BB: Top Teams in West Region

[Spence]

Spence who is whining? We have an intelligent discussion and then you start throwing around insults. It really is not necessary.

What insult? Demonstrating absurdity by being absurd is not an insult.

Every time you talk about how things can't be done because of missed class time, academic responsibility etc. when they are being done somewhere else, I'm going to throw it right back in your face. Because it is an insult to the many athletes that do perform in the classroom and on the field and play several ballgames a week and ride a bus and play games on short notice, etc. It can be done, it is being done, and there is no sacrifice of academics being made to do so and for you to suggest otherwise, explicitly or implicitly, is not tolerable to me.

That's what you're going to get, every time, from now on. So I would suggest filing it because it's not going to fly anymore.

I eventually found the tab. The bit about "if baseball gets more, everyone else will" that someone posted earlier doesn't seem to be holding in the data I've looked at so far.

[Spence]

Spence - don't forget the impact of Title IX. You can not always just spend more for travel without looking at the consiquences of Title IX. Let's just say a west team wants to take an additional trip to get 3-4 more in region games; so just fund raise. Flights, hotels, ground transportation and food a weekend can run $15K to $20k. Now let's factor in Title IX when the school makeup is 60% women and 40% men. The fund raising is now $20K for the baseball team and $23K for the women's program to ensure compliance with Title IX.

The effective cost -- $40 to $45K for that extra trip.

This is not how Title IX works at all. That's all I'm going to say.

Actually, I'm also going to say your numbers are horse hockey. Heidelberg baseball's entire operating expenses in 2011 was a little over $21k, and they make a Florida trip.

[ILVBB]

Spence - please get out a map and look at the distances. A simple travel budget; Texas to LA for 28 players and coaches, two nights in a hotel, bus for three days, food for three days, and one checked bag per player.

Airfare - $400 per person - $11,200
Hotel - 14 rooms at $100 per room - 2,800
Food - 28 people at $40 per person - 1,120
Bus - $1,200 per day -$3,600
Extra Bag - 25 players at $25 per person - $550

Total cost - $19,270.

My sons went to school in San Antonio; it is a 20 hour drive from LA in a car; my guess is you need to add a couple hours in a bus.

As to Title IX; you had better check your facts. I have been down this road with my son's baseball team. We had to curtail baseball only fundraising because of Title IX compliance.

[Spence]

Spence - please get out a map and look at the distances. A simple travel budget; Texas to LA for 28 players and coaches, two nights in a hotel, bus for three days, food for three days, and one checked bag per player.

Airfare - $400 per person - $11,200
Hotel - 14 rooms at $100 per room - 2,800
Food - 28 people at $40 per person - 1,120
Bus - $1,200 per day -$3,600
Extra Bag - 25 players at $25 per person - $550

Total cost - $19,270.

My sons went to school in San Antonio; it is a 20 hour drive from LA in a car; my guess is you need to add a couple hours in a bus.

As to Title IX; you had better check your facts. I have been down this road with my son's baseball team. We had to curtail baseball only fundraising because of Title IX compliance.

I woudl suggesting look at that link above. It makes clear that funding is definitely not a like-for-like deal. Either every school in the country is cheating, or Title IX doesn't work like you say and like your school thinks it does. Maybe you were fed a line of bull by someone trying to keep people happy...I don't know. What I do know is that there are discrepancies and sometimes large ones for funding by sport at the same school.

I'm not here to tell people how to run their programs or how to do it better or more efficiently. Frankly I have no interest in helping programs become more competitive, especially ones with the built-in advantages southern and western teams have.

Schools are obviously doing it cheaper than the numbers you lay out. It's not my job to tell you how.

[playball]

I'm not here to tell people how to run their programs or how to do it better or more efficiently. Frankly I have no interest in helping programs become more competitive, especially ones with the built-in advantages southern and western teams have.

Schools are obviously doing it cheaper than the numbers you lay out. It's not my job to tell you how.

Enlighten us all  with how western teams have built in advantages please

[Spence]

Enlighten us all  with how western teams have built in advantages please

Tell me you're not serious.

You started playing in February. It's snowing in Minnesota today.

[playball]

Enlighten us all  with how western teams have built in advantages please

Tell me you're not serious.

You started playing in February. It's snowing in Minnesota today.

Travel.    And now I think its evident why you have such a poor karma score

[ILVBB]

I am sorry that you can't stand up straight with that chip on your sholder.

There are pro's and con's to everything in life. Weather is not an advantage, it is an enviromental factor. Weather doesn't win game and it doesn't lose games. It only dictates when games are played.

[playball]

Also, weather in the NW sucks! 

[Spence]

Travel.    And now I think its evident why you have such a poor karma score

It's because a sizable group of people a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away?) intentionally did it. It means nothing to me. Not sure why it means anything to you.

Even some of your West region brethren have said the travel complaints are overblown. Not sure what else I can say. I don't care anymore...complain about it all you want. No one's going to care, no one's going to have sympathy, no one's going to cut you a break.

[Spence]

Also, weather in the NW sucks!

It's usually playable though, early in the year even. Playing with snow on the ground is pretty well impossible. I've seen games played with air temps below freezing and wind chills well below freezing.

The weather advantage for Cali. and Texas is certainly greater than Oregon though. I'll give you that. In the south they can get outside all year round for the most part.

The other big advantage -- again moreso in TX and CA -- is local talent pool. There's just so much more talent in the south because of the weather factor -- you can just play a lot more growing up down there.

[Spence]

I am sorry that you can't stand up straight with that chip on your sholder.

There are pro's and con's to everything in life. Weather is not an advantage, it is an enviromental factor. Weather doesn't win game and it doesn't lose games. It only dictates when games are played.

Tell that to the top programs that come from the east coast to play early, often lose a few, but then end up much better by year's end than the teams they lost to early.

Tell the St. Scholastica team that might only have 5 regular season home games this year that weather's not a disadvantage.

[108 Stitches]

Spence who is whining? We have an intelligent discussion and then you start throwing around insults. It really is not necessary.

What insult? Demonstrating absurdity by being absurd is not an insult.

Every time you talk about how things can't be done because of missed class time, academic responsibility etc. when they are being done somewhere else, I'm going to throw it right back in your face. Because it is an insult to the many athletes that do perform in the classroom and on the field and play several ballgames a week and ride a bus and play games on short notice, etc. It can be done, it is being done, and there is no sacrifice of academics being made to do so and for you to suggest otherwise, explicitly or implicitly, is not tolerable to me.

That's what you're going to get, every time, from now on. So I would suggest filing it because it's not going to fly anymore.

I eventually found the tab. The bit about "if baseball gets more, everyone else will" that someone posted earlier doesn't seem to be holding in the data I've looked at so far.

Be careful with the data Spence as it has found to be inaccurate in several of the programs I researched. I  have found that there is no allocation of private money, and only money that is "required to be reported" and I am not sure of the specifics. I know some programs spend a lot more than is being reported there. It is an interesting reference but because of inaccuracies in the data you may end up coming to the wrong conclusion.

I don't understand your logic regarding travel and games/week. Absurd? Why would an administrator put his kids under additional  stress when it is not academically required? Because it is being done someplace else? Not happening.  What do you think any university president is going to say to a coach who suggest they delay their start, compress their games, and move their schedule into finals -  so they have a better chance in a Regional? I know what they will say. "The door is that way coach". I know have them say "because Spence says it is possible on a DIII baseball.com....Now THAT is absurd!

How can you say there is no sacrifice as far as academics in situations you refer to?  I can tell you I know several current DIII ball players who are pursuing  engineering and science degrees and they struggle to keep up both academics and athletics. If you compress their schedules something has to suffer, and it WILL be academics. I understand there may be kids doing it, but they are disadvantaged academically because of it. I would also bet that many can't get their degrees in 4 years, as it is hard enough to do this without athletics.

You were correct that each areas of the country have advantages and disadvantages - this is not going to change.

[Spence]

Be careful with the data Spence as it has found to be inaccurate in several of the programs I researched. I  have found that there is no allocation of private money, and only money that is "required to be reported" and I am not sure of the specifics. I know some programs spend a lot more than is being reported there. It is an interesting reference but because of inaccuracies in the data you may end up coming to the wrong conclusion.

Honestly, I don't buy this much. I don't think schools would give false data. The numbers for baseball make sense to me with regard to what I would expect to be some of the high-budget programs (Cortland, Montclair, Emory, Whitewater with Kean, Webster, Marietta, St. Thomas, Denison behind that...I'm sure I've left some out because I didn't look at every school, obviously)

I don't understand your logic regarding travel and games/week. Absurd? Why would an administrator put his kids under additional  stress when it is not academically required? Because it is being done someplace else? Not happening.  What do you think any university president is going to say to a coach who suggest they delay their start, compress their games, and move their schedule into finals -  so they have a better chance in a Regional? I know what they will say. "The door is that way coach". I know have them say "because Spence says it is possible on a DIII baseball.com....Now THAT is absurd!

Refer to earlier statement with regard to no longer caring and no one feeling sympathy for you. Just because you choose not to consider options doesn't mean they're not there. The option you lay out is rather absurd...it's also nothing like anything I've said. But you really kicked the crap out of that strawman.

I would be surprised if there is any school where the college/university president is involved in baseball schedules.

How can you say there is no sacrifice as far as academics in situations you refer to?  I can tell you I know several current DIII ball players who are pursuing  engineering and science degrees and they struggle to keep up both academics and athletics. If you compress their schedules something has to suffer, and it WILL be academics. I understand there may be kids doing it, but they are disadvantaged academically because of it. I would also bet that many can't get their degrees in 4 years, as it is hard enough to do this without athletics.

If you say ANYTHING like this again, it's being reported. This is your warning. You do NOT have the right to take swipes at the academics of a school just because they don't do things the way you say they should.

I know one school that competes very well in D-III baseball and has one of the finest departments of petroleum engineering in the country, and some players are petroleum engineering majors and the chair of the department is a big baseball fan. They get it done.

And HOW DARE you CONTINUE to take shots at their work and imply that corners are being cut after NUMEROUS requests to stop? Who the hell do you think you are?

[playball]

If you say ANYTHING like this again, it's being reported. This is your warning. You do NOT have the right to take swipes at the academics of a school just because they don't do things the way you say they should.

I know one school that competes very well in D-III baseball and has one of the finest departments of petroleum engineering in the country, and some players are petroleum engineering majors and the chair of the department is a big baseball fan. They get it done.

And HOW DARE you CONTINUE after NUMEROUS requests to take shots at their work and imply that corners are being cut? Who the hell do you think you are?

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little