BB: Top Teams in West Region

[Richard Hamstocks]

Ken Massey's rating system puts P-P at 7th in the nation. Linfield at 39.
http://masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cbase&yr=2012&sub=11620

[Richard Hamstocks]

I'll also add that if you put Lewis & Clark (4-20 in NWC) in the SCIAC instead of Cal Tech (0-28 in SCIAC) we have the following OWPs.
Linfield: .500 as stated on NCAA.com as I haven't altered their schedule.
Pomona-Pitzer: .511
So now Pomona-Pitzer's OWP is as much higher over Linfield's than Linfield's was over P-P in the original data.
Is it a stretch to think that Pomona-Pitzer would have taken 4 games from L&C as they did over Cal Tech?
If not, that's what .010 means in strength of schedule. 
Despite Linfield having worse numbers in all other categories, they rank Linfield higher in the regional rankings because they beat Lewis & Clark instead of Cal Tech.  Bad form.
The NCAA should require someone with at least mild quantitative training to be on these regional ranking committees. 

[JohnnyU]

I'll also add that if you put Lewis & Clark (4-20 in NWC) in the SCIAC instead of Cal Tech (0-28 in SCIAC) we have the following OWPs.
Linfield: .500 as stated on NCAA.com as I haven't altered their schedule.
Pomona-Pitzer: .511
So now Pomona-Pitzer's OWP is as much higher over Linfield's than Linfield's was over P-P in the original data.
Is it a stretch to think that Pomona-Pitzer would have taken 4 games from L&C as they did over Cal Tech?
If not, that's what .010 means in strength of schedule. 
Despite Linfield having worse numbers in all other categories, they rank Linfield higher in the regional rankings because they beat Lewis & Clark instead of Cal Tech.  Bad form.
The NCAA should require someone with at least mild quantitative training to be on these regional ranking committees.

Agreed 100%. This is the biggest problem with the NCAA's current process nationally, and it affects the West the most because of the "Cal tech" problem you describe.

[Ralph Turner]

For me the most valid criterion for P-P vs. Linfield was the record versus common opponents:

P-P 10-4
Linfield 7-5

[Piobark]

Before you make the assumption that Lewis and Clark = Cal Tech, perhaps you might want to look at games played when LC had Michael Ball on the hill.

Pitching against:

Linfield - lost in the ninth 7-6 on an unearned run
George Fox - Win
Pacific - lost 2-0
Willamette - win
Whitman - win
Whitworth - lost 6-2
Puget Sound - No Decision - left with game tied after 8
PLU - lost 9-8

Was he a super star? No - but he kept his team in games, pitching 7 complete games in league and the 8th game he went 8 innings- on a team very short in pitching.

Lewis and Clark ended up 7-33. Cal Tech was 0-33.

Massey has LC at 278, Cal Tech at 357th

[Richard Hamstocks]

Before you make the assumption that Lewis and Clark = Cal Tech, perhaps you might want to look at games played when LC had Michael Ball on the hill.

Pitching against:

Linfield - lost in the ninth 7-6 on an unearned run
George Fox - Win
Pacific - lost 2-0
Willamette - win
Whitman - win
Whitworth - lost 6-2
Puget Sound - No Decision - left with game tied after 8
PLU - lost 9-8

Was he a super star? No - but he kept his team in games, pitching 7 complete games in league and the 8th game he went 8 innings- on a team very short in pitching.

Lewis and Clark ended up 7-33. Cal Tech was 0-33.

Massey has LC at 278, Cal Tech at 357th

Thanks for the info.  I'm not trying to make the comparison that Lewis & Clark is as bad as Cal Tech.  I don't believe that to be true.  And they certainly seem to be a competitive team when Ball is pitching. 

My point was that if you replace two wins over Cal Tech with two wins over Lewis & Clark, you make up the difference in OWP (.010). 
Pomona-Pitzer was better than Linfield in all the other relevant primary criteria:
1. W/L% in region.
4. In-region results vs common regional opponents (by a lot).
5. In-region results vs regionally ranked teams (using win%).

2. is strength of schedule.
3. is head-to-head and these teams did not play each other.
Thus, the committee decided that beating Lewis & Clark was so much more meaningful than beating Cal Tech as to outweigh all the other primary criteria. (Even if Ball were to beat Pomona-Pitzer, the two teams would be tied with respect to criterion 1 and OWP and leading still in the other 2!)
To me there are two ways this ranking decision can be reached. Either the members of the regional ranking committee are quantitatively illiterate as to not understand what a difference in OWP of .010 represents, or they are corrupt.  Everyone can decide for themselves which they believe to be the case. Either way, I would suggest that they be removed from such responsibility in the future.   

[108 Stitches]

Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.

Will have to check those teams out for the likely Concordia and Trinity match ups for first round games.

[Richard Hamstocks]

Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.

Agreed.  I have to admit that I am clueless as to how regional strength is compared across regions with so little inter-region play occurring.  I understand how Massey does it, and his ratings included quite a few west coast schools near the top (with Pomona-Pitzer ranked 7th in the nation).  He uses the little inter-region data that's available (they beat Rutgers-Newark and Kean and only lost to Ithaca). 
Hopefully the NCAA took note of what happened in the West, and they'll look to implement some changes in the way regional rankings are done.

[BigPoppa]

Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.
Will have to check those teams out for the likely Concordia and Trinity match ups for first round games.

I may, or may not, have a guy on the inside.

[Ralph Turner]

Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.

Agreed.  I have to admit that I am clueless as to how regional strength is compared across regions with so little inter-region play occurring.  I understand how Massey does it, and his ratings included quite a few west coast schools near the top (with Pomona-Pitzer ranked 7th in the nation).  He uses the little inter-region data that's available (they beat Rutgers-Newark and Kean and only lost to Ithaca). 
Hopefully the NCAA took note of what happened in the West, and they'll look to implement some changes in the way regional rankings are done.

Coe and St John's are both Pool A bids and probably ranked 5/6 range in their respective regions.

[Richard Hamstocks]

Thank goodness the NCAA did not put in Linfield. BigPoppa was right, Coe and St. John's get shipped in.

Agreed.  I have to admit that I am clueless as to how regional strength is compared across regions with so little inter-region play occurring.  I understand how Massey does it, and his ratings included quite a few west coast schools near the top (with Pomona-Pitzer ranked 7th in the nation).  He uses the little inter-region data that's available (they beat Rutgers-Newark and Kean and only lost to Ithaca). 
Hopefully the NCAA took note of what happened in the West, and they'll look to implement some changes in the way regional rankings are done.

Coe and St John's are both Pool A bids and probably ranked 5/6 range in their respective regions.

Right, but putting them in the West still involved a comparison of the Pool C teams across regions. 
I've seen lots of people claim the West is down this year, but the only argument is that there are few teams with 30+ wins.  But of course, most games are played in-region.
For instance, a very good Kean team had a W/L% of .784 when not playing west coast schools, and only .667 on their trip out west.  There's lots of reasons for this, the travel being the most obvious, but it's also evidence that the West wasn't as bad as people thought this year. (At the same time, a not-so-good Rutgers-Newark team was 4-1 against the West...) 

[CrashDavisD3]

The West Regional's came out the right way. The process worked but the Regional Rankings process is broke. SOS is broken also in the West. Hopefully the NCAA looks at adjusting the current process.

[Ron Boerger]

Love this from twitter this morning:

@d3baseball Neither got in, actually. RT @OsportsExaminer: @d3baseball explain Linfield getting in over co-champ Pacific. Pac also beat Lin 2 out of 3.

Not sure what @OsportsExaminer was reading ...

[Richard Hamstocks]

Love this from twitter this morning:

@d3baseball Neither got in, actually. RT @OsportsExaminer: @d3baseball explain Linfield getting in over co-champ Pacific. Pac also beat Lin 2 out of 3.

Not sure what @OsportsExaminer was reading ...

d3's mock regionals. I'm wondering what d3baseball is thinking as well.  It adds legitimacy to the whole fiasco.

[BigPoppa]

Love this from twitter this morning:

@d3baseball Neither got in, actually. RT @OsportsExaminer: @d3baseball explain Linfield getting in over co-champ Pacific. Pac also beat Lin 2 out of 3.

Not sure what @OsportsExaminer was reading ...

d3's mock regionals. I'm wondering what d3baseball is thinking as well.  It adds legitimacy to the whole fiasco.

None of it really matters anymore, does it?