2013 Division III NCAA Tournament

[ziggy]

D1 Final Four Sites
2014---Cowboys Stadium, Dallas, TX
2015---Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, IN
2016---Reliant Stadium, Houston, TX

A DIII Final Four at Hinkle Fieldhouse? Oh baby! Bankers Life Fieldhouse (Pacers) and IUPUI would be the downtown options. UIndy (DII) is south of downtown but not a good venue.

With all due respect to our national runner-up, a DIII Final Four in the state of Texas two out of three years isn't a great idea. However, Indianapolis would fabulous. Maybe a rotation between Salem and the DI Final Four based on location could be considered?

I wouldn't have guessed that Atlanta was a very good D3 location either.

What can't be answered is how much of that crowd was there for the novelty of it and how much would return each year if the option were available.  How much of that crowd was there because Phillips Arena is right across the street and right in the middle of NCAA festivities?

And the other factor is that if we're talking about the DIII Final Four potentially moving with the DI Final Four, it becomes more of a destination and travel for the fanbases should be considered. As a single game and possibly a one time event, that wasn't considered for this year.

[crufootball]

Just getting back in from Atlanta and the best way to describe the weekend is WOW.

Obviously I would have preferred a different result but I was beyond excited for our guys to get to play in that environment. Now I have never been to Salem so I have nothing to compare it too but to me our guys got to feel "big time" for a change and I wish more often other D3 players could get that type of spot light on them.

That being said I agree that things would have to be altered to make this a permanent switch but it is something that needs to be considered no matter the location. As a Texan, I think it would be great if 2 out of the next 3 years the D3 championship was in our backyards, perhaps it would help get more attention for all of D3 sports in the South since we normally are the ones that always have to get on a double digit hour bus ride or a plane to get the games.

P.S. My personal favorite feature might have to be the Mary Hardin Baylor and Amherst hot dogs they sold at one of the concession stands.

[sac]

What can't be answered is how much of that crowd was there for the novelty of it and how much would return each year if the option were available.  How much of that crowd was there because Phillips Arena is right across the street and right in the middle of NCAA festivities?

how much of that crowd is going to travel to Salem?

I guess all I'm asking is would people be as impressed with the turnout if only 4,000 showed up in Dallas or Houston?


....and for all I know they might get more in Dallas or Houston.

[ziggy]

What can't be answered is how much of that crowd was there for the novelty of it and how much would return each year if the option were available.  How much of that crowd was there because Phillips Arena is right across the street and right in the middle of NCAA festivities?

how much of that crowd is going to travel to Salem?

I guess all I'm asking is would people be as impressed with the turnout if only 4,000 showed up in Dallas or Houston?


....and for all I know they might get more in Dallas or Houston.

The best chance for success (as defined as a large crowd) is to make it easy on the people in town for the DI Final Four. This was accomplished in two important ways this weekend: free admission and the proximity of the two venues.

The NCAA could offer free admission no matter where the game is played but they have no control over where the buildings are within the host city. The fact that the Georgia Dome and Philips Arena are adjacent to one another likely played at least a small role in the overall attendance number.

I see Indianapolis and Houston as opportunities to replicate the experience, but Arlington is not set up as well. I know it was mentioned that UT-Arlington is only a couple miles away but even that distance is likely to keep some neutral butts out of the seats.

[madzillagd]

For me it's not so much about how many people show up for the actual game.  I think you are going to do better for a free game at the D1 tournament than you will at Salem most years in general, but I don't think that really is the point.  To me it's all about giving the players the best possible experience and I think being able to attend and be recognized during the Final Four is huge.  I encourage anybody that hasn't checked out the Amherst tumblr site to do so http://lordjeffs.tumblr.com/    There's a lot there that can't be duplicated in Salem. 

[Pat Coleman]

Given the success this had this year, I think we as Division III MUST figure out a way to make it happen again, a little more on our terms. Perhaps we can give a little and have a four-week tournament and a 20-week season, then push the start of the season back as well to line up better. Of course, women's basketball would have to move its season as well, because of the way conference play works.

However, I agree that there may be a novelty aspect to this, and it might not be the solution for the next 20 years, so I would say let's aim toward doing it in 2015 and 2016 as another two-year trial run and see how it does. I am sure it would do well in Indianapolis. But how about Houston?

I was very impressed with how many Amherst people came out. More Amherst fans in that building than in all their other Final Four trips combined. I would like us to try to do this again. I came in a cynic and came out convinced that we need to give it another try. If the two years works, then keep extending that deal until it no longer becomes a big deal.

[AO]

What can't be answered is how much of that crowd was there for the novelty of it and how much would return each year if the option were available.  How much of that crowd was there because Phillips Arena is right across the street and right in the middle of NCAA festivities?

how much of that crowd is going to travel to Salem?

I guess all I'm asking is would people be as impressed with the turnout if only 4,000 showed up in Dallas or Houston?


....and for all I know they might get more in Dallas or Houston.

last time they had the final four in Houston, most of the non-game festivities were right next to the NBA arena at the downtown convention center.  I would suspect this would be the case for most of the cities with domes outside of downtown.

[Just Bill]

I wonder if the NCAA would continue to commit the time and resources they did if it becomes a regular thing.  If it happens, after a few years I could imagine pretty soon the D-III championship experience getting trimmed and trimmed until it's not what it was this year.

[Pat Coleman]

I wonder if the NCAA would continue to commit the time and resources they did if it becomes a regular thing.  If it happens, after a few years I could imagine pretty soon the D-III championship experience getting trimmed and trimmed until it's not what it was this year.

I agree that's a possibility, which is why I would only advocate we extend the concept out for a couple years at a time.

[sac]

If given the option would the D3 Presidents/AD's give approval if the D3 tournament schedule couldn't change?  (In other words, still a drawn out 6 week thing)

[AndOne]

For me it's not so much about how many people show up for the actual game.  I think you are going to do better for a free game at the D1 tournament than you will at Salem most years in general, but I don't think that really is the point.  To me it's all about giving the players the best possible experience and I think being able to attend and be recognized during the Final Four is huge.  I encourage anybody that hasn't checked out the Amherst tumblr site to do so http://lordjeffs.tumblr.com/    There's a lot there that can't be duplicated in Salem.

Given the success this had this year, I think we as Division III MUST figure out a way to make it happen again, a little more on our terms. Perhaps we can give a little and have a four-week tournament and a 20-week season, then push the start of the season back as well to line up better. Of course, women's basketball would have to move its season as well, because of the way conference play works.

However, I agree that there may be a novelty aspect to this, and it might not be the solution for the next 20 years, so I would say let's aim toward doing it in 2015 and 2016 as another two-year trial run and see how it does. I am sure it would do well in Indianapolis. But how about Houston?

I was very impressed with how many Amherst people came out. More Amherst fans in that building than in all their other Final Four trips combined. I would like us to try to do this again. I came in a cynic and came out convinced that we need to give it another try. If the two years works, then keep extending that deal until it no longer becomes a big deal.

I wonder if the NCAA would continue to commit the time and resources they did if it becomes a regular thing.  If it happens, after a few years I could imagine pretty soon the D-III championship experience getting trimmed and trimmed until it's not what it was this year.

I agree that's a possibility, which is why I would only advocate we extend the concept out for a couple years at a time.

I'm responding in reverse order of the associated quotes..........

* No matter whether the NCAA would eventually "trim" the experience to some degree, we are getting ahead of ourselves in attempting to look that far into the future. Keeping the horse ahead of the cart would require that this year's experience needs to be duplicated as closely as possible as soon a possible which, of course, would be next year. Rather than worrying about what "trimming" might be done years done the road, what needs to be accomplished in the short term is how best to take advantage of, and capitalize on, this year's success next year.

* If I am not mistaken, Pat has historically been a pretty staunch proponent of the Salem experience. Has anyone been to Salem more often? For him to say "we as Division III MUST figure out a way to make it happen again" is a pretty strong endorsement of continuing this year's setup, even if only on a short term "trial" basis.

* As madzillagd indicated, the main thing is giving the players the best possible experience. Not only do I agree, but I think that part of providing the "best" experience for the players involves making it as easy and pleasurable for the player's families, friends, and fans to be part of the experience in being there to support and cheer on the players, while at the same time having options available for them during times other than when the games are actually taking place.

I was fortunate enough to be present for the Elite Eight in Salem this year, and wouldn't have missed it. The Salem/Roanoke area is nice, and the people, both around town and at the arena were very hospitable. However, there were certainly some drawbacks:

* Due to the limited number of airlines/flights going into Roanoke, tickets are very expensive. A ticket from Chicago to Atlanta is only about 38% of a ticket to Salem. Hotel rooms might well be more expensive in any big city, but with the savings on air fare, you have a lot of room to work with. And, if I would have gone to Atlanta, a rental car wouldn't have been necessary.

* Not a whole lot to do in Salem all day Sat. Considered visiting Appomattox, but that was about a 3 1/2 hour round trip drive, not including time spent at the site. The downtown of almost any big city would certainly provide a bundle of worthwhile things to do during "down time" between games.

* Yikes! Salem is in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. 58 degrees and sunny on Sat, then 6 inches of snow on Sun with the airport closed and all flights cancelled from about noon Sun to 10:00 Mon morning. Probably a rare occurance at this time of year, but thats not gonna happen in Atlanta, Dallas, or Houston.     

[madzillagd]

CONF	TEAMS	CON TOT
NESCAC	3	10-2

5-0
3-1
3-1

[gordonmann]

If you're showing the tournament results by conferences, you have a couple mistakes. The GNAC went 0-1 with Albertus Magnus losing in the first round. The MACC went 1-1 with Alvernia beating Albertus Magnus in the first round and then losing to St. Mary's.

[Greek Tragedy]

If you're showing the tournament results by conferences, you have a couple mistakes. The GNAC went 0-1 with Albertus Magnus losing in the first round. The MACC went 1-1 with Alvernia beating Albertus Magnus in the first round and then losing to St. Mary's.

I will work on it, my math skills and memory are a little off...Sorry.

[Greek Tragedy]

CONF	TEAMS	CON TOT
NESCAC	3	10-2

5-0
3-1
3-1

I was working on it before the final, forgot to adjust accordingly...