2013 Division III NCAA Tournament

[madzillagd]

In terms of the validation comment, I think validation is something the fans consider but I don't think it's on the minds of the teams.  These guys would love to have the opportunity to rub shoulders with some of the top people in the game if basketball in general every year. Not only are there coaching greats there but think of the dozens of former players hanging around. Seems like a great idea to me.  A lot of the D3 coaches take advantage of this every year as a chance to hang with their peers, I don't see why it would be a bad thing to have the players get that same experience.

That being said, the schedule would definitely need some tweaking.  The NESCAC doesn't start practices until 11/1 every year, maybe the rest of the country does the same thing and we push games back 2 more weeks.

[Just Bill]

I wouldn't be opposed to having all the championships together, but the D3 Final 4 and championship game has to be played the same weekend. I didn't like the Elite8 and Final Four played one weekend and thw Final a different weekend. Most importantly and probably the biggest complaint, it can't drag on so long.

BTW, where was the game played, whats the capacity and what was the attendence like? Atmosphere?

Wow, you really did disengage didn't you? It was at Phillips Arena (Atlanta Hawks) which seats about 18,200. I believe Pat reported an attendance for the D-III game was about 6,700. From all accounts it was a good crowd that was into the game. The Georgia Tech pep band provided music and entertained.

I'm not opposed to this setup at all, but the scheduling is going to be a bear to overcome. I'm not sure the best way to do it.

- Shift regular season back to align dates with D-I? Now your starting the D-III season in mid-December. Many conferences align schedules with their women's programs for travel/doubleheader purposes, so that messes that up.
- Extend D-III season beyond the current 19 weeks? Not in line with D-III philosophy and probably wouldn't be approved by a majority of schools. Puts a larger strain on athletic staff, trainers, budget, etc. Plus you open up a can of worms from other sports that might want longer seasons.

How do you format a 6-round tournament?
- Ideally you would find a way to play the entire Final Four in one place, like Friday semifinals and a Sunday final, but will the NCAA brass go for that? Especially if you do the same for D-II? Doubtful.
- Play a single first round game, then a four-team pod and another four-team pod before the final for a four-week long tournament? Not bad, but now someone is probably playing a national semifinal on their home floor. That's probably not good.
- How about an 8-team pod, then a 4-team pod, then the final? Fewer opportunities to host. Still playing a semifinal on a home court.

I liked it (and so did Dan Wetzel), but the logistic hurdles are going to be big, if this is going to be a regular thing.

[Ralph Turner]

Pardon my cynicism, but I respectfully ask you to consider this.  Would Dan Wetzel say something bad about a format or a D-III philosopophical tenet about which he has given 10 nanosecods of serious consideration?

We were one of the added attractions to the celebration.  If Wheaton IL had made the Finals, then the schedule would have been challenged.

[Ralph Turner]

I wouldn't be opposed to having all the championships together, but the D3 Final 4 and championship game has to be played the same weekend. I didn't like the Elite8 and Final Four played one weekend and thw Final a different weekend. Most importantly and probably the biggest complaint, it can't drag on so long.

BTW, where was the game played, whats the capacity and what was the attendence like? Atmosphere?

Wow, you really did disengage didn't you? It was at Phillips Arena (Atlanta Hawks) which seats about 18,200. I believe Pat reported an attendance for the D-III game was about 6,700. From all accounts it was a good crowd that was into the game. The Georgia Tech pep band provided music and entertained.

I'm not opposed to this setup at all, but the scheduling is going to be a bear to overcome. I'm not sure the best way to do it.

- Shift regular season back to align dates with D-I? Now your starting the D-III season in mid-December. Many conferences align schedules with their women's programs for travel/doubleheader purposes, so that messes that up.
- Extend D-III season beyond the current 19 weeks? Not in line with D-III philosophy and probably wouldn't be approved by a majority of schools. Puts a larger strain on athletic staff, trainers, budget, etc. Plus you open up a can of worms from other sports that might want longer seasons.

How do you format a 6-round tournament?
- Ideally you would find a way to play the entire Final Four in one place, like Friday semifinals and a Sunday final  (my it alics  RT), but will the NCAA brass go for that? Especially if you do the same for D-II? Doubtful.
- Play a single first round game, then a four-team pod and another four-team pod before the final for a four-week long tournament? Not bad, but now someone is probably playing a national semifinal on their home floor (I think that UMB benefited from "neutral floors" beginning at the Elite 8 [RT] ). That's probably not good.
- How about an 8-team pod, then a 4-team pod, then the final? Fewer opportunities to host. Still playing a semifinal on a home court.I liked it (and so did Dan Wetzel), but the logistic hurdles are going to be big, if this is going to be a regular thing.

Thanks for the comments. +1!

[ziggy]

I wouldn't be opposed to having all the championships together, but the D3 Final 4 and championship game has to be played the same weekend. I didn't like the Elite8 and Final Four played one weekend and thw Final a different weekend. Most importantly and probably the biggest complaint, it can't drag on so long.

BTW, where was the game played, whats the capacity and what was the attendence like? Atmosphere?

The game was at Philips Arena (home of the Atlanta Hawks) and the attendance for the D3 games was reported at 6,500 - all in the lower bowl with the upper level curtained off. Here is a photo I saw yesterday in a Yahoo article.



From reading around these parts since this format was announced, it seemed like this would be a one-time deal. Considering the reaction to the actual event, I'm not so sure. Consider this from UMHB's Ken DeWeese:

"If this format doesn't become permanent then we are not doing a service to the student athletes in Division II and Division III level," said Mary Hardin-Baylor coach Ken DeWeese. "This is the greatest atmosphere in the world for college basketball players. Each team should have the opportunity to aspire to it, regardless of where the Final Four is.
"For Division II and Division III, this is the best thing that has happened."

I am also against a stand-alone national championship game so if the NCAA wants to make this a regular or semi-regular thing I think it has to come at the expense of Salem with the semi-final games being played at the DI Final Four on Friday.

As for a return to the way things have been in Salem or a modified All-NCAA Final Four, I am indifferent so long as the tournament schedule can be adjusted so that the championship game is not played five weeks after the tournament starts.

[AO]

I wouldn't be opposed to having all the championships together, but the D3 Final 4 and championship game has to be played the same weekend. I didn't like the Elite8 and Final Four played one weekend and thw Final a different weekend. Most importantly and probably the biggest complaint, it can't drag on so long.

BTW, where was the game played, whats the capacity and what was the attendence like? Atmosphere?

Wow, you really did disengage didn't you? It was at Phillips Arena (Atlanta Hawks) which seats about 18,200. I believe Pat reported an attendance for the D-III game was about 6,700. From all accounts it was a good crowd that was into the game. The Georgia Tech pep band provided music and entertained.

I liked it (and so did Dan Wetzel), but the logistic hurdles are going to be big, if this is going to be a regular thing.

Logistics schmistics, this is worth doing.

Imagine if the final four was in the home state of one of the D3 schools, or even if one of the D1 final four teams shared a state with a D3 team. 

[Bucket]

Nice piece on the game by John Feinstein in today's Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/willy-stuff-helps-amherst-to-division-iii-national-title/2013/04/07/595e54de-9fc8-11e2-82bc-511538ae90a4_story.html

[Just Bill]

I wouldn't be opposed to having all the championships together, but the D3 Final 4 and championship game has to be played the same weekend. I didn't like the Elite8 and Final Four played one weekend and thw Final a different weekend. Most importantly and probably the biggest complaint, it can't drag on so long.

BTW, where was the game played, whats the capacity and what was the attendence like? Atmosphere?

Wow, you really did disengage didn't you? It was at Phillips Arena (Atlanta Hawks) which seats about 18,200. I believe Pat reported an attendance for the D-III game was about 6,700. From all accounts it was a good crowd that was into the game. The Georgia Tech pep band provided music and entertained.

I liked it (and so did Dan Wetzel), but the logistic hurdles are going to be big, if this is going to be a regular thing.

Logistics schmistics, this is worth doing.

Imagine if the final four was in the home state of one of the D3 schools, or even if one of the D1 final four teams shared a state with a D3 team.

I just said the logistic hurdles were big. I didn't say impossible or not worth doing.

[realist]

I wouldn't be opposed to having all the championships together, but the D3 Final 4 and championship game has to be played the same weekend. I didn't like the Elite8 and Final Four played one weekend and thw Final a different weekend. Most importantly and probably the biggest complaint, it can't drag on so long.

BTW, where was the game played, whats the capacity and what was the attendence like? Atmosphere?

Wow, you really did disengage didn't you? It was at Phillips Arena (Atlanta Hawks) which seats about 18,200. I believe Pat reported an attendance for the D-III game was about 6,700. From all accounts it was a good crowd that was into the game. The Georgia Tech pep band provided music and entertained.

I liked it (and so did Dan Wetzel), but the logistic hurdles are going to be big, if this is going to be a regular thing.

Logistics schmistics, this is worth doing.

Imagine if the final four was in the home state of one of the D3 schools, or even if one of the D1 final four teams shared a state with a D3 team.

That has already happened.     Calvin won D3 championship in 2000 the same year Michigan State won D1 championship.   

MSU at one time was a member of the MIAA.

[sac]

D1 Final Four Sites
2014---Cowboys Stadium, Dallas, TX
2015---Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, IN
2016---Reliant Stadium, Houston, TX

[ziggy]

D1 Final Four Sites
2014---Cowboys Stadium, Dallas, TX
2015---Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, IN
2016---Reliant Stadium, Houston, TX

A DIII Final Four at Hinkle Fieldhouse? Oh baby! Bankers Life Fieldhouse (Pacers) and IUPUI would be the downtown options. UIndy (DII) is south of downtown but not a good venue.

With all due respect to our national runner-up, a DIII Final Four in the state of Texas two out of three years isn't a great idea. However, Indianapolis would fabulous. Maybe a rotation between Salem and the DI Final Four based on location could be considered?

[AO]

D1 Final Four Sites
2014---Cowboys Stadium, Dallas, TX
2015---Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, IN
2016---Reliant Stadium, Houston, TX

A DIII Final Four at Hinkle Fieldhouse? Oh baby! Bankers Life Fieldhouse (Pacers) and IUPUI would be the downtown options. UIndy (DII) is south of downtown but not a good venue.

With all due respect to our national runner-up, a DIII Final Four in the state of Texas two out of three years isn't a great idea. However, Indianapolis would fabulous. Maybe a rotation between Salem and the DI Final Four based on location could be considered?

I wouldn't have guessed that Atlanta was a very good D3 location either. 

[sac]

The West Coast is way overdue for a Final Four, its been 18 years now and will be 22 by the 2017 final.  The NCAA has held every Final Four since 1997 in a dome, Phoenix is really the only West Coast location with a dome now.


Recent Final Four sites aren't exactly D3 friendly locations with Atlanta, New Orleans and Houston the last 3.  Combined with the 3 above that's one trip to the middle of 'D3 country' in 6 years.  The six years previous it was 3. 

[sac]

D1 Final Four Sites
2014---Cowboys Stadium, Dallas, TX
2015---Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, IN
2016---Reliant Stadium, Houston, TX

A DIII Final Four at Hinkle Fieldhouse? Oh baby! Bankers Life Fieldhouse (Pacers) and IUPUI would be the downtown options. UIndy (DII) is south of downtown but not a good venue.

With all due respect to our national runner-up, a DIII Final Four in the state of Texas two out of three years isn't a great idea. However, Indianapolis would fabulous. Maybe a rotation between Salem and the DI Final Four based on location could be considered?

I wouldn't have guessed that Atlanta was a very good D3 location either.

What can't be answered is how much of that crowd was there for the novelty of it and how much would return each year if the option were available.  How much of that crowd was there because Phillips Arena is right across the street and right in the middle of NCAA festivities?

[AO]

D1 Final Four Sites
2014---Cowboys Stadium, Dallas, TX
2015---Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, IN
2016---Reliant Stadium, Houston, TX

A DIII Final Four at Hinkle Fieldhouse? Oh baby! Bankers Life Fieldhouse (Pacers) and IUPUI would be the downtown options. UIndy (DII) is south of downtown but not a good venue.

With all due respect to our national runner-up, a DIII Final Four in the state of Texas two out of three years isn't a great idea. However, Indianapolis would fabulous. Maybe a rotation between Salem and the DI Final Four based on location could be considered?

I wouldn't have guessed that Atlanta was a very good D3 location either.

What can't be answered is how much of that crowd was there for the novelty of it and how much would return each year if the option were available.  How much of that crowd was there because Phillips Arena is right across the street and right in the middle of NCAA festivities?

how much of that crowd is going to travel to Salem?

The West Coast is way overdue for a Final Four, its been 18 years now and will be 22 by the 2017 final.  The NCAA has held every Final Four since 1997 in a dome, Phoenix is really the only West Coast location with a dome now.


Recent Final Four sites aren't exactly D3 friendly locations with Atlanta, New Orleans and Houston the last 3.  Combined with the 3 above that's one trip to the middle of 'D3 country' in 6 years.  The six years previous it was 3. 

the new Metrodome should be a strong contender to host sometime between 2017 and 2020.