BB: Top Teams in West Region

[Bishopleftiesdad]

I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?

I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.

LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.

I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.

Ralph Most of those players that would get a partial scholarship down south could easily get a walk on spot to any state school in Ohio, or maybe an equal scholarship. Most of the Top schools in Ohio are all looking for those kids that slipped through the cracks or didn't project into a D1 program but may have borderline D1 talent. Same as the California schools. Some kids go to D3 because it is the best fit size wise and academically. At our High School we have seen quite a few kids walk on to D1's up here and even down south but after a year they are done. I don't know if they chose to end their career or if the program decided that they were no longer needed, but the kids that go D3 usually play for 4 years.

[ILVBB]

108-

Fink had TJ surgery his freshman year (I believe he was originally slotted for San Diego State). Bogese had TJ last year.

Fink throws so hard he has allways had a tendancy to get a "hot elbow" which I believe is the case this year.

[108 Stitches]

San Diego State.... well that was quite an upgrade....academically. (and probably baseball, but that could start a whole nother' argument at least on Rivals....)

I heard he was sidelined and is cleared to throw now.

[CrashDavisD3]

I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?

I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.

LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.

I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.

Ralph Most of those players that would get a partial scholarship down south could easily get a walk on spot to any state school in Ohio, or maybe an equal scholarship. Most of the Top schools in Ohio are all looking for those kids that slipped through the cracks or didn't project into a D1 program but may have borderline D1 talent. Same as the California schools. Some kids go to D3 because it is the best fit size wise and academically. At our High School we have seen quite a few kids walk on to D1's up here and even down south but after a year they are done. I don't know if they chose to end their career or if the program decided that they were no longer needed, but the kids that go D3 usually play for 4 years.

I disagree. One example is 14 incoming Freshman only 4 made it to their senior year in a well known program in SoCal. 3 were starters/1 backup. This is about the same year in and year out for this program.

[Ralph Turner]

Its a wonderful game isnt it? So many different ways and approaches to do things.

108 - What is the deal with Fink? Is he injured? He hasnt thrown in a while.

Yes!

[Whatagame]

San Diego State.... well that was quite an upgrade....academically. (and probably baseball, but that could start a whole nother' argument at least on Rivals....)

Why the smack on SDSU, the student athletes who play there and Coach Tony Gwynn?  My son plays at a school where the middle 50% of  the SAT is 2200, but compared to Harvard and Stanford that sucks, so everything is relative.

[108 Stitches]

Not a big deal just surprised me that he went from SDSU to TU. Quite a jump that's all. My son has two good friends playing on SDSU.

[108 Stitches]

The other funny thing Whatagame was that I was watching the video feed from SDSU and USD last night. There were three freshmen in that game that my son played with and knows pretty well. For those who have not seen the SDSU internet video feed it is amazing, as good as many live TV events.

[Whatagame]

It is exciting isn't it Stitches to follow your kid's buddies going way back to Little League, who are now playing the college game.

[tigerfan_2001]

Trinity goes 2-3 and falls to #4 in the country. 

Concordia Austin 11
Linfield 19
UT Tyler 22

Receiving Votes
Pacific
La Verne
UT Dallas

[forheavendial4999]

Trinity goes 2-3 and falls to #4 in the country. 

Concordia Austin 11
Linfield 19
UT Tyler 22

Receiving Votes
Pacific
La Verne
UT Dallas

Would put a lot of money on the regional rankings not being in that order.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

I guess I argue the compressed schedule, or lack there of, is somewhat irrelevant concerning the recruitment and development of players on a roster that can come into games and throw 5 to 6 quality innings, and a bullpen that can support the starter.

I pose a larger question.  I believe that D3 Baseball possibly lacks the "brand" that it might have in the East, Northeast and Mid West, which leads to fewer skilled players from the area playing D3.  Thoughts?

I think that the East, Northeast and Midwest teams have less competition at the D-2 and NJCAA levels for talent than we have in the South and West, especially.  I believe that "D-2 and quality "NJCAA/D-1or D2" talent "falls" to D-3 up north.

Three high quality baseball conferences are the NJAC, the Little East and the WIAC. Those state schools have quality programs. It is probably harder for a northern D-2 school to have a quality baseball program than any other sport.  So talent that doesn't get a (partial baseball) scholarship down south, paying partial out-of-state tuition, can stay in Wisconsin, New Jersey or Connecticut and play great ball.   The season warms up in March thru May with collegiate ball, and they just play thru the summer in the wooden bat leagues.

Baseball is "king" in the south and southwest and west.

LC State does the same thing up in Idaho. Their roster has about 5 kids who came straight from high school. The rest are Cali JC kids and DI defectors. Playing in the NWC in other sports I would agree with the sentiment that D3 just isn't something a lot of kids consider when those DI and DII scholarships don't come. It's as much an issue of "culture" as anything else (like a few have already mentioned).

I don't know about this though. It's not like kids back east are turning down D-I programs to play D-III with any regularity. At least they aren't in Ohio. In Wisconsin the best players often play D-III because there's only one D-I program in the state. But I'm sure it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the talent pool for baseball there is much different. Minnesota has a couple of scholarship programs but not many. And really good players from the northern states go to southern schools all the time.

Every area has its disadvantages. You either overcome them or you don't.

I am not so sure about that.  If you asked around the D-III clubhouses on Ohio, you could probably find 2-3 players on each of the 21 D-III schools in the state who turned down a partial scholarship down south to play ball closer to home.  it doesn't take many players to make the difference in a team. 

Really good players do go down south.  At the D-III level, we are looking at a D-1 bench rider who will get 10-15% partial scholarship for minimal playing time, versus being an everyday player star in DIII.

Ralph Most of those players that would get a partial scholarship down south could easily get a walk on spot to any state school in Ohio, or maybe an equal scholarship. Most of the Top schools in Ohio are all looking for those kids that slipped through the cracks or didn't project into a D1 program but may have borderline D1 talent. Same as the California schools. Some kids go to D3 because it is the best fit size wise and academically. At our High School we have seen quite a few kids walk on to D1's up here and even down south but after a year they are done. I don't know if they chose to end their career or if the program decided that they were no longer needed, but the kids that go D3 usually play for 4 years.

I disagree. One example is 14 incoming Freshman only 4 made it to their senior year in a well known program in SoCal. 3 were starters/1 backup. This is about the same year in and year out for this program.

Sorry I was not clearer, I was only talking about the population I know about. I was talking about those kids who graduated from our High school, and went on to play baseball.

[Ralph Turner]

The other side of a successful program is how well the coach helps the student-athlete navigate the waters in which the kid finally sees just how good/marginal a collegiate athlete that his/her skills allow him/her to be.  If the coach validates that person for the effort and the talents that are required for someone who will "turn pro in life", well then the absence of that person's name on the roster 4-years later is mitigated by the contribution that that experience had on the student-athlete.

Plenty of parents ask the student-athlete to reassess the money being spent at that time.  If transferring to a non-D3baseball school permits the student-athlete to graduate in a timely fashion, then that student-athlete has had a winning experience.

[infielddad]

The other side of a successful program is how well the coach helps the student-athlete navigate the waters in which the kid finally sees just how good/marginal a collegiate athlete that his/her skills allow him/her to be.  If the coach validates that person for the effort and the talents that are required for someone who will "turn pro in life", well then the absence of that person's name on the roster 4-years later is mitigated by the contribution that that experience had on the student-athlete.

Plenty of parents ask the student-athlete to reassess the money being spent at that time.  If transferring to a non-D3baseball school permits the student-athlete to graduate in a timely fashion, then that student-athlete has had a winning experience.

Ralph,
What a wonderful summary and assessment of college and baseball and college baseball!
Could be just me but it seems so many parents of HS players have invested so many $$$$ in showcases, travel baseball, lessons and the like, that the expectations for college and baseball are not realistic.  When the talent on the field at the best levels of competition is not what it was before college, everyone is blamed and responsible, when it really is pretty simple: the level of talent, performance and production isn't enough to get on the field.
While we don't have exposure to a vast array of programs, the ones we saw over a 4-5 year period had some truly wonderful coaches who achieved very well on helping the student-athlete navigate the waters of transition to college/adulthood, freedom combined with the demands of college athletics and baseball.
There are a small number of coaches at the D3 level who not only do that, they also take the good player and make him an excellent collegiate athlete/get drafted and "turn pro in baseball."
In the end, though, baseball ends for them too.
As you say, the best are the student/athlete-coaching relationships that support, demand, guide, demand, nurture, demand, and eventually have players graduate and "turn pro in life."
What a wonderful contribution you bring to this site!

+1.

[El Hombre]

Based on the RPI calculations completed by JohnnyU (nice work JohnnyU!), the West Region rankings would be as follows:

Win%   OWP    OOWP   SOS     RPI   Rank   School       In-Region   W - L
0.846   0.476   0.518   0.490   0.579   1     Trinity (Texas)     22 - 4
0.724   0.527   0.506   0.520   0.571   2     La Verne       21 - 8
0.739   0.490   0.543   0.508   0.566   3     Whitworth      17 - 6
0.818   0.456   0.516   0.476   0.562   4     Concordia (Texas)      27 - 6
0.875   0.425   0.520   0.457   0.561   5     Pacific      14 - 2
0.696   0.495   0.546   0.512   0.558   6     Pacific Lutheran       16 - 7
0.455   0.642   0.491   0.592   0.558   7     Chapman      10 - 12
0.720   0.485   0.516   0.495   0.552   8     Linfield       18 - 7
0.688   0.490   0.513   0.497   0.545   9     Texas-Dallas      22 - 10
0.654   0.482   0.505   0.489   0.530   10   Cal Lutheran       17 - 9
0.696   0.470   0.479   0.473   0.528   11   Texas-Tyler       16  - 7

By factoring in SOS, OWP, etc. the RPI tells a much different story: 
(1) The overall RPI race is actually very tight.
(2) La Verne, Whitworth, and Pacific get some recognition.
(2) Chapman has the toughest SOS (as expected).
(4) Plus, only La Verne and Chapman have played a schedule of teams with winning records!