BB: Top Teams in West Region

[infielddad]

Jack,
When Rose-Hulman and DePauw departed the SCAC and the conference added BSC and U of Dallas, the divisions were realigned.  Millsaps was moved out of the West.

[108 Stitches]

The beauty of baseball is that we all get to second guess the coach and his decisions,- usually when something does not go his way. I don't really know, but I do know that there is a difference in pitching when on the road, in conference, and maybe these things played a part of his decision wanting to get some away exp for his pitchers. They also have a very structured throwing program there and they try to keep guys on a routine, so maybe he wanted to keep his younger guys on their routine, Klimesh and Lucero are more experienced and are more flexible. Maybe he just overlooked Southwestern. Certainly makes things more interesting, frankly I think it is good for them to be playing games that mean more, they were getting too lackadaisical and not playing with the fire they were earlier in the season. Give us something to chat about.

[Ralph Turner]

Here is the Trinity schedule. 

3/24    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 9-1    BX  (Klimesh)
3/24    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 9-8    BX   (Speer)
3/25    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 7-5    BX  (Lucero)
3/27    vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor •    W, 9-3    BX  (Barron, Bay winner, Klimesh 2 innings, Bogese)
4/3    at Hardin-Simmons •    L, 3-2    BX          (Kilmesh loser)
4/3    at Hardin-Simmons •    W, 5-1    BX RC     (Lucero winner)
4/6    at Southwestern * •    L, 6-2    BX          (Bentz loser; 1 earned run)
4/6    at Southwestern * •    L, 9-7    BX RC     (Speer loser)
4/7    at Southwestern * •    2:00 PM    V

That is a prudent use of the pitching staff.

[CrashDavisD3]

All top teams go thru a period of play bad against average or poor teams. I saw it many times over the past few years for a team the made regular trips to Appleton.

[Pat Coleman]

Millsaps is in the South Region, Jack.

I realize they are in the south but I am also an idiot and didn't see them as an SCAC East team.  The D3 page has them in the SCAC West but I was looking at the SCAC home page, which has them correctly listed in the SCAC East.  I am a little slow this morning.

Sorry -- when Presto sets up our standings we tend to assume they know how the Presto conferences are set up. I'll get that changed.

[dp643]

You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

How in the world can you say that Trinity has the #1 seed wrapped up? They have a 3 game series with a team that is 1.5 games behind them now left.

I still throw my studs in conference, period. Throwing your studs for 2 innings to get some bullpen work in on Tuesday is completely different than setting yourself up to not be able to throw them in the first two games of a conference series.

[Ralph Turner]

You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

How in the world can you say that Trinity has the #1 seed wrapped up? They have a 3 game series with a team that is 1.5 games behind them now left.

I still throw my studs in conference, period. Throwing your studs for 2 innings to get some bullpen work in on Tuesday is completely different than setting yourself up to not be able to throw them in the first two games of a conference series.

Thanks for the comment.

Klimesh starts on 3/24.  The next conference start for him will be 13 days later. How much work do you want him to get?

Here is the Trinity schedule. 

3/24    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 9-1    BX  (Klimesh)
3/24    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 9-8    BX   (Speer)
3/25    vs. University of Dallas * •    W, 7-5    BX  (Lucero)
3/27    vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor •    W, 9-3    BX  (Barron, Bay winner, Klimesh 2 innings, Bogese)
4/3    at Hardin-Simmons •    L, 3-2    BX          (Kilmesh loser 7 innings)
4/3    at Hardin-Simmons •    W, 5-1    BX RC     (Lucero winner)
4/6    at Southwestern * •    L, 6-2    BX          (Bentz loser; 1 earned run)
4/6    at Southwestern * •    L, 9-7    BX RC     (Speer loser)
4/7    at Southwestern * •    W 10-0 (8)              (Klimesh 7 innings)

That is a prudent use of the pitching staff.  (Starters are in bold.)

I am perfectly happy with that rotation.  For the sake of old time baseball discussion and second guessing, what rotation would you have used?  Please go to the Trinity stats to find a 6th starter is you need to.  Thanks for the response.   


Does he bring back Klimesh on 3 days rest and on a tight pitch count and then use him in the Saturday game next week?

I added this after your next comment had posted.

[dp643]

Why do you need 6 starters with 5 games? If Lucero and Klimesh throw on Tuesday, its for 2 innings. I start my number 4 and number 5 versus Hardin Simmons.

Would you defend McMurry Ralph for throwing their top two pitchers in a midweek game before playing Schreiner or Sul Ross?

[Ralph Turner]

Why do you need 6 starters with 5 games? If Lucero and Klimesh throw on Tuesday, its for 2 innings. I start my number 4 and number 5 versus Hardin Simmons.

Would you defend McMurry Ralph for throwing their top two pitchers in a midweek game before playing Schreiner or Sul Ross?

I actually like the timing of the rotation.  I think that the better question is whether he thinks that he can maximize the wins with the rotation that he used.  I think that HSU is much tougher than Southwestern.  Southwestern is only 3-11 versus ASC schools this season.  My best anticipation for a Top 10 TU (and best team in the West) this week was a split at HSU and a 3-game sweep of Southwestern. I was surprised that TU could not beat HSU with Klimesh only giving up 1 earned run.

Does he bring back Klimesh on 3 days rest and on a tight pitch count and then use him in the Saturday game next week?

[dp643]

You didnt answer my question about McMurry....

[Ralph Turner]

I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?

I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.

LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.

I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.

Ralph, I know of no one here in Ohio turning down a partial scholarship down south to stay here and play at a D-3. My son was All Ohio and in the top 100 of the Buckeye Scout list for Ohio and never even got a phone call from a D-1 program. After he had committed to play for Matt Palm at Heidelberg, 2 MAC schools, Toledo and Akron wanted him to walk on, but he declined since he had given his word. He ended up getting hurt in Dec his freshman year and would have been written off by any D-1 but is now in the starting rotation at the Berg as a sophomore. I am especially glad he didn't go to Akron since the head coach resigned after what would have been my son's freshman year, no incoming coach is going to put any credence in his departed predecessor's walk ons.

Thanks motorman.

I think that the reason that we don't have the depth at pitching in this part of the country is all of the pitching talent that goes to the 38 JUCO's that play baseball in Texas.

Those guys are trying to make it in the bigs, and they have not gotten the invitation to go to D-1.

At age 18 education can happen after your dream has been snuffed out.  You can get your associates while you are still on the radar of the scouts, probably play more games in the JUCO's than in the same time period at D-III, and not lose that window at age 18-19.

[forheavendial4999]

You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons.

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.

[dp643]

You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons.

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.

This is pretty much as I see it. I posted this up on Wednesday that I cant believe they would do this with a double header conference series on Friday. Im starting to question their pitching depth as Klimesh and Lucero have logged a ton of innings. I dont think they have the depth to come out of the loser's bracket in the West Region should they drop one early.

[Ron Boerger]

Trinity started Klimesh today, who went seven innings leading the Tigers to a 10-0 run-rule victory thanks to a five-run outburst in the top of the eighth.

This makes you think that they'll start Lucero against TLU on Tuesday, start Ben for the first Saturday game at Hendrix, and Lucero would be able to pitch again for the closer on Sunday.     As dp says, that's getting to be a lot of work for those two guys. 

[Ralph Turner]

You can argue till you are blue in the face about when and where to pitch whom, but you can't argue with the fact that Trinity's pitching is not deep. This is a perfect example. They can beat anyone with Lucero and Klimesh on the bump, but are very suspect after that.

They couldn't beat Hardin-Simmons.

The most telling thing to me is that this supposed top 5 round draft pick got beat by Hardin-Simmons's like 6th best.

As for throwing your aces in a mid-week game where you know the other team doesn't have its best, it shows a lack of confidence that your down the line guys can get it done, and it seems that lack of confidence was shown to be well-placed by how they did against Southwestern.

But it's a complete insult to your conference opponent. And completely foolish to open yourself up to a greater chance of not winning your division.

Hopefully the selection committee remembers why this happened...because Trinity's coach doesn't think they're good enough to beat a mid-table ASC West team without trying to stack the deck.

This is pretty much as I see it. I posted this up on Wednesday that I cant believe they would do this with a double header conference series on Friday. Im starting to question their pitching depth as Klimesh and Lucero have logged a ton of innings. I dont think they have the depth to come out of the loser's bracket in the West Region should they drop one early.

I agree with you about Trinity's pitching depth.

And that being said, I believe my best chance for Trinty to go 5-0 last week is for Klimesh and Lucero to face the tougher HSU and let my #3, #4 and #5 go against the #1, #2, #3 of a much weaker opponent.

My number 3 has to shut down their #1, and my offense and defense need to back him up.

I have a 2 game lead over Hendrix with the final 3-game series against Hendrix. I lead the Hendrix series 2 games to none. I have a 3-game series against 2-13 Austin College in the last weekend.