Directors Cup

[Bombers798891]

I would rather see us include every sport, and just divide the schools into different groups based on the size of the athletic department. If we're adjusting point totals for participant ratio, why shouldn't we take into account every sport? That way, we get a clearer picture of each school's entire department, but still separate a school that offers 25-30 sports from one that offers 12

We'd be subdividing Division III ...

I think the athletic departments naturally subdivide themselves, we're just allowing for that and not directly comparing one school to another that has an athletic department twice the size, or penalizing schools that have depth in but lack elite teams by removing numerous quality teams from the equation. I think there's a lot of value in recognizing the schools that manage to have lots of competitive teams and not just the ones that are outstanding in a few sports, but non-competitive in others. But hey, no methodology is perfect, and it takes different strokes to move the world. I'm excited to see what Ypsi comes up with regardless, because I think it will be an improvement over the current system.

[NCF]

IF I can find the relevant data, I'm leaning towards 100 (and participation number for denominator of ratio) = highest participation number of sport for each gender.  (My gut hunch is that that will turn out to be either basketball or soccer for both genders.)  I plan to do each gender separately (and report for each gender) then simply add the totals for the overall title.

Commentary on whether to do the top 7 for each gender, then the two other best scores, or whether to just do all sports and count on the PR sufficiently reducing the advantage of the 'rich' schools?  [Even with the PR, I'm concerned that schools that can afford to go 'oops' for 7-8 sports per gender have too much advantage over schools that just can't afford more than the bare minimum.]

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Looking forward to the "Ypsi Cup" wimmer.

[y_jack_lok]

This is a fascinating idea -- sort of a D3sports.com recognition with a different methodology from that used by the Directors Cup people. What about having separate awards for men's sports and women's sports, instead of a combined award? Women don't play football or have wrestling (or do they?), men don't play field hockey -- perhaps there are some other sports that are gender specific that I don't know about. I know some schools have an equestrian program, for example. Does that include both genders?

Just tossing out some thoughts.

[NCF]

This is a fascinating idea -- sort of a D3sports.com recognition with a different methodology from that used by the Directors Cup people. What about having separate awards for men's sports and women's sports, instead of a combined award? Women don't play football or have wrestling (or do they?), men don't play field hockey -- perhaps there are some other sports that are gender specific that I don't know about. I know some schools have an equestrian program, for example. Does that include both genders?

Just tossing out some thoughts.

Actually, this is a great idea. It is already done with cc, indoor and outdoor track. The men's award is the Al B. Carius award, forgot what they call the women's.  In some high school's girls wreslte on the boy's team, but not sure if any college sponsors a women's team.

[Ralph Turner]

The average number of men's sports offered in D-III is 8.2; women's is 8.9.

There is a justification for including 9 sports.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm having more trouble getting started than I had anticipated.  I've located the school-by-school, sport-by-sport DC numbers for spring sports, but (aside from articles listing some of the top finishing schools) cannot find anything for fall or winter.  Also, getting precise participation numbers is proving harder than expected.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[NCF]

I'm having more trouble getting started than I had anticipated.  I've located the school-by-school, sport-by-sport DC numbers for spring sports, but (aside from articles listing some of the top finishing schools) cannot find anything for fall or winter.  Also, getting precise participation numbers is proving harder than expected.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm useless-I have no internet at home. If I get to the library tomorrow, I'll try to find some information for you.

[Knightstalker]

How about this, if a conference does not participate in all the NCAA championships for the sports that they sponsor they are ineligible for the Directors Cup.  Not that it really matters because the Directors cup is a meaningless paper championship that really has not impact on the real world.  Just my stupid opinion of course.

[Ralph Turner]

Under the old format at ncaa.org, there was a page on which the numbers of participants in each sport was listed.

I cannot find that page.

I will try later on today.

[Gregory Sager]

I've been using this pdf file from the NCAA website for the Directors' cup discussion on CCIW Chat, but it only goes up to 2010-11.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I've been using this pdf file from the NCAA website for the Directors' cup discussion on CCIW Chat, but it only goes up to 2010-11.

Thanks Greg, I'll use those numbers if no one comes up with 2011-2012.

My other labor-saving request would be DC school-by-school and sport-by sport results for fall and winter - I found spring, but can only find school totals for the other seasons.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Using the above 2010-2011 tallies (if anyone knows of a sport where 2011-2012 would be significantly different, let me know and I'll adjust, but these should be very close), here are the Participation Ratios I calculated:  (NOTE: for the denominator, I used the basketball totals, which were highest for each gender - thus they are 1.000; others are participating schools divided by 435 [women] or 412 [men].  Also note, I omitted sports with fewer than 40 schools; the PR would be too tiny to matter much for at least any of the top schools.)

WOMEN'S SPORTS:  basketball 1.000,  soccer .982,  volleyball .979,  cross country .943,  softball .936,  tennis .867,  outdoor track .639  swimming/diving .559,  indoor track .545,  lax .474,  golf .384,  field hockey .366,  ice hockey .113,  rowing .092.

MEN'S SPORTS:  basketball 1.000,  soccer .978,  cross country .942,  baseball .908,  tennis .794,  golf .711,  outdoor track .663,  indoor track .561,  football .553 (NOTE: since scoring for the DC is by national tourney placement, I subtracted the 10 NESCAC schools from the numerator),  swimming/diving .498,  wrestling .214,  ice hockey .172, volleyball .136.

I can quite easily calculate the spring sports, but unless someone can point me to the fall and winter sports' DC scores, fall and winter will be a total pain!  (Rather than reinvent the wheel for relative scoring, I plan to simply use the DC points times the PR.)

[Ralph Turner]

I've been using this pdf file from the NCAA website for the Directors' cup discussion on CCIW Chat, but it only goes up to 2010-11.

Thanks Greg, I'll use those numbers if no one comes up with 2011-2012.

My other labor-saving request would be DC school-by-school and sport-by sport results for fall and winter - I found spring, but can only find school totals for the other seasons.

Let's try this...

http://www.nacda.com/directorscup/nacda-directorscup-current-scoring.html

[Mr. Ypsi]

I've been using this pdf file from the NCAA website for the Directors' cup discussion on CCIW Chat, but it only goes up to 2010-11.

Thanks Greg, I'll use those numbers if no one comes up with 2011-2012.

My other labor-saving request would be DC school-by-school and sport-by sport results for fall and winter - I found spring, but can only find school totals for the other seasons.

Let's try this...

http://www.nacda.com/directorscup/nacda-directorscup-current-scoring.html

Yeah, that is where I'm finding the spring sports' breakdown (and the school totals for fall and winter), but I can't get it to show the sport-by-sport for fall and winter (except for the leaders and the champions).  Am I missing something?

[Just Bill]

Click "Final Fall Standings" and "Final Winter Standings" to see sport by sport breakdown for each season.