2013 Division III NCAA Tournament

[Just Bill]

Just out of curiosity, exactly what does it mean, anyway, to put in a "bid" to host an event such as this?

I'm asking because a couple of weeks ago a friend and I were talking about the DII Women's Elite Eight being held so far away in San Antonio.  Both being fans of a very good Ashland team, we would have gone had it been closer.  At any rate, he seemed to believe that the people who "bid" and got the tournament actually "bid" a dollar amount to get it, the money going to the NCAA.  I said I was pretty sure that it didn't work that way, but I don't really know.  Anybody know, without going into major detail or revealing state secrets, how it does work?  Is it the same for all divisions?

Putting in a bid means you detail all of the costs you will need the NCAA to cover if you are awarded the right to host. Additionally you lay out all the details of your hosting plan including facility, location, ease of travel, hotels, community support, advertising, emergency procedures, staff and volunteer coverage, area restaurants and probably a dozen more things I didn't think of off the top of my head.

The championships committee looks at your total package including the costs and decides who hosts. If you are selected, then the NCAA will cover your expenses as you laid them out in your bid. So it pays to be accurate.

[Greek Tragedy]

Well, we have a big delay now of two weeks before the Final.  This part of the scheduling is the worst part.  I think, with the D3 Final played at the D1 tourney, they could've done this slightly better.  Before my suggestion, I do realize Salem had to get something out of this since they weren't hosting the actual Final, plus they wanted to get the all-star game in as well.

With a schedule of one game a week on a Saturday, I think it would've made perfect sense to have the Elite 8 round this past weekend and then the Final 4 round next weekend and then the Final the following weekend, as scheduled.  It really puts a damper on things when you play once a week and then play twice in two days and then have two full weeks off before playing again.  Many teams don't even have that long of a break during the Christmas holiday/semester break.

I don't have a solution on how we would fit Salem in there with my suggested schedule, but a two-week gap is just too long! 

I doubt you want to fly out four teams to Salem just to play the semi-final round, so I guess the way they did it was the only way to do it. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

From what I have gathered... 8 teams in Salem was a huge hit to the point that many entities are looking into hosting the Elite 8, Final 4 and then the championship in the future.

Dave, didn't you just say a few days ago, in response to one of my posts, that no one else had as yet stepped up and offered to supplant Salem as the host for DIII basketball?  Are you now saying that, if it were to continue to be an eight-team event, an Elite 8 with a Championship game, that there are other places with new-found interest in doing so?  If this is so, I see that as hopeful news.

Entities as in the NABC, the NCAA, the ODAC, other coaches, etc., etc., etc., etc. No other hosts I am aware of.

As for the schedule, remember two key things: the D1 weekend was moved back a year meaning a normal schedule would have had the D3 title weekend on conference championship weekend this year; the schedule was late in being decided on, so there was less they could do with the six weeks between the end of the season and a title game. Also, the NCAA didn't want to screw Salem who was awarded the opportunity to host the final four. That building is booked accordingly and saying to them thanks, but we have another plan less than a year out isn't good business. Salem was actually able to move the weekend a week to allow a more stretched out tournament... not sure what would have happened if Salem couldn't have done this.

By the way, remember that the two week gap right now is the same gap Amherst and UMHB have already experienced - I think they are up for this . Also, with the distractions in Atlanta... two weeks won't feel like two weeks.

[ziggy]

I wouldn't mind "the Salem experience" expanding to include the elite 8 in future years. I don't think that was the "problem" this year in terms of attendance. I attribute it more to it not being the final destination. The motivation for a fanbase to invest the time and expense into making the trip is far less when a national championship is not on the line.

If Salem does go to on to host the final three rounds, I would like to see the tournament take on the following format:

First round: single games played on campus (30-32 hosts)
Second-Third Round: four-team pods (8 hosts)
Elite 8-Nat'l Championship at Salem

[magicman]

I wouldn't mind "the Salem experience" expanding to include the elite 8 in future years. I don't think that was the "problem" this year in terms of attendance. I attribute it more to it not being the final destination. The motivation for a fanbase to invest the time and expense into making the trip is far less when a national championship is not on the line.

If Salem does go to on to host the final three rounds, I would like to see the tournament take on the following format:

First round: single games played on campus (30-32 hosts)
Second-Third Round: four-team pods (8 hosts)
Elite 8-Nat'l Championship at Salem

I was going to say the same thing ziggy. I like the fact that it gives more schools a chance to host an NCAA tournament game by having single first round games. Eight 4 team pods to get to Salem and then Salem would be an 8 game extravaganza (with the All Star game). It would make for a nice weekend of DIII hoops.

[Ralph Turner]

Playing three games on the weekend would be the ultimate challenge for a team.  Depth would prevail in many years.

[hopefan]

Fantastic weekend of D3 hoops... the problem I would have, and anybody having to travel a significant distance would have, is that it would necessitate 2 extra days off over the current format... ie, with a long day's drive, and hopefully for many people who fly, it's possible to travel on Friday and get to motel and Friday night twin-bill under current Salem setup......  however, if we go to four games Thursday, semis Friday, Final Saturday, travel would have to be done on Wednesday, hence 3 days off...  heck, might as well take the whole week off and enjoy the build up!!!!

[Pat Coleman]

They wouldn't want to play three days in a row. It would have to be Friday, Saturday, Monday. Taking Sunday off gives the guys the chance to bounce back for the title game, plus it eliminates us ever having to worry about what to do if Calvin, Hope, Wheaton, Messiah or another team which won't play on Sunday advances.

As for whether it's 30/32 or 16 first-weekend hosts, remember that if we go to 30/32 hosts then we run the risk of having more geographic issues with our bracket.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I also think the one-game weekend in the first round will be a concern per the two weeks off the bye teams would have to endure. I am not sure the committee or others were thrilled with the idea of having those two weeks off... so, if they could a pod in the first weekend eliminates that and just sets up a simple one-game round the second weekend. That being said, I have also heard from some that both options have their pros and cons, so everything is on the table (except as Pat noted the Sunday game for a championship... that isn't going to happen).

[ziggy]

I also think the one-game weekend in the first round will be a concern per the two weeks off the bye teams would have to endure. I am not sure the committee or others were thrilled with the idea of having those two weeks off... so, if they could a pod in the first weekend eliminates that and just sets up a simple one-game round the second weekend. That being said, I have also heard from some that both options have their pros and cons, so everything is on the table (except as Pat noted the Sunday game for a championship... that isn't going to happen).

Yeah, it definitely works better if/when the field goes to 64 teams. I still like the idea of having a lot of hosting opportunities and would rather the neutral court matchups come in the second weekend than the first. Like you said, pros and cons either way.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I also think the one-game weekend in the first round will be a concern per the two weeks off the bye teams would have to endure. I am not sure the committee or others were thrilled with the idea of having those two weeks off... so, if they could a pod in the first weekend eliminates that and just sets up a simple one-game round the second weekend. That being said, I have also heard from some that both options have their pros and cons, so everything is on the table (except as Pat noted the Sunday game for a championship... that isn't going to happen).

Yeah, it definitely works better if/when the field goes to 64 teams. I still like the idea of having a lot of hosting opportunities and would rather the neutral court matchups come in the second weekend than the first. Like you said, pros and cons either way.

Well... it will happen... I just can't remember the exact timing with the addition of more teams.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I realize it is an awfully small sample to be drawing conclusions, but since the two teams who had the two week layoff this year are the two teams going to Atlanta, it's kind of difficult to conclude that the layoff was harmful!

[fantastic50]

I also think the one-game weekend in the first round will be a concern per the two weeks off the bye teams would have to endure. I am not sure the committee or others were thrilled with the idea of having those two weeks off... so, if they could a pod in the first weekend eliminates that and just sets up a simple one-game round the second weekend. That being said, I have also heard from some that both options have their pros and cons, so everything is on the table (except as Pat noted the Sunday game for a championship... that isn't going to happen).

I think there would be fewer travel issues involved with having single games on the first weekend.  If the single games were on the second weekend (round of 16), this would require a bit more work to avoid the possibility of flights.  As a result, I expect that we would see more rematches of regular-season games (because pods of four teams would be paired geographically).  Personally, I really like the 2/2/2 format that we have used in previous years, but I am biased by my team getting to host frequently.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I realize it is an awfully small sample to be drawing conclusions, but since the two teams who had the two week layoff this year are the two teams going to Atlanta, it's kind of difficult to conclude that the layoff was harmful!

While I agree... I also know each coach was VERY worried how their team would fare as a result of the extra time off... something I know the committee had a concern about as well.

[Pat Coleman]

Yeah, it definitely works better if/when the field goes to 64 teams. I still like the idea of having a lot of hosting opportunities and would rather the neutral court matchups come in the second weekend than the first. Like you said, pros and cons either way.

Well... it will happen... I just can't remember the exact timing with the addition of more teams.

As for 64 teams, we don't have a date for that yet because there aren't enough teams in the pipeline to join Division III. We need 410 schools in order to get to 63 teams and 416 schools in order to get to 64.

If the NCAA's numbers are to be trusted, this year we had 405 eligible for the tournament. Maranatha and Nebraska Wesleyan declared for the NAIA championship, according to the handbook, and I doubt we will get them back in any time soon. Next year, William Peace's new MBB team will be eligible for the NCAA Tournament, and Covenant and Berry should be full members of Division III, giving us 408. There were also a bunch of programs in their first year as provisional members this year, including Southern Virginia, Houghton, Sarah Lawrence, SUNY Canton. If two of them make it through (and nobody else leaves D-III) then we'd get to 410 in 2016-17. After that, it tends to be a year lag before we get the bid we're entitled to.

Also worth keeping an eye on: Wilson College, a full D-III member, announced it would begin admitting male undergraduates. I would presume a men's basketball team would follow. But right now, we only have enough schools in the pipeline to get to 63 teams, not to the 64th.