BB: Top Teams in West Region

[CrashDavisD3]

What do you mean by academic reasons?

In a D1 school it is impossible to be a pre-med, pre-law student with the demands of games, practices etc..in these programs.

In the West without compressed schedules for D3 teams, several players I have seen go into law school, medical school and other graduate programs after 4 years of playing baseball.

I have personally seen in the same program players going into medical school, law school, DPT school, get their CPA and an MBA.

This is from a program that has played in Appleton in most years over the past decade with players taking finals almost every year in their dugouts or from hotels during the regionals.

[forheavendial4999]

Thanks for the clarification everyone. I agree that's a very good reason to go D-III. I thought you were saying because of inability to play in D-I academically, and I was thinking 'well don't most of those people go D-II?'. And I know a lot of those SCIAC schools are pretty good so I was thinking I had the wrong take. So I wanted to get the right one.

[BigPoppa]

Ralph knows D3 and baseball in the South and West, for sure.
In Northern CA., we have no D3 programs.
JC's end up with upwards of 100 players who tryout.
DII is huge and with programs like CSU Chico and CSU Sonoma State, one or the other is playing for the D2 National Championship nearly every year.
So many players think they are DI.  In many areas of the Country they are.
In Northern CA., many get cut from a JC or DII due to the level of competition.
D3 is not in the equation.
In New England, D3 proliferates and the academics can be a huge attraction.
To support Ralph, many of those cuts at a California JC or DII would be wonderful D3 players.
However, once they are cut, they stop.
Often times the same issue exists  in Texas where JC and DII are huge.
While Texas has wonderful D3 schools and baseball, the JC  and DII players who get cut don't end up transferring for many reasons, some of which involve the academics.
As Ralph said, geographics plays a major role in this discussion.
Honestly, in California, many players would be wonderful D3 players.
For many reasons they don't find D3 an attractive option.
When there are schools like all those in New England, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Minnesota which attract so well locally, "attraction" is just different.

While a coach at an NAIA program in SoCal, I routinely raided the NorCal Junior Colleges for talent(Feather River, Sac City, Cerro Coso, etc...) . Most of the JC starters at the top programs were either drafted or signed with a D1 (Oklahoma and Oral Roberts loaded up every year). I would chase the second level player that was not getting D1 looks or was a D1 guy that did not want to leave California. If D3s wanted to make a run with top notch JC kids, all they need to do is look to NorCal... many, many great players simply find nowhere to play after JC ball and hang it up.

[Gray Fox]

The boards for other sports have covered the topic for SCIAC schools.  People in the LA area just don't know about their local D3 schools like people in the east and mid west do.  And the coaches aren't much help.  There are exceptions for specific schools like Chapman that used to be successful at a higher level before they decided to become D3.

[108 Stitches]

I assume BigPoppa that you were dealing with one of my all time favorite guys Jerry Weinstein then.

[BigPoppa]

I assume BigPoppa that you were dealing with one of my all time favorite guys Jerry Weinstein then.

Indeed... some of the JC coaches were very good at moving their players to the next level after JC ball. They were open and honest with coaches and players and always put kids in a spot where they could succeed. Cerro Coso's Dick Adams, Santa Ana's Don Sneddon and Yavapai's (AZ) Sky Smelzer were the best to work with.

[ILVBB]

The impact of geography and tradition are huge. 90% of D3 ball happens within 750 miles +/-. This creates tradition and awareness that helps teams thrive.

My son came from NorCal, where it has been pointed out there are no D3's. As a family, we valued education and put it above baseball. Coming out of HS he was approached by a MLB club during the draft and follow era. They wanted him to go to the local JC along with a handful of other players from our area that had either been drafted or were potential  "draft and follow."

Because of the absolute number of players in California versus the number of roster spots, his only baseball options were at several state schools (all D2) with less than a stellar academic profile. He choose a good D3 program in Texas because he knew he would play while getting a first class education. He graduated in 4-years, had a stellar career and now is in grad school getting his MBA.

Of the kids that we knew that were either drafted or approached as "draft and follow"; only one went on to play at a D1 program (he never graduated) and several went on to NAIA programs where academics were less stingent. Most played a couple of years of JC ball and are now struggling to earn a living.

I have spoken with countless parents here in CA. There is a very limited (almost nonexsistent) perspective as to what D3 baseball is all about. Most kids would rather ride the bench at a state D1/D2 then think about traveling half way across the country to a D3 program that they have never heard of.

It is reality; geography and tradition shape D3 programs.

[108 Stitches]

That is a great story ILVBB. I think it is a very common one for players in Calif. There are so many fine small schools in the eastern half of the country (mid west is east for us Cal guys... ) but relatively few in the West. (other than the SCIAC conf) Chapman does a great job of recruiting, but like Cal State Fullerton and UCI they sit right in the middle of one of the top hot beds of baseball in the country so they don't have to go far for talent. Because of the academics at Trinity, and the fact that the coaching staff puts in the effort, they are able recruit players from all over the country. I know some of the other programs in Tx and the South West are seeking to mirror this type recruiting to compete with them. I have glanced at some of the rosters of some of the other top South and East programs and for the most part they seem to get their talent locally.

[infielddad]

Ralph knows D3 and baseball in the South and West, for sure.
In Northern CA., we have no D3 programs.
JC's end up with upwards of 100 players who tryout.
DII is huge and with programs like CSU Chico and CSU Sonoma State, one or the other is playing for the D2 National Championship nearly every year.
So many players think they are DI.  In many areas of the Country they are.
In Northern CA., many get cut from a JC or DII due to the level of competition.
D3 is not in the equation.
In New England, D3 proliferates and the academics can be a huge attraction.
To support Ralph, many of those cuts at a California JC or DII would be wonderful D3 players.
However, once they are cut, they stop.
Often times the same issue exists  in Texas where JC and DII are huge.
While Texas has wonderful D3 schools and baseball, the JC  and DII players who get cut don't end up transferring for many reasons, some of which involve the academics.
As Ralph said, geographics plays a major role in this discussion.
Honestly, in California, many players would be wonderful D3 players.
For many reasons they don't find D3 an attractive option.
When there are schools like all those in New England, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Minnesota which attract so well locally, "attraction" is just different.

While a coach at an NAIA program in SoCal, I routinely raided the NorCal Junior Colleges for talent(Feather River, Sac City, Cerro Coso, etc...) . Most of the JC starters at the top programs were either drafted or signed with a D1 (Oklahoma and Oral Roberts loaded up every year). I would chase the second level player that was not getting D1 looks or was a D1 guy that did not want to leave California. If D3s wanted to make a run with top notch JC kids, all they need to do is look to NorCal... many, many great players simply find nowhere to play after JC ball and hang it up.

BigPoppa,
Being at an NAIA in SoCal, I am surprised you would need to even look to Northern CA to fill a roster with highly talented players. 
On the other hand, I can see why good coaches would do that!
On the D3 side, it can be tougher for JC players to transfer to more selective academic schools, even if they had the interest.  Too many lost units is a major stumbling block.
What has been a major plus for D3's to find talent in California is the Stanford Camp.
Coach Scannell at Trinity was probably the first to attend that Camp and find and recruit quality players with the academics to be admitted to TU  to build his program.
He is a mainstay at that Camp every Summer and routinely finds players with DI skills, the academics, and who are subject to the numbers game for DI in California. Just my opinion but I believe that Stanford Camp, coupled with the retirement of Coach Mallon and there being nothing similar to the Stanford Camp in Texas is part of an explanation for the rise of Trinity baseball and the struggles at Southwestern, which used to be the D3 program in Texas.
I know that Coach McCain of Millsaps, Coach Groat at Hendrix also now attend as do coaches from the NWC and SCIAC.
The Stanford Camp is now so popular for visibility and recruiting for top academic opportunities that they have just added a 3rd All Star Camp this Summer.
If a coach were to attend all three camps, he can now see upwards of 750 to 800 players, most all with very good academic qualifications and an awful lot of them with some DI ability, and no DI's to recruit them.

[BigPoppa]

If you ever want to see an incrfedible mass of talent, attend the (open to the public) Junior College Showcase at Loyala Marymount every fall. Each SoCal JC program can send up to 3-4 unsigned sophomores. It is an incredible scene filled with MLB scouts, at least 30-40 D1 coaching staffs (I sat between guys from Notre Dame and North Carolina).

Plus, top-notch players for small college to scoop up. Easier than driving all over to find them as they come right to you in one place.

[ILVBB]

BigPoppa - They have the "same" showcase in NorCal at DVC. Every year 200+/- quality JC players. What you don't see is too many kids either wanting to or willing to move on to D3 programs; it is not part of the California "tradition." That is why this discussion is important to posters from the regions where D3 ball has stong backing from both a baseball prospective as well as academic.

[(509)Rat]

LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

[BamColt]

JUCO ball in Texas is very competitive as well. San Jac , Navarro, Grayson, Mcclennan etc have had some teams that could go out and compete with Texas , Texas A&M and Baylor on a consistent basis. San Jac is a goldmine for MLB draft products, especially on the mound.

[forheavendial4999]

LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.

[Ralph Turner]

I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?

I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.

LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.

I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.