BB: Top Teams in West Region

[Westside]

West side, as a side note to your comments about Zimmer at Whitman - this year's Whitman team could have had easily the best offensive infield in the NWC IF Ozzy Braff hadn't transferred to D1. You'd have Zimmer at 3rd, Vela at SS (who was 2nd team all conference last season as Frosh and batting 370 with power this year) and Braff at 2nd, who was a beast in the NWC, was all conference last year at D1 Mountain West Conference and is tearing it up again this year. That scenario would have been surprising.

Oh yea, I remember. Such a bummer Braff transferred. He was a joy to watch. Vela and Zimmer will be tearing up the league for a few more years too... as long as they don't copy Braff 

[Just_Some_Guy]

Chapman's offense has been solid to very strong, it seems every season since T's departure.  They have/had a number of guys that can really swing it.  What they haven't had is that stable of lights-out pitching, like draft pick guys etc. that they rolled-out for a number of years.  T's penultimate season (I believe), the weekend rotation was essentially Rauh, McGee, Osaki - pretty formidable - although amazingly, that team went 20-20 that year.

Rauh was always lights out. McGee went 4-6 with a 2.64 ERA and Ben Levitt went 2-6 with a 2.55 ERA that year.

The arms that went through that program: Akamine, Klovstad, Ochoa, Drag, Yacko, Kitchens...

[108 Stitches]

I saw both of those Chapman teams and they were solid competitive teams even if they did have a ~20/20 seasons, they were very good baseball teams and if they were playing this year would be dominating the SCIAC teams IMO. You are right Whatagame that winning starts with a good and deep pitching staff, particularly when you get to Regionals. If you have two lights out starters and a decent reliever you can win most weekend series.

When Whitworth went to the CWS they beat Trinity two in a row to get out of the Regional and Trinity, arguably a better team, ran out of pitching. They basically had Lucero and Kimesh and not much else.  When CLU came into the Regional a few years ago with the top offense in the country they were shut down in the Regional by good pitching. When you compare the Trinity teams of 4-6 years ago to now the main differences are the pitching staffs. They finally broke through the Regional last year because of that staff. (they also played great defense and hit)  You see them developing the pitchers now, vs a few years ago when they would just ride a couple of pitching horses into the Regional and get knocked out.

[TexasBB]

108 Stiches,

What you describe has been the bane of UTT for several years. A couple of quality starters with a decent # 3 and a good closer. But no depth. So they can win a weekend series and even a conference tournament. However, once they get to a long multi game regional, they have not had success. Especially if they run into an ace and loose an early game being forced into the loser's bracket. That seems the be a common theme with many of the western teams.  They can start play earlier but because of the limitations on games, they spread those out over a longer time and thus don't develop a #4 or #5 starter and a deep bullpen. The northern teams are forced to cram more games into a shorter time frame and thus must develop more pitching depth.  Or at least that seems to explain why the south and western teams don't dominate at the DIV III level like they do in DIV I or even NAIA.

[Just_Some_Guy]

What you describe has been the bane of UTT for several years. A couple of quality starters with a decent # 3 and a good closer. But no depth.

To be fair, that's true of *most* Division 3 teams.

They can start play earlier but because of the limitations on games, they spread those out over a longer time and thus don't develop a #4 or #5 starter and a deep bullpen. The northern teams are forced to cram more games into a shorter time frame and thus must develop more pitching depth. 

100% agree with this assessment.

Or at least that seems to explain why the south and western teams don't dominate at the DIV III level like they do in DIV I or even NAIA.

Possibly, but I also think the climate is very different. I think DIII sports are just more prevalent/taken more seriously in the North East; whereas, junior college  ball is more the norm in the Western/Southern states. I believe Ralph Turner has addressed this much better than I can somewhere else within these forums.

JSG

[Whatagame]

I saw both of those Chapman teams and they were solid competitive teams even if they did have a ~20/20 seasons, they were very good baseball teams and if they were playing this year would be dominating the SCIAC teams IMO. You are right Whatagame that winning starts with a good and deep pitching staff, particularly when you get to Regionals. If you have two lights out starters and a decent reliever you can win most weekend series.

When Whitworth went to the CWS they beat Trinity two in a row to get out of the Regional and Trinity, arguably a better team, ran out of pitching. They basically had Lucero and Kimesh and not much else.  When CLU came into the Regional a few years ago with the top offense in the country they were shut down in the Regional by good pitching. When you compare the Trinity teams of 4-6 years ago to now the main differences are the pitching staffs. They finally broke through the Regional last year because of that staff. (they also played great defense and hit)  You see them developing the pitchers now, vs a few years ago when they would just ride a couple of pitching horses into the Regional and get knocked out.

I remember one of the big issues with that 20-20, 2012 Chapman team was defense, particularly on the left side of the infield, if I recall.  A quick check shows that almost 30% of the total runs given up by the pitching staff were unearned.  That seems like a lot, but maybe not?

That 2012 Whitworth team was an odd bird, relative to pitching depth and making a run to Appleton.  They really only had one guy, Scheibe, who was a horse.  The rest were a bunch of strike throwers, lower velocity guys if I recall that pitched to a lot of contact.  Whhitworth's team ERA in 2012 was 4.52.  This year's Whitworth squad lacks that ace-type guy, but is probably a better overall staff stuff-wise than '12, they have a very deep lineup offensively this year.

[108 Stitches]

JSG and TexasBB,

These issues have been discussed here for quite awhile. You have some of the WI schools who are large public institutions with limited D1 prospects so they tend to get D1 caliber players, at least in this region. IMO the biggest issue with D3 Western ball is the lack of National seeding for the tournament. As the Linfield players had indicated that the hardest part of the CWS was the Regional playoffs. Trinity saw the same thing last year. A number of the Western regional teams were better (in our opinion) than the some of the teams at the CWS. If you seed it Nationally then you would likely have a higher % of West/South teams. A couple of years ago there were 3 top 12 teams in one Regional, which you would never have in D1 ball. You also have the statistical issue is that there are far fewer Western teams so from a statistical point of view you get a relatively higher % of representation in the top 25. Anyway it is all good, I am looking forward to see who emerges from the ASC and SCIAC this year.

[Ralph Turner]

What you describe has been the bane of UTT for several years. A couple of quality starters with a decent # 3 and a good closer. But no depth.

To be fair, that's true of *most* Division 3 teams.

They can start play earlier but because of the limitations on games, they spread those out over a longer time and thus don't develop a #4 or #5 starter and a deep bullpen. The northern teams are forced to cram more games into a shorter time frame and thus must develop more pitching depth. 

100% agree with this assessment.

Or at least that seems to explain why the south and western teams don't dominate at the DIV III level like they do in DIV I or even NAIA.

Possibly, but I also think the climate is very different. I think DIII sports are just more prevalent/taken more seriously in the North East; whereas, junior college  ball is more the norm in the Western/Southern states. I believe Ralph Turner has addressed this much better than I can somewhere else within these forums.

JSG

Thanks for the nice comments.

I think that the JUCO's in Texas take a lot of the pitching talent of the players who see themselves as "Athlete-students". They think that they are gonna get a D-1 scholarship and so they go to an inexpensive JUCO nearby and play for the D1 and D2 scouts.

I think that we have so many more strong state schools conferences in the top echelon of D3 from the cold weather climates because those pitchers are low D1's/high D-2's who did not get the good offer to go South on a 10% scholarship.

So, we see strong state universities in the north fielding quality teams, e.g., the NJAC, the WIAC, the SUNYAC, the Little East, the MASCAC, and other state universities such as SUNY Old Westbury, Castleton State and Farmingdale State.  Those players can play near home and pay in-state tuition,going to school for less than the expensive of a D-1 in the South.

[Ralph Turner]

If Trinity has gotten to the point that they can develop a pitching staff that lets them win the conference tourney from the consolation bracket, then they will be a force nationally.

I think that the ASC has so many good #1 and #2 pitchers ON EVERY SQUAD, that the every coach is scared not to go with the best guys as long as they can. He cannot risk a bad outing from a #3 versus the #1 from team in the "bottom half" of the conference.  So, the younger guiys do not get developed like we see in the northern teams.

[108 Stitches]

Jack Parman's dinner tonight-

[Jack Parkman]

Jack Parman's dinner tonight-

I'm telling you, I am still not 100% sold.....BUT I will give them a lot of props for what they are doing.  They came back for a walk-off yesterday and smoked Pomona twice today.  They have won a lot of close games (which is what good teams do) and they are on a roll.  If they sweep La Verne next weekend I will be 100% sold on this team.

[BigPoppa]

In terms of JUCO baseball in Southern California, the talent is unreal. As a recruiter, I didn't even waste my time looking at starters in the Orange Empire Conference as most of them were D1 guys (I was a NAIA program), instead I went after their role-players and they generally ended up being all-Americans at the NAIA level. For the rest of California/Arizona, it depended on which school it was when outside of the OEC. There are some school that consistently produced quality student-athletes (who I didn't need to worry about being eligible)... Cerro Cosa, College of the Desert, Arizona Western, Rio Hondo, Mt. SAC, etc...

The best event I attended every year was the Unsigned Sophomore Showcase hosted by Loyal Marymount every fall. D1/D2 college coaches from all over the country attended the event and it was a great networking event for me and I simply tried to scoop up what was left after the D1s had their shots at kids.Many JUCO coaches attend as well and it provided a great chance to open line of communication between myself and their programs so that when players came along in the future, I was on the coaches radar of someone to call about a talented kid.

[Westside]

In terms of JUCO baseball in Southern California, the talent is unreal.

The talent in JUCO ball all over California is just ridiculous. I played on an "average" NorCal JUCO team and over half of our roster went on to play at D1 schools.

[108 Stitches]

Latest West teams in poll.
Through games of Sunday April 3, 2016

#   School (1st votes)   Rec   Pts   Prev.
1   Trinity (Texas) (11)   25-5   594   1
2   Cortland (6)   21-4   591   2
3   UW-Whitewater (8)   11-0   572   4
4   Ramapo   16-1-1   564   3
5   Randolph-Macon   20-5-1   497   5
6   Birmingham-Southern   23-7   486   6
7   Emory   23-7   471   7
8   Shenandoah   19-6   421   9
9   Oswego State   17-3   367   13
10   Whitworth   21-6   344   8
11   Salisbury   15-7   335   12
12   Centenary (La.)   21-6   262   16
13   Texas-Tyler   18-8   240   15
14   Christopher Newport   19-8   227   11
15   UW-La Crosse   10-5   209   18
16   Frostburg State   15-7   204   22
17   Amherst   12-3   189   23
18   North Central (Ill.)   12-2   175   19
19   St. Thomas   9-3   166   21
20   Buena Vista   13-3   161   25
21   Wooster   9-3   157   17
22   McDaniel   20-2   136   24
23   Southern Maine   7-5   101   14
24   Occidental   20-5   90   rv
25   Rutgers-Camden   10-6   86   10

Dropped out: No. 20 TCNJ

Others receiving votes: Berry 49, Luther 37, Mary Washington 36, Misericordia 33, Cal Lutheran 27, Wheaton (Mass.) 26, Western New England 25, Concordia Texas 24, Concordia Chicago 23, TCNJ 21, Wesleyan 18, Earlham  17, Keystone 17, Webster 14, Pacific (Ore.) 14, LaGrange 14, Suffolk 12, Marietta 11, George Fox  9, Mitchell 9, La Roche 9, Piedmont 8, Washington College 7, Ferrum 5, N.C. Wesleyan 5, Elms 3, Rose-Hulman 3, Manhattanville 2, Endicott 2, St. John Fisher 2, Alma 1.

[TexasBB]

What Big Poppa describes about Southern California JUCOs is also the case in Texas. Ralph alluded to that in his post. There are DIV III level JUCOS that play high quality baseball and have won National Championships. (Schools that are in the Dallas County Community College District). Many of these kids end up on NCAA DIV III programs their Junior and Senior years. Of course there are also the DIV I JUCOS that are very competitive nationally. Some but not many of these kids end up in DIV III NCAA programs. Like Big Poppa attested to, these kids tend to be role players that are not likely to receive D-I or D-II scholarships after their sophomore year.  There are also a number of transfers from DIV-I or II NCAA teams that finish with a D-III school. These are kids that may have signed as freshman with a D-I program and find that they are not getting any real playing time so they transfer to a school where they can play and be seen. When Jim Vilade when he was head coach at  UTT  would really push for the JUCO or DIV-1 transfers. He also had scout days where he would bring in professional scouts in to look at his players. He was very successful in placing a lot of players in the Independent Minors after they graduated from UTT. My own son was one of those. Beg borrow and sometimes steal is the life of DIV III coach that is trying to build or maintain a program.