BB: Top Teams in West Region

[Spence]

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little

Who said things aren't being done as they should? Do you have some evidence that they're not?

By the way, I reported this post to the moderator pending your evidence. Ball's in your court.

[108 Stitches]

RE: Academics.

This is basic logic Spence it is not an attack on any person, program or university.

If a player has to play two more games a week, this is a minimum of 10 hours a week not available for academics. If a player has 3-4 labs a week, and you impact those, then a player loses 3 hours for every day lost. You move the baseball season into finals, this is an additional 50 hours in a week taken away from academics. This WILL impact a player, regardless of where they go to school. Kids in the Northeast are doing it but they are disadvantaged to kids who have a season spread out. It is just facts. An administrator will simply not allow this if he does not have to. Now take into account a conferences and multiple schools it simply will not happen.

[Spence]

RE: Academics.

This is basic logic Spence it is not an attack on any person, program or university.

If a player has to play two more games a week, this is a minimum of 10 hours a week not available for academics. If a player has 3-4 labs a week, and you impact those a player loses 3 hours for every day lost. You move the baseball season into finals, this is an additional 50 hours in a week taken away from academics. This WILL impact a player, regardless of where they go to school. Kids in the North East are doing it but they are disadvantaged to kids who have a season spread out. It is just facts.

No, they are not disadvantaged.

And this post has also been reported. This has gone on long enough. You've insinuated several times now that practically anyone that plays baseball in the east or north is sacrificing education for sports. It's simply baseless other than the strawman arguments you put up and the parameters you yourself impose as if they actually exist.

[TexasBB]

Wow lets all just chill. Some teams have travel budgets and are better endowed and can afford to put more into sports. Others do not. My son went to UTT. That program started athletics in 2004. UTT has been successful in baseball but they do not travel beyond bus range unless they make it to the regionals. That has been the case since 2004 and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Do I like it, no. But that is the case with many, perhaps most DIV III schools. There are always some that are very well endowed and can afford to spend more on all things including sports. UTT has a fine facility that was donated primarily from a wealthy patron. That facility is for both baseball and softball. However, travel is a different issue and the university has restricted it.

[ThunderShoots]

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little

Who said things aren't being done as they should? Do you have some evidence that they're not?

By the way, I reported this post to the moderator pending your evidence. Ball's in your court.

Ooh - somebody is in trouble now.   .

Spence, what fine institution's honor are you defending?

[ILVBB]

Spence - don't forget the impact of Title IX. You can not always just spend more for travel without looking at the consiquences of Title IX. Let's just say a west team wants to take an additional trip to get 3-4 more in region games; so just fund raise. Flights, hotels, ground transportation and food a weekend can run $15K to $20k. Now let's factor in Title IX when the school makeup is 60% women and 40% men. The fund raising is now $20K for the baseball team and $23K for the women's program to ensure compliance with Title IX.

The effective cost -- $40 to $45K for that extra trip.

This is not how Title IX works at all. That's all I'm going to say.

Actually, I'm also going to say your numbers are horse hockey. Heidelberg baseball's entire operating expenses in 2011 was a little over $21k, and they make a Florida trip.

I looked at Heidelberg's webpage and see that they did make at 9-day trip to Florida this year. By my estimates; unless they are funding it outside of their reported baseball budget they would have probably used 120% of their operating budget on this trip.

Assuming the following:

9 days of chartered bus at $800 a day (my experience has been they cost closer to $1,200 per day).
9 days at $25 per player and coach for food.
14 hotel rooms (2 per room) at $100 per night for 9 nights.

This alone totals up to nearly $25K and that is before field, game and umpire costs. I am suspect of Heidelberg's operating budget when you factor in the cost of a 9-day Florida trip. My point is cost is a factor for all teams; however, the distances in the west make it a cost which is difficult to wait out until the weather improves.

My point is that travel is expensive and all schools have it. The cold weather schools travel at the beginning of the season to get playing time. The west schools have to travel to ensure that they get enough in region games.

However, once the weather improves the regions where you can get in games without excessive travel have an advantage once you get to how the NCAA evaluates teams. West teams have limited choices as to teams they can play to get their "in region" quota. Yes they get on the field earlier, but in the end they play the same number of games. The difference is there are less options as to teams they can play.

This discussion started with someone speculating as to whether Chapman would be better off as an independant. A great deal has been said which is based upon biased opinion and little on fact. The west is different than the rest of the country only because of the distances that exsists between the three areas where teams are located.

[Spence]

Wow lets all just chill. Some teams have travel budgets and are better endowed and can afford to put more into sports. Others do not. My son went to UTT. That program started athletics in 2004. UTT has been successful in baseball but they do not travel beyond bus range unless they make it to the regionals.

24 hours is bus range for teams in Massachusetts on their spring trip. That's why I asked whether schools out west get spring break.

You're right...not many D-III programs fly. But a lot of them bus for a long time at one point or another.

That link shows UT-Tyler as a sort of medium-budget program. (50-60k IIRC).

[ILVBB]

Yes; schools in the west do get spring break. That is when the cold weather schools come to play !

[Spence]

However, once the weather improves the regions where you can get in games without excessive travel have an advantage once you get to how the NCAA evaluates teams. West teams have limited choices as to teams they can play to get their "in region" quota. Yes they get on the field earlier, but in the end they play the same number of games. The difference is there are less options as to teams they can play.

I'm not going to get into details re: budget numbers. Talk to Heidelberg if you want to know how they do it...if they'll tell you.

But as for the quoted part, it's my view that not everything is being done that could to both increase those in-region opportunities and reduce travel costs associated with doing so.

Two of the three West region conferences are pretty compact aside from one trip or another. The other is a 16-team league so it's pretty hard to expect that to be compact. In the long term, it wouldn't surprise me if the SCAC folds and the ASC absorbs it and splits. Given that they're getting 30ish games without all that much travel within their leagues, I don't see what the problem is with a long trip for several games. Again, it's an annual thing back east, just for a different reason.

If they choose not to do it, fine. But you still have made a choice, as noted Canadian philosopher Geddy Lee once said.

[Spence]

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little

Who said things aren't being done as they should? Do you have some evidence that they're not?

By the way, I reported this post to the moderator pending your evidence. Ball's in your court.

Ooh - somebody is in trouble now.   .

Spence, what fine institution's honor are you defending?

The way I see it, hundreds of them.

[108 Stitches]

No, they are not disadvantaged.

And this post has also been reported. This has gone on long enough. You've insinuated several times now that practically anyone that plays baseball in the east or north is sacrificing education for sports. It's simply baseless other than the strawman arguments you put up and the parameters you yourself impose as if they actually exist.

I never said that Spence. The point of these arguments are all about why making a compressed schedule for programs in the West (or South for that matter) will not happen. My points are all about why an administrator is not going to allow this because it will make academics more difficult. It will not happen IMO because of the arguments I layed out.

Of course the corollary to this discussion is that kids in the NE taking difficult majors likely have a more difficult time, which I believe is probably the case. (actually any major for that matter) If you look through some of my previous posts on the subject I have said that I am impressed with the commitment these kids in the NE make because of what they have to go through to compete in baseball on in the classroom.

[playball]

If they aren't doing things as they should, why shouldn't shots be taken?  As for reported, thats kind of ridiculous.  108 isn't even being all that argumentative.  Relax a little

Who said things aren't being done as they should? Do you have some evidence that they're not?

By the way, I reported this post to the moderator pending your evidence. Ball's in your court.

I'm sure the moderator will review this and see that you are bullying.  My evidence of this is your terrible Karma score. 

Also, many student-athletes feel the pinch of practice time against classroom related activity time.  Obviously it depends on your major, but collegiate sports is a large time commitment.  I'm not saying it can not be done, it can.  I played two collegiate sports and did just fine, but it was very difficult.  And I went to school in Oregon, which this board has said has great weather...(has any of you been to Oregon in February-April?!)   With rainouts/rescheduled games that make for a compressed schedule, I can definitely see how a student who is already pressed for time would find it even harder to complete their studies.  A lot of professors will work with athletes however not all will.  Class time is bound to be missed by athletes, but when a contracted athletic schedule means that class time is missed in chunks of time instead of little by little over time the athlete does suffer.

Its logic.

Also, when someone doesn't agree with you you probably shouldn't go to the moderator all the time.  They most likely have better things to do and its very unbecoming

[playball]

Now, back to baseball.

When do the official west region rankings come out?

[Ralph Turner]

Many schools in the ASC-West will spend 10-12 nights on the road in the course of a season.

McMurry went to notebook computers about 7-8 years ago, so athletes could continue to study while on the road, WIFI on the bus and in the hotel rooms.

I am more inclined to think that smart people have figured out what works and what doesn't.  The West Region has the luxury of decent to great weather beginning on many days in January and February.  The 4-day weekend of the Arizona trip gets everyone together in one place.  Then conference play begins in late February and it is study-conducive schedules.

Northern schools get to travel to Florida for a Spring Training experience.  That is like the "Bigs".  An early concentration of games for players to get into their grooves.

Southern California has no other teams against whom there can be mid-week games.  They have to adapt.  I am glad to "Spring Training" comes to them.

The NWC plays NAIA and D-2's!  Not optimal.  The NWC used to slip down for a series with Chapman.Now that the SCIAC is a 9-team conference, like the NWC, there is an open date every week to fill, NWC vs SCIAC, if desired

The Domino effect of the SCAC will give more variety in the mid-week games as TLU and Schreiner can now be mid-week foes for the ASC West teams.

In the ASC and SCAC you develop your #4 and #5 in the mid-week non-conference games.  Then you "battle-test" them in the double elimination conference tourney.

[Ralph Turner]

I think that West Region Rankings come out April 25th