BB: Top Teams in West Region

[OshDude]

SOS, OWP, OOWP don't work in the west!

What will traspire the next two weeks will be a qualitative and quantitative discussion about Pool C; primarily based upon SOS, OWP, OOWP. In that it is truely flawed for about half the nation, it gives you results which be by definition biased.

My hope would be that people would understand the inherent bias that exsits as the "who is better than who" discussion of Pool C unfolds over the next 2-weeks.

As Crash so wisely said "I am for winning it on the field. Pool A does that. I am not sure Pool B/C do that." That being said, I really want a national championship that eliminates the inherent bias that is created by geography and limited budgets.

I think that the people who sit around the table know that SOS/OWP/OOWP varies with the regions in D-III.

Confirmed in my talk with Anthony Holman.

[El Hombre]

SOS, OWP, OOWP don't work in the west!

What will traspire the next two weeks will be a qualitative and quantitative discussion about Pool C; primarily based upon SOS, OWP, OOWP. In that it is truely flawed for about half the nation, it gives you results which be by definition biased.

My hope would be that people would understand the inherent bias that exsits as the "who is better than who" discussion of Pool C unfolds over the next 2-weeks.

As Crash so wisely said "I am for winning it on the field. Pool A does that. I am not sure Pool B/C do that." That being said, I really want a national championship that eliminates the inherent bias that is created by geography and limited budgets.

I think that the people who sit around the table know that SOS/OWP/OOWP varies with the regions in D-III.

Confirmed in my talk with Anthony Holman.

Ricky -
I recall your article / interview with Anthony Holman (and it was excellent by the way!).  However, can you clarify what was "confirmed in my talk with Anthony Holman"?  Are you suggesting that the committee considers other factors in their selection (other than the criteria? 

Thank you for your feedback and analysis!

[OshDude]

No, the committee doesn't consider other factors not stated in the selection criteria because, by rule, it cannot. Here is what I meant. Nothing more and nothing less than what he said.

Are lower West Region strength of schedule numbers taken into consideration on selection day?

AH: They are. Everything is taken into consideration. We have a lot of discussion about the West Region and their sometimes lower strength of schedule because of the number of teams that they have to play in conference. They have to play each of their conference opponents three or four times, and you've got a couple of teams that aren't very good that you certainly have to schedule. The travel limitations limit them from getting to as many other Division III institutions as they can, so certainly that may help or hurt their strength of schedule as well. So, the committee does take that into consideration along with everything. Not one criterion is weighed heavier or more than the other, so yes, that's being considered.

[El Hombre]

Ricky -
Can you please clarify one other item from your interview with Anthony Holman . . .

In the interview excerpt below, Anthony discusses the "regionally rankings" as if they are out early in the season.  More specifically, he states that ". . . the first week that we do rankings, some teams may not even have played a game or been outside or maybe they played a couple of games down in Florida or in Arizona, but the Wisconsin schools haven't hit a ball outside yet.". 

What are the regional rankings he is referring to that come out before some teams have even played a game?  Does that mean the regional rankings include the D3Baseball/NCBWA National Poll? 

INTERVIEW:
D3: Backtracking a little bit, why "once ranked, always ranked" as we call it? [Teams are considered ranked, for the purpose of record vs. ranked opponents, if they appear at least once in the regional rankings]

AH: Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's been more of a divisional thing. It was one that came from the championships committee. And I think the baseball committee initially thought that, along with several other sport committees – I think it's fair to say that the baseball committee is reviewing that and is considering that because they recognize that the first week that we do rankings, some teams may not even have played a game or been outside or maybe they played a couple of games down in Florida or in Arizona, but the Wisconsin schools haven't hit a ball outside yet. So, how fair is that? So, I think there's some discussion about that and whether or not we will continue it. It's still part of our criteria for the 2012 season, but it's fair to say that it's under review.

[OshDude]

I don't have an answer for that. However, it would be nice if the governance structure had a dialog about the merits of "once ranked, always ranked."

[Ralph Turner]

I think he misspoke.

The first rankings now come out about the 13th week of the season. Every team now has played about 25-28 games when the first regional rankings occur.

I like once ranked, always ranked with the initial rankings occurring so late. You still have a chance to recognize those teams who were strong until the last weeks of the srason. This considers injuries like Trinity TX's #2 pitcher Nick Lucero.

[108 Stitches]

I think he misspoke.

The first rankings now come out about the 13th week of the season. Every team now has played about 25-28 games when the first regional rankings occur.

I like once ranked, always ranked with the initial rankings occurring so late. You still have a chance to recognize those teams who were strong until the last weeks of the srason. This considers injuries like Trinity TX's #2 pitcher Nick Ryan Lucero.

BTW congrats to McM, should be fun game tomorrow vs CTX.

[Ralph Turner]

Thx. My bad. Ryan not Nick altho' Ryan doesn't sound "Lucero enough".  LOL

[Ralph Turner]

I think he misspoke.

The first rankings now come out about the 13th week of the season. Every team now has played about 25-28 games when the first regional rankings occur.

I like once ranked, always ranked with the initial rankings occurring so late. You still have a chance to recognize those teams who were strong until the last weeks of the srason. This considers injuries like Trinity TX's #2 pitcher Nick Ryan Lucero.

BTW congrats to McM, should be fun game tomorrow vs CTX.

I don't know who will pitch for us.
We have used the best 3 starters, the closer in game2, the early season closer for 4(maybe best 4 innings of the season) in game 3.
Coach Byington has gotten a lot out of his team these last 6 games.
Eliminate UTD, UTT and MissColl!!!
Wow.

[Ralph Turner]

We even used a set-up man in Game 2.
WE ARE DEEP into the bullpen now!

[JohnnyU]

I think there are ways to "beat the system" that seem unfair to me.

Coaches can load up their non-conference schedules with the best teams in bad conferences, like Keystone or  St. Scholastica or Castleton State or Webster or Alvernia. (The West doesn't have a conference like this. Another reason their SOS numbers are skewed.) These teams are probably good, but not as good as their record says they are. Even if you lose the game, everyone knows those teams are going to have a huge win% to boost your SOS. It's worth it to take the loss.

You could also just play more non-region games instead of playing bad teams in-region. With a high enough SOS you only need to have a "good" season to make the playoffs. Not a great one. Look at the Central Regional rankings. IMO the only difference between North Park and Wheaton is that North Park played more in region early season games. Take away the first 10 in-region games from North Park and they're 19-10, likely with a SOS very similar to Wheaton. Does it really make sense to reward the 14-12 team for traveling further to play teams instead of the 28-11 team?

I corrected an error in my post above (the Central got two bids in 2011). To break my promise on that post being my last on the subject this season and to put a finer point on it, here are the bid breakdowns from last season. Some conferences besides the SCAC and NEAC overlap regions slightly.

Central has 4 Pool A leagues, 37 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
Mid-Atlantic has 7.66 Pool A leagues, 60 teams: 3 at-large bids in 2011.
Mideast has 5 Pool A leagues, 48 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
Midwest has 4 Pool A leagues, 39 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
New England has 7.66 Pool A leagues, 67 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.
New York has 4.66 Pool A leagues, 37 teams: 1 at-large bid in 2011.
South has 3.5 Pool A leagues, 37 teams: 3 at-large bids in 2011.
West has 3.5 Pool A leagues, 38 teams: 2 at-large bids in 2011.

[Ralph Turner]

We even used a set-up man in Game 2.
WE ARE DEEP into the bullpen now!

Our #4 starter only allowed 2 runs thru the first 6 innings, to hold a 2-2 tie.  He had a great outing!

He got hit in the 7th and the closer should not shut CTX down which put up a 4-spot in the 7th.

Final was 7-2. CTX

[BamColt]

Concordia is every bit as advertised at 33-9 and disagree with the West being somewhat weak. Depth on the mound is why they have successfully captured back to back conference titles. They now need to take care of business in Oregon and make a run in this regional. I though McMurry did a hell of a job coming in having a sub 500 record and knocking off two quality teams in UT Tyler and Miss College.

[Ralph Turner]

Bamcolt.

Congratulations.

Now win the West.

Considering we started the season 2-13 ( the month of February) ...

We go 21-11 in March, April and May.
We knocked out three.  We eliminated UTD, UTT and MissColl from the tournament.   

I hope that CTX puts in a bid to host the West in 2013 and 2014.

[TexasBB]

Congratulations to McMurry the played tough and won some real tight games.

Congratulations also to CTX showing they are the class of the ASC.

Good luck in the Regionals. I think they have a real good chance to to win it!!

Texas BB