BB: Top Teams in West Region

[CrashDavisD3]

TexasBB,

Chapman is one of the most successful programs in the West the past 10 years. They lost one of the top pitchers to the draft last year(Jt), as well as two others to injuries. They are just in a transition year and are a very young team, which based on what I saw was quite talented and will be back in the win column next year. Their coach is well respected. Crash and some others may be disappointed but sometimes programs have transition years and they are going through one this year. They could be a scary 4 seed in the SCIAC tournament if they can get in.

Chapman has not had transition year until 2012 when they missed the regional playoffs. Chapman has only missed the regional playoffs twice since 1997. And you are right, they indeed lost all of the pitching staff that was there from 2011/2012. #1 to draft, #2 Injury #3 injury #4 graduate #5 left the team #6 is the only pitcher to return.

Chapman's biggest problem in 2013 is not pitching and is not defense(Better Team ERA than Cal Lu..Tied with Cal Lu for best fielding%)

Chapman's problem is scoring runs...14 times scoring 3 or less runs. Chapman could be top team in 2014 with only 1 senior starter not being back. Yes a very young team with some real talent...Team hitting .257 avg .329 oba .311 slg  (ranked 7th in SCIAC in hitting)
http://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/bsb/2012-13/teams/chapman?view=lineup

Chapman still has a shot at SCIAC playoff spot at #4 but they have 10 SCIAC games left which they need to win almost all of them to get in.

[Piobark]

The Chapman situation is one that makes me wonder about the importance of being in a conference. Assuming that the goal is to make the playoffs, which is easier - winning your league or getting selected as an independent.

In many ways Chapman was the Notre Dame Football of D3 previously - picking their own schedule and enjoying a great reputation. I wonder if they are regretting the move (from a baseball national title perspective - I understand and appreciate the value of league competition for the broader range of sports.)

[ILVBB]

In the west, it may no longer be feasible to be independent, given the cost of travel and the need to play the majority of game in region. Without being in the SCIAC Chapman would likely need to increase their travel to either head north or to Texas to be able to get enough in-region games. You add in "competition levels" of certain programs it would make getting enough quality games as an independent nearly impossible (without incurring added travel cost).

Most of D3 is blind to the travel and distance issues that teams in the west face.

[Spence]

How many D3 schools are within 60 miles of Chapman?

[108 Stitches]

How many D3 schools are within 60 miles of Chapman?

Pretty much the SCIAC except CLU.

ILVBB summarized it pretty well, for Chapman to play teams outside of the SCIAC they have to get on a plane. I checked and the oldest schedule I could get to was from 2011. It is below. It looks like they had a lot of teams coming to them, in particular the NWest schools and schools from the East, plus some DII, and NAIA games. Looks like two plane trips. Not sure if they would be able to get the out of region teams in with the new rule changes plus the non DIII games don't count.

   
   
Feb. 5   Whittier
   Whittier
Feb. 10   at Pomona-Pitzer
Feb. 14   at Pomona-Pitzer
Feb. 18   at McMurry
Feb. 19   at McMurry
   at McMurry
Feb. 25   Willamette
   Pomona-Pitzer
Feb. 27   at Claremont-M-S
Mar. 5   Wabash
Mar. 6   Wabash
   Wabash
Mar. 11   Kean
Mar. 12   Rutgers-Newark
Mar. 14   Ithaca
Mar. 15   Ithaca
Mar. 19   at La Verne
   at La Verne
Mar. 20   La Verne
Mar. 26   Wheaton (Ill.)
   Wheaton (Ill.)
   Wheaton (Ill.)
Apr. 5   Claremont-M-S
Apr. 6   Cal Lutheran
Apr. 8   Cal St. San Marcos
Apr. 16   at Linfield
   at Linfield
Apr. 17   at Linfield
   at Linfield
Apr. 21   at Pt. Loma Nazerene
Apr. 23   at Cal St. San Marcos
   at Cal St. San Marcos
Apr. 30   Dallas
   Dallas
May. 1   Dallas
May. 6   Redlands
May. 7   at Redlands
   at Redlands

Crash regarding your stats, when I saw Chapman early in the season I thought they had poor approach to their at bats. This is an area I think players significantly improve as they mature, so I would expect them to be better in this area next year. 

[Spence]

Seems to me Chapman has it better than most. I wouldn't think Arizona was a plane flight for the SCIAC teams.

I would think the Texas and Pac NW schools incur more travel than Chapman and the SCIAC.

And most of the region benefits from not having to play a bunch of games down south. Imagine being in Duluth and still having snow on your field, today. Scholastica doesn't have another home game until the 19th, and their only other scheduled one was cancelled.

Or imagine being an hour or more from the nearest D-III school, including the ones in your conference. That's true for quite a few teams I can think of (and probably many I don't) -- Marietta, Averett, Ferrum, Huntingdon, Birmingham Southern, Rhodes, probably Spalding, Concordia-Moorhead, UW-Stevens Point, Castleton State I would think.

Imagine barely being able to get outside, then getting on a bus and trucking 12-16 hours or more, then getting off the bus and playing ballgames.

Portland to LA is a shorter trip than Ohio or New Jersey to Fort Myers or Orlando. LA to San Antonio isn't much further.

[ILVBB]

The SoCal and PNW teams have the same problem. They can play themselves or they have to get on an airplane. The Texas schools have more options, but rather than get on a plane many of the schools represent an 8-12 hour bus ride.

Chapman has the eight other schools in their conference otherwise it is a 1,000 mile to Portland, 1,200 miles to Seattle or 1,400 miles to Texas. For reference here is the mileage from Chapman (Orange, CA) to each team in the west region. You can do the same thing for the other teams, the problem is the same. You either play more than 1/2 your schedule in your conference, play the local NAIA or D2 programs or get on a plane for a 2-5 hour flight (plus bus time).

For those that don't know where some of these towns are; getting to Sul Ross is a flight with at least a plane change to El Paso, TX and then a 2.5 hour bus ride) -- not practical. How about going to Conway, AR for a midweek game from say Spokane (9 hour flight, two plan changes and a 1 hour bus rid) - not going to happen. The logistics in the west are not understood or apreciated by most D3 followers.

I recognize weather is an issue for northern teams, but once the weather turns, then distances are not an issue.

Institution   Location    Conference    Chapman to (in miles):
         
Concordia-Texas   Austin, TX   ASC    1,360
East Texas Baptist   Marshall, TX   ASC    1,569
Hardin-Simmons   Abilene, TX   ASC    1,237
Howard Payne   Brownwood, TX   ASC    1,614
LeTourneau   Longview, TX   ASC    1,546
Louisiana College   Pineville, LA   ASC    1,722
Mary Hardin-Baylor   Belton, TX   ASC    1,395
Mississippi College   Clinton, MS   ASC    1,813
Schreiner   Kerrville, TX   ASC    1,126
Sul Ross State   Alpine, TX   ASC    1,004
Texas Lutheran   Seguin, TX   ASC    1,203
Texas-Dallas   Richardson, TX   ASC    1,431
Texas-Tyler   Tyler, TX   ASC    1,517
University of the Ozarks   Clarksville, AR   ASC    1,560
George Fox   Newberg, OR   NWC    978
Lewis and Clark   Portland, OR   NWC    994
Linfield   McMinnville, OR   NWC    976
Pacific Lutheran   Tacoma, WA   NWC    1,137
Pacific   Forest Grove, OR   NWC    1,013
Puget Sound   Tacoma, WA   NWC    1,137
Whitman   Walla Walla, WA   NWC    1,061
Whitworth   Spokane, WA   NWC    1,234
Willamette   Salem, OR   NWC    950
Hendrix   Conway, AR   SAA    1,629
Austin   Sherman, TX   SCAC    1,404
Centenary (La.)   Shrevesport, LA   SCAC    1,607
Southwestern   Georgetown, TX   SCAC    1,362
Trinity (Texas)   San Antonio, TX   SCAC    1,335
University of Dallas   Irving, TX   SCAC    1,431
Cal Lutheran   Thousand Oaks, CA   SCIAC    71
Caltech   Pasadena, CA   SCIAC    41
Chapman   Orange, CA   SCIAC   
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps   Claremont, CA   SCIAC    29
La Verne   La Verne, CA   SCIAC    26
Occidental   Los Angeles, CA   SCIAC    40
Pomona-Pitzer   Claremont, CA   SCIAC    29
Redlands   Redlands, CA   SCIAC    50
Whittier   Whittier, CA   SCIAC    26

Spence, there are no D3 teams in AZ (nor Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, etc.)

[Spence]

There aren't any D-III teams in Florida or South Carolina either, but many games are played there.

And games are played in Arizona as well, which is a good idea. Could do the same thing in Texas...Marietta went to Abilene for spring trip a few times.

You're unlikely to find much sympathy here. I wonder how long it takes to get from Wheaton Mass. to Fort Myers, FL. Much longer than it takes to go straight up I-5 from LA to Portland, that's for sure.

[108 Stitches]

I agree that the SCIAC conference is a perfect fit for Chapman. It is a nice compact group of schools. The only downside is that it may only be 90 miles to CLU, but with LA traffic it can take 5 hours. SoCal has perfect baseball weather and teams from out of the region want to come both from the Northwest or East. They could probably still fill in a schedule as an independent, but it is much better for them in a conference.

You are correct about the NW and Tx conferences. It is much easier in the new SCAC as Tx teams have a max bus ride of 7-8 hours . Those long 12 hour rides to Hendrix and BSC won't happen very often now. (both good and bad) NWC has similar 4-6 hour rides. I would like to see Trinity start going to Arizona, I think it will help their SoS, maybe they will get enough financial support now from the University that they can add this away trip.

I think the NE schools typically have more options as far as teams, but the compact schedules and weather are a killer. I have no idea how those kids are able to get in school work with a 5 game/week schedule plus make up games. It does seem to help them come regional time as it has been discussed here over and over.

The West certainly has its challenges, but if I was a ball player I would MUCH rather be out here than the NW or NE

[ILVBB]

Going to AZ can work as long as you can schedule multiple teams before spring training begins. Once spring training begins, fields become less accessable, hotel rooms double or triple in price and flights become more expensive.

I have always thought that teams with good central locations (Dallas, LA, Seattle, Portland) could host 3 teams over a weekend. This could allow for 3-5 games against at least 3 teams. This could help make travel costs more bearable.

Spence; I don't want to argue with you, but a northern team traveling to Florida to get games in before the weather turns is not the same as being limited to 6-7 teams that don't require a flight. Cold weather teams have the option of waiting till the weather turns (which some do). You can not wait for Seattle to move closer to Texas.

One of the reason the SCAC blew up was travel costs. You start advocating that D3 schools spend more on travel and you will see schools drop sports rather than incurring large travel costs which do not directly go into educational programs. Since I began following D3 ball, the two teams in my area have droped from the D3 landscape because of lack of local competion and travel (CSUEB to D2 and Menlo to NAIA).  Creating rules intended to enhance competition without recognizing the financial consequences may end up with result that were unintended by design.

[Spence]

I agree that the SCIAC conference is a perfect fit for Chapman. It is a nice compact group of schools. The only downside is that it may only be 90 miles to CLU, but with LA traffic it can take 5 hours.

This is why it'll take a lot for me to ever move out there.

You are correct about the NW and Tx conferences. It is much easier in the new SCAC as Tx teams have a max bus ride of 7-8 hours . Those long 12 hour rides to Hendrix and BSC won't happen very often now. (both good and bad) NWC has similar 4-6 hour rides. I would like to see Trinity start going to Arizona, I think it will help their SoS, maybe they will get enough financial support now from the University that they can add this away trip.

I think the NE schools typically have more options as far as teams, but the compact schedules and weather are a killer. I have no idea how those kids are able to get in school work with a 5 game/week schedule plus make up games.

Very dedicated players, voice mail, and coaches that could probably minor as weather forecasters.

It does seem to help them come regional time as it has been discussed here over and over.

The West certainly has its challenges, but if I was a ball player I would MUCH rather be out here than the NW or NE

Even the Oregon teams seem to have less trouble getting games in than the midwest or northeast.

[Spence]

Going to AZ can work as long as you can schedule multiple teams before spring training begins. Once spring training begins, fields become less accessable, hotel rooms double or triple in price and flights become more expensive.

I have always thought that teams with good central locations (Dallas, LA, Seattle, Portland) could host 3 teams over a weekend. This could allow for 3-5 games against at least 3 teams. This could help make travel costs more bearable.

That would be a good idea. Montclair State and Huntingdon did trips to Marieta and Muskingum this year. Marietta is going to New Jersey next year. A lot of the midwestern teams play in Minneapolis but that's not going to be an option much longer.

Spence; I don't want to argue with you, but a northern team traveling to Florida to get games in before the weather turns is not the same as being limited to 6-7 teams that don't require a flight. Cold weather teams have the option of waiting till the weather turns (which some do). You can not wait for Seattle to move closer to Texas.

It's not that much different either. It's long travel, overnight travel, most of the time on a bus, to play ballgames. How many teams play in Florida...150? More? They're not doing it for free.

One of the reason the SCAC blew up was travel costs. You start advocating that D3 schools spend more on travel and you will see schools drop sports rather than incurring large travel costs which do not directly go into educational programs.

The SCAC had league opponents from Indiana to south Texas. There was very little sense to that. Not the same as any of the West region conferences. The UAA is even more geographically far-flung but they found a solution to their problems (play all their conference games in Florida). I think Wooster has also played conference games in Florida before...against schools that are not very far from them at all!

Since I began following D3 ball, the two teams in my area have droped from the D3 landscape because of lack of local competion and travel (CSUEB to D2 and Menlo to NAIA).  Creating rules intended to enhance competition without recognizing the financial consequences may end up with result that were unintended by design.

If East Bay and Menlo didn't recognize that they were going to have to travel to play, then their decisions were poorly thought out. But I would have a lot more understanding for that than people complaining because they have to travel to play out of league but their whole league is within 100 miles.

Long story short, we all have problems.

[Ralph Turner]

McMurry would fly to the AZ tourney and the Chapman when they were playing each other.

The problem in the ASC is that you can get a 40 game season., but it is for the most part, the same 20 teams from which to choose, (i.e., the ASC-14 or 15 and the SCAC-West 5).

When you are looking at the number of unique teams played by conference membere, by which the OWP/OOWP and SOS are calulated, you get the same 20 teams for the ASC and the Texas teams.

The West coast teams may get that to 25 with the west coast snow birds, but those have not been  in-region.

[TexasBB]

UTT won the nightcap 8-5 to take 2 out of 3 from Centenary.

Their set up man and closer worked well this series.

[108 Stitches]

Congrats to UTT. They move up on my top 25....well if I had one....OK I move them up on Crashes top team in the West.