoat for the benefit of popularity because it's foolish to care. This is a message board, not a fraternity mixer. I'm not trying to get into a club. So I don't care if I'm the guy that takes the proverbial bullet for saying what others are thinking and what is rational and factual.

The fact is that Scannell took a foolish chance and now has completely unnecessarily put his team at risk. Winning 3 vs. Southwestern and losing 2 vs. HSU would have been a preferable result to what actually happened.

I love how the Lone Star lovers are trying to make this seem like spite or bitterness now when none of their teams have ever accomplished anything that would inspire either. It's even funnier that the one program that actually has won a regional from the state doesn't have a legion of sunshine pumpers on this board. Maybe you Tigger lovers could learn from them.

[CrashDavisD3]

ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)

[forheavendial4999]

ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)

If you were to rank the region how would you go? CUA 1, Pacific 2, then UTT or Trinity 3/4, then some order of Tx Lu, Linfield, Whitworth, UTD, La Verne after that?

[Ralph Turner]

ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)

1) CTX
2) Trinty TX
3) Pacific
4) UTD (They took 2 of 3 from UTT and have played a tougher schedule)
5) SCAIC winner (ULV?  What a mish-mash?)

[dp643]

You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

dp643, you flamed me for giving my reasons after I respectfully asked you how you would have used the TU staff if you had been coach.  I was not trying to be ridiculous about this. I wanted a good conversation about how you pitch to the schedule that TU had over the last 2 weeks.

I outlined what Coach Scannell had for a schedule and how he used his pitchers. I agreed with that and I would agree with a similar use of McMurry pitchers with the same abilities, timing and opponents.

I told you exactly what I would do. I would pitch Klimesh and Lucero at most 2 innings, so they can get some work, and then have them both available for the conference series. You could start either in each game vs HSU and go 2 innings, or you could have each of them close vs HSU for two innings. Either way, I have them 100% ready to go for a CONFERENCE series.

Now can you answer my question on how you would react if Byington used his #1 and #2 in a midweek series before a conference weekend?

Coach Scannell has done this for years, and he has gotten away with it for years. Every single year we faced Trinity's big guns in a mid week series. This year it finally backfired, and he (and Trinity fans for that matter) should be able to take the scrutiny that comes with it. When you are ranked #1 in the country you get placed under a microscope. This time Scannell played with fire, and got burned.

[forheavendial4999]

ASC - Concordia-TX(24-6) Texas-Tyler(22-7)
SCAC - Trinity-TX(25-6)
SCIAC - La Verne(22-10)
NWC - Pacific (16-9)

1) CTX
2) Trinty TX
3) Pacific
4) UTD (They took 2 of 3 from UTT and have played a tougher schedule)
5) SCAIC winner (ULV?  What a mish-mash?)

I'm inclined to give Pacific a pass for their start because I really don't think many D-III teams would fare well playing 7 games against D-II teams all on the road in Hawaii in a 4 day period.

[infielddad]

You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

dp643, you flamed me for giving my reasons after I respectfully asked you how you would have used the TU staff if you had been coach.  I was not trying to be ridiculous about this. I wanted a good conversation about how you pitch to the schedule that TU had over the last 2 weeks.

I outlined what Coach Scannell had for a schedule and how he used his pitchers. I agreed with that and I would agree with a similar use of McMurry pitchers with the same abilities, timing and opponents.

Coach Scannell has done this for years, and he has gotten away with it for years. Every single year we faced Trinity's big guns in a mid week series. This year it finally backfired, and he (and Trinity fans for that matter) should be able to take the scrutiny that comes with it. When you are ranked #1 in the country you get placed under a microscope. This time Scannell played with fire, and got burned.

dp,
It comes across that you and forheaven are the penultimate second guessers.
By your own words, Coach Scannell has done this "for years, and he has gotten away with it for years."
Actually, he has done this for years and "his players" have responded to each challenge and gotten the job done more often than not.
If you and forheaven want to continue to show, by second guessing 13 years of averaging 30 wins per year by one week where you call his coaching "foolish," that probably reflects more on the poster making the comments than the strategy.
Baseball is a game of failure.
If, as you say, Coach Scannell has done this for years and it has been successful for years, then he  he is a very fine coach who knows his players, believes in his players and challenges them to succeed in each game. In a game of "failure," constant success with the same strategy over many years is proof of quality in baseball, not proof of being "foolish."
If 4 games this past week makes him "foolish" in your eyes and those of forheaven, as contrasted your readily acknowledged years of success with this approach, the concession coupled with your "ah hah,"  does, in my view, say far more about you and forheaven stretching and "flaming" in your efforts to get  to flawed and "foolish" conclusions.
You and forheaven are beating the pitching choices to a pulp to try and support some position you completely undermined by acknowledging it has worked for years.
The plain and obvious fact is they didn't hit and didn't pick it to support whatever pitcher was on the mound in whichever game.
If they swing the bats and field the ball, they probably win all 5 this week, even with the challenges of Tuesday travel.

[forheavendial4999]

You would never justify and defend Byington if he threw McMurry's #1 and #2 midweek for a full outing and they werent available for a weekend conference series (or it only left one of them available).

dp643, you flamed me for giving my reasons after I respectfully asked you how you would have used the TU staff if you had been coach.  I was not trying to be ridiculous about this. I wanted a good conversation about how you pitch to the schedule that TU had over the last 2 weeks.

I outlined what Coach Scannell had for a schedule and how he used his pitchers. I agreed with that and I would agree with a similar use of McMurry pitchers with the same abilities, timing and opponents.

I told you exactly what I would do. I would pitch Klimesh and Lucero at most 2 innings, so they can get some work, and then have them both available for the conference series. You could start either in each game vs HSU and go 2 innings, or you could have each of them close vs HSU for two innings. Either way, I have them 100% ready to go for a CONFERENCE series.

Now can you answer my question on how you would react if Byington used his #1 and #2 in a midweek series before a conference weekend?

Coach Scannell has done this for years, and he has gotten away with it for years. Every single year we faced Trinity's big guns in a mid week series. This year it finally backfired, and he (and Trinity fans for that matter) should be able to take the scrutiny that comes with it. When you are ranked #1 in the country you get placed under a microscope. This time Scannell played with fire, and got burned.

Same here. I might have gone a little longer than 2 IP with Klimesh and Lucero...should be able to be on a 50 pitch count and be fine for 3 days later even with an arm that doesn't bounce back well. If they're on that could be 3-4 innings.