BB: Top Teams in West Region

[forheavendial4999]

Is this Forehaven guy for real? You my friend need to follow baseball a little bit more before coming up with that analysis. A sweep of a conference series in baseball no matter of the score is huge. Even non contenders who are just playing out the season can steal a game in a series very easily here and there in all divisions of baseball. Its baseball, not basketball or football.

Bam- Don't question what you don't know. While it is often harsh, his assessments are usually spot on. It just so happens that when he attacks your team/conference/region, posters tend to get a little bent out of shape about it.

Probably because he does attack, and in a disrespectful manner. There's little to be gained by being a jerk and a lot to lose, in terms of respect, perhaps posting privileges.

Are you for real? I know you don't like me but jeez. Read the thread. I'm the one being told I don't know anything, being told to "shut my trap and crawl into whatever hole I came out of", etc. ad nauseam ad infinitum. Not that I care, it's all really quite boring to me, certainly not exciting enough to go looking for examples from outside this thread. But I am pretty shocked to see myself be the one that is the target of veiled ban threats. Well, shocked might be a lie, considering it's you and our history. But I am surprised, we'll go with that.

I rather like real debate rather than rah-rah foolishness because debate affords the opportunity to learn something through disagreement. An environment in which one is compelled to merely accept the incorrect is not an environment that fosters learning, unless one is intent upon learning that which is incorrect, of course. I learn through such debates and am happy to do so. What doesn't help anyone learn is if one is denigrated, derided as "attacking" merely because they disagree with someone else or even a group of someone else's.

And if I lose respect from someone because they don't like the way I present facts and ideas or conclusions I draw from them, I really don't care because that person is clearly not a person whose respect should mean a lot to me.

[forheavendial4999]

I have to respectfully disagree with you Bigpoppa, regarding his analysis. I have seen little objective analysis with any kind perspective in his posts in the Western region.

Let's talk about what objectivity is -- not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion. (source: dictionary.com). If I lack objectivity where D-III is concerned, it is almost certainly related to Marietta, its rivals, and that region in general. Beyond that, of course I have opinions but a key part of the definition is "based on facts" and I believe mine generally are. I've done a lot of objective analysis on this board since its creation, and I know you don't know all of that and neither do a lot of people and that's fine. I would guide everyone to heed Big Poppa's words.

The beauty of a national board is that you get local perspectives, like Crash in the SCIAC, one like tigerfan just posted regarding the rivalry between Hendrix and Trinity. Hendrix was 13-1 at home up until this weekend. These things play a big part of winning and losing in college baseball, and make it interesting to share.

Not many of those wins were against what I'd call real quality competition, but whatever floats your boat. Btw, this isn't a national board...though maybe I should stick to that one because people seem to get awfully territorial on the regional and conference boards. In the past there were some other posters on this board that don't seem to post much anymore...I presume fanboys with little tolerance ran them off.

[Just_Some_Guy]

While it is often harsh, his assessments are usually spot on. It just so happens that when he attacks your team/conference/region, posters tend to get a little bent out of shape about it.

Candidly, he's more objective than most in my opinion and the breadth in which he examines D3 baseball is pretty impressive.

Though I've primarily lurked this year, I've participated on this forum since early 2007 and though I don't always agree, I certainly appreciate his analysis and perspective.

In my mind, these are fair points that added value to this forum (whether I agree with his analysis or not):

Certainly true, but not really the point. The point is that Trinity with each one-run win runs a greater risk of a regression to the mean game that might come at the wrong time.

Winning 3 straight one-run games has to be considered a measure of fortune by any neutral individual. Certainly not something you can count on happening.

But it's worth mentioning that NONE of those teams in their entire season won as many 1 run games as Trinity already has. To me it's a measure of how dominant a team you are. If you're not having to win very many one-run games but you're still winning a lot, then it's because you've been notably better than most of your opponents.

I would contend that good, well-coached teams find a way to win 1-run games, but I'm not prepared to back that up with statistical analysis of 1-run playoff/championship-caliber teams in D3 baseball over the last 6-8 years.

And see this is a perfect example of the kind of horsecrap that frosts me. Austin is a patsy. Sul Ross State, Schreiner, East Texas Baptist, Ozarks, Caltech is one of the worst programs in the country. Occidental's not very good. There are several pretty sad teams in the NWC. The West has its warts like any other league.

Chapman hasn't gone deep into the Series in all those years. Chapman winning it almost every year to me shows a lack of depth in the region. Other regions have strong programs that don't make it every year. Parity in a league shouldn't be confused with parity in a region. It's clear in the West there has been very little parity over the past decade.

I believe that a large part of the reason Chapman had less success in the Series had a lot to do with the the nature of their schedule. Being from sunny California they were able to spread out their schedule in a way that never left them reliant on more than 3-4 arms (and they had some great ones). Those 3-4 could get them through a regional (especially when it was only 4 teams, but even 6 is less than many other regions); however, when they were forced to play more games in a condensed schedule they lacked the pitching depth to win it all.

I rather like real debate rather than rah-rah foolishness because debate affords the opportunity to learn something through disagreement.

The whole argument started when he said, "Doesn't seem like either team played all that well."

It was merely a matter-of-fact statement that I think most objective baseball fans would agree with based on the stat-line. That doesn't mean that:

• The players didn't play their asses off
• That there's not something to be said for finding a way to win the 'ugly' games
• That a series sweep in Arkansas isn't HUGE

I hope Heaven will stick around and I hope the TU supporters will continue to support their team; however, I don't think there's any harm in anything Heaven's said. In fact, I appreciate an opposing vantage point that pushes me outside my comfort-zone and forces me to A.) come up with more supporting evidence and/or logic B.) resign to the fact they're right or C.) agree to disagree and move on.

JSG

[historymajor]

Wow, so this is where the opinions have been hiding!  Too bad Trinity messed the bed on Good Friday, but it seems to have brought out the doubters!

[infielddad]

While it is often harsh, his assessments are usually spot on. It just so happens that when he attacks your team/conference/region, posters tend to get a little bent out of shape about it.

Candidly, he's more objective than most in my opinion and the breadth in which he examines D3 baseball is pretty impressive.

Though I've primarily lurked this year, I've participated on this forum since early 2007 and though I don't always agree, I certainly appreciate his analysis and perspective.

In my mind, these are fair points that added value to this forum (whether I agree with his analysis or not):

Certainly true, but not really the point. The point is that Trinity with each one-run win runs a greater risk of a regression to the mean game that might come at the wrong time.

Winning 3 straight one-run games has to be considered a measure of fortune by any neutral individual. Certainly not something you can count on happening.

But it's worth mentioning that NONE of those teams in their entire season won as many 1 run games as Trinity already has. To me it's a measure of how dominant a team you are. If you're not having to win very many one-run games but you're still winning a lot, then it's because you've been notably better than most of your opponents.

I would contend that good, well-coached teams find a way to win 1-run games, but I'm not prepared to back that up with statistical analysis of 1-run playoff/championship-caliber teams in D3 baseball over the last 6-8 years.

And see this is a perfect example of the kind of horsecrap that frosts me. Austin is a patsy. Sul Ross State, Schreiner, East Texas Baptist, Ozarks, Caltech is one of the worst programs in the country. Occidental's not very good. There are several pretty sad teams in the NWC. The West has its warts like any other league.

Chapman hasn't gone deep into the Series in all those years. Chapman winning it almost every year to me shows a lack of depth in the region. Other regions have strong programs that don't make it every year. Parity in a league shouldn't be confused with parity in a region. It's clear in the West there has been very little parity over the past decade.

I believe that a large part of the reason Chapman had less success in the Series had a lot to do with the the nature of their schedule. Being from sunny California they were able to spread out their schedule in a way that never left them reliant on more than 3-4 arms (and they had some great ones). Those 3-4 could get them through a regional (especially when it was only 4 teams, but even 6 is less than many other regions); however, when they were forced to play more games in a condensed schedule they lacked the pitching depth to win it all.

I rather like real debate rather than rah-rah foolishness because debate affords the opportunity to learn something through disagreement.

The whole argument started when he said, "Doesn't seem like either team played all that well."

It was merely a matter-of-fact statement that I think most objective baseball fans would agree with based on the stat-line. That doesn't mean that:

• The players didn't play their asses off
• That there's not something to be said for finding a way to win the 'ugly' games
• That a series sweep in Arkansas isn't HUGE

I hope Heaven will stick around and I hope the TU supporters will continue to support their team; however, I don't think there's any harm in anything Heaven's said. In fact, I appreciate an opposing vantage point that pushes me outside my comfort-zone and forces me to A.) come up with more supporting evidence and/or logic B.) resign to the fact they're right or C.) agree to disagree and move on.

JSG

JSG.
I believe we have been posting about the same amount of time. Not sure I ever disagreed...until now.
My reasons:
1.) What our son and his teammates did or didn't do in missing Appleton by 1 game 2 different years is pretty irrelevant to judging this TU team or the West teams this year;
2.) If someone wants to express an opinion on a players performances based on a box score, say so. Stephen Piscotty's box score on Friday night for Stanford suggested he couldn't play D3. He likely will hear his name called on day one of the MLB draft.
3.) Since I have been posting, I don't know of many on the site who post  in such an arrogant way about their objectivity, knowledge and the like.  As an example, I have no idea who you are and you would never need to post who you are or your background. Your posts prove your knowledge of baseball and players. Bragging does not work well on the D3 baseball message board for me. Most who post here on the West Region know who I am. I don't hide. I did nothing on a baseball field. I have watched a lot of college and Milb baseball since 2000 and learned a ton from a smart player.  My view is I can read a box score, see who won, see some stats and have no idea if a hitters 3-4 were terrible AB's or a kids 0-4 were great AB's.
4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

[forheavendial4999]

But it's worth mentioning that NONE of those teams in their entire season won as many 1 run games as Trinity already has. To me it's a measure of how dominant a team you are. If you're not having to win very many one-run games but you're still winning a lot, then it's because you've been notably better than most of your opponents.

I would contend that good, well-coached teams find a way to win 1-run games, but I'm not prepared to back that up with statistical analysis of 1-run playoff/championship-caliber teams in D3 baseball over the last 6-8 years.

I would have been fine with being proven wrong there. I didn't know how the numbers were going to come out, though I obviously had my hypothesis, and I'll admit there is a minor correlation. And Marietta has been very good in one-run games this year as well (as they were last year). But Kean is built for low scoring games as well and didn't have the same record in 1-run games. But they also play in a more difficult league, so maybe that matters. That's the kind of thing I like about debates and assertions is it gives me (and anyone else) a chance to learn something by looking into it more deeply, similar to the allusion you made about yourself.

Chapman hasn't gone deep into the Series in all those years. Chapman winning it almost every year to me shows a lack of depth in the region. Other regions have strong programs that don't make it every year. Parity in a league shouldn't be confused with parity in a region. It's clear in the West there has been very little parity over the past decade.

I believe that a large part of the reason Chapman had less success in the Series had a lot to do with the the nature of their schedule. Being from sunny California they were able to spread out their schedule in a way that never left them reliant on more than 3-4 arms (and they had some great ones). Those 3-4 could get them through a regional (especially when it was only 4 teams, but even 6 is less than many other regions); however, when they were forced to play more games in a condensed schedule they lacked the pitching depth to win it all.

Oh believe me I have a lot of respect for Chapman as a program. I was just saying that not every year they went to the Series did they have a great team that contended for the title, and that perhaps in other regions another team may have supplanted them in a few of those seasons. In general though, I do think the schedule = less depth argument is bogus. If you want to develop depth, you can. You don't have to throw your ace 100 innings just because you can.

One thing you're a lot better than me at is formatting posts on this board!

[forheavendial4999]

4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.

[Pat Coleman]

4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.

Perhaps it would be best not to send such emails, especially with such language in them.

[infielddad]

4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.

I might be old but I am still running marathons and have a lot of fun.
I am always willing to post my views and thoughts on this site.   In my view, resorting to scorching my email with personal attacks, without having the courage to post on the site says a lot about you.
Now, trying to suggest you know what is good or poor "form in many circles" is even more ingenious.
In my "old age" I would propose  that "in many circles" your emails would be completely unacceptable.

[forheavendial4999]

4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.

Perhaps it would be best not to send such emails, especially with such language in them.

Wouldn't matter if I had sent a brisket recipe. Still out of bounds for me, and I would never do it. Meh, whatever.

So is there a particular reason the vast majority of the posts I see from you on D-III baseball of late are in directly in response to me?

[forheavendial4999]

4.) I don't need anyone from a D3 message board flaming private emails my direction with angry allegations and concluding "I detest people like you." I'm way too old for that and D3 baseball has been way to much fun for our family to read slop like that in my personal email. 
While yours is an opinion I truly respect as much as any on D3 baseball, we come down on opposite sides of this one.

You're also apparently too old to know that it's considered poor form in many circles to bring private messages on a site into a public domain, especially completely out of context like this.

I might be old but I am still running marathons and have a lot of fun.

Terrif. I'm not the one that brought up age, for the record.

I am always willing to post my views and thoughts on this site.   In my view, resorting to scorching my email with personal attacks, without having the courage to post on the site says a lot about you.

What it most commonly means is that something was said that I didn't feel most of the board would give a crap about but wished to respond to you directly so as to avoid hijacking a thread. Like has been done to this one, for instance. I don't remember exactly when that email was, but I do know that in one case I was sent a private message by someone whose opinion counts a lot more on this site than yours thanking me for ceasing responding to people confronting me on a thread. So I'm guessing it probably was about that same time.

Now, trying to suggest you know what is good or poor "form in many circles" is even more ingenious.
In my "old age" I would propose  that "in many circles" your emails would be completely unacceptable.

And I find a lot of old aged people disingenuous in this way. It's as if no one ever said a cross word to anyone before 1968.

[Westside]

Allow me to interject for a brief spell...

What all do we know about the top teams in the West right now?
I know the top teams in the NWC rely a lot on their pitching (sans Whitworth),
but I know next to nothing about the SCIAC teams. And I don't know too much
about the ASC, other than it seems very top heavy.

Anyone care to give me a brief (or detailed) run down of the top teams
as we get closer to the playoffs?

[108 Stitches]

JSG, I will not waste too much of my time going through all of the miss-informed, illogical posts he has put up here in the Western section. Here are a few, you can make your own mind up how insightful you think they are:

- First he puts down a very fine pitcher and a great kid.
- He insults one of the better coaches in DIII baseball
- He puts down Texans and Western baseball fans.
- Puts down the Trinity program and again goes personally after a very fine pitcher.
- Puts me down as well as a very fine Centenary team.
- Continues his personal attacks on Infielddad.

I don't have more time but if I did this would continue on for some time.

So these are all of the posts of an insightful and knowledgeable baseball fan?

I think not.
------------------------------------------



They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons. 

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.

I love how the Lone Star lovers are trying to make this seem like spite or bitterness now when none of their teams have ever accomplished anything that would inspire either. It's even funnier that the one program that actually has won a regional from the state doesn't have a legion of sunshine pumpers on this board. Maybe you Tigger lovers could learn from them.


Once again the rabbit ears come out where Trinity's concerned.

3 one-run wins against a team without a prayer of a Pool C berth is surely evidence that Trinity is awesome. Get over yourselves.

The previous poster said Klimesh was his own worst enemy because of walks and HBPs. Doesn't sound like a very clean game from him. He also committed and error but Hendrix left the bases loaded in the first inning.

You made out like they had a D-I caliber lineup that was the best in D-III 1-6. Clearly you don't know jack squat about D-III or you wouldn't say that a lineup putting up those numbers against mostly mediocre competition was the best in the division.


And this is what I detest.

Tell ya what. If I want to defraud the workman comp system (pretty unlikely since I'm in the military, they don't really play that), I'll give you a call. Until then, how about you don't address me and I don't address you. You just go on helping people screw corporations out of money and I'll continue trying to use my skills to keep people from dying on battlefields. Deal?

[forheavendial4999]

JSG, I will not waste too much of my time going through all of the miss-informed, illogical posts he has put up here in the Western section. Here are a few, you can make your own mind up how insightful you think they are:

- First he puts down a very fine pitcher and a great kid.
- He insults one of the better coaches in DIII baseball
- He puts down Texans and Western baseball fans.
- Puts down the Trinity program and again goes personally after a very fine pitcher.
- Puts me down as well as a very fine Centenary team.
- Continues his personal attacks on Infielddad.

I don't have more time but if I did this would continue on for some time.

So these are all of the posts of an insightful and knowledgeable baseball fan?

I think not.
------------------------------------------

Thin skin much? Holy crap. It's like anything said that doesn't glow about Trinity baseball or Texas is an insult. I don't know if you all realize it but you are playing the Texas stereotype to a "T".

In pursing your vendetta against me, you and the other thin skins on this board have now made another poster feel as if they have to "interject" with a post that's actually about West Region baseball. Well done.

Put down this, insult that, jeez you sound like a freaking child. And that was an insult. To children.

[108 Stitches]

You are an arrogant a$$ and in all of your spite and hate you cannot see it. I really feel sorry for you.

Westside I will put some stuff together later in the week from what I know of some of the SCIAC, ASC and SCAC West teams.



Late add:

And for you to think that this long diatribe against Infielddad is acceptable then your sense of decency is beyond reproach.

Good day sir.