Top 25 Discussion

[Hammer Ball]

I clearly do not understand the ranking system and the numbers that go into the decision making.  As an example: Salisbury is 13 - 2 and has a 116.2 ISR (31st) and a 115 SOS and is ranked #1.  Cal Lu is 13 - 5 and has a 138.6 ISR (1st) and a 2 SOS but is not in the top 25.  There are many on this board much more experienced than me, hopefully one or more of you can explain how this makes sense and stop my uninformed ramblings.

[Hammer Ball]

Another question for the board veterans:  Who are the 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country that vote for the D3baseball.com Top 25?  Are their identities and votes made public? Or are they protected as if they are members of Seal Team 6?  It would be interesting to know the geographical spread of the voters and which voters have seen which teams play. 

[Ralph Turner]

Another question for the board veterans:  Who are the 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country that vote for the D3baseball.com Top 25?  Are their identities and votes made public? Or are they protected as if they are members of Seal Team 6?  It would be interesting to know the geographical spread of the voters and which voters have seen which teams play.

The general outline for D3sports.com is to have 3 representatives from each of the 8 regions plus the head kahuna to give 25.

I believe that in football there are 6 representatives from the 4 regions plus the head kahuna to give 25.

I have never seen a public disclosure of the panels.

I have participated in the Men's Hoops Fan Poll and the South Region Football poll.  The ballots end up looking alike for the most part.

[Ralph Turner]

Another question for the board veterans:  Who are the 25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country that vote for the D3baseball.com Top 25?  Are their identities and votes made public? Or are they protected as if they are members of Seal Team 6?  It would be interesting to know the geographical spread of the voters and which voters have seen which teams play.

The general outline for D3sports.com is to have 3 representatives from each of the 8 regions plus the head kahuna to give 25.

I believe that in football there are 6 representatives from the 4 regions plus the head kahuna to give 25.

I have never seen a public disclosure of the panels.

I have participated in the Men's Hoops Fan Poll and the South Region Football fan poll.  The ballots end up looking alike for the most part by the time that you start looking at the scores and teams.

[CrashDavisD3]

http://d3baseball.com/top25/2013/2013week-4

7 loss teams do not belong in Top 25. Same team lost 4 games in a row.

How does Pomona-Pitzer get more votes than Cal Lutheran.

Not sure Trinity Texas is a #2 yet.

[Jack Parkman]

I really don't have a whole lot to say about the poll since I really only follow the West but a few things stand out to me...

1. Birmingham Southern really had a terrible week and lost 4 in a row but didn't move???
2. Oxy getting votes after a 2-3 week, which included getting swept in regional games.
3. Trinity moving up 5 spots while going 4-0 with a great win over TLU and 3 over an average Dallas team.
4. Pomona still getting more votes than Cal Lu.  Cal Lu took 2 of 3 from them already and is better in the SCIAC so far as well as the region.
5. Whitworth not receiving a single vote surprises me. 

My biggest question is whether or not people (voters) look at the SOS tab on the front page?  I fully understand that many teams are just getting their seasons started but those get updated all the time. 

[Mike Falk]

The first ABCA/Collegiate Baseball poll of the 2013 season was released today.

http://www.muhlenberg.edu/sports/abcapoll.html

The poll has an expanded panel this season and will be released every Tuesday morning from now through the end of the season.

[doodlesdad]

Kind of amusing how the voters know about the SCIAC, which has certainly held its own nationally over the years (two titles, three seconds among Cal Lutheran, Chapman and La Verne since 1992). While I'm not sure either team is a Top 25 yet, the fact that Pomona-Pitzer (10-5, 15-5) is just outside the Top 25 with 52 points while Cal Lutheran is down the line with 18 (9-3, 13-5-1) tell me no one is paying much attention. The Kingsmen hammered the Sagehens in two of three meetings and is 9-3 against the conference, taking at least two of three each time, without yet facing either of the dogs (Claremont-Mudd-Scripps and Caltech). Pomona-Pitzer is 5-0 nonconference against teams with a cumulative 21-23-1 record and Cal Lutheran is 3-21 against clubs with a 34-18-1 cumulative mark. Things to think about. (Just saw the ABCA poll: Cal Lutheran 11, Pomona-Pitzer 18 makes more sense.)

[Spence]

I clearly do not understand the ranking system and the numbers that go into the decision making.  As an example: Salisbury is 13 - 2 and has a 116.2 ISR (31st) and a 115 SOS and is ranked #1.  Cal Lu is 13 - 5 and has a 138.6 ISR (1st) and a 2 SOS but is not in the top 25.  There are many on this board much more experienced than me, hopefully one or more of you can explain how this makes sense and stop my uninformed ramblings.

Very obviously people don't look at the ISR much. But, and you may believe this or not but it's obvious, the ISR SOS formula favors the West Region. As I've said, it could be because of the games they play against D-II and NAIA, I don't know but it would make sense. But if the West was as dominant as the ISRs make it look, they would win it every year. And they don't.

As far as the poll goes, IMO people look too much at won-lost record (and to some extent just wins) and reputation alone, without regard for who you've played, who you've beaten and where. That's how you get Salisbury, CNU and Trinity so high. Salisbury and CNU have been regional championship before...I don't really understand how Trinity got to be so favored given that they have never won a regional...I guess just because you see their high win totals early in the season every year. But strength of schedule certainly seems to be underweighted by the polls, and not just this one.

I was glad to see Huntingdon in the ABCA poll and really surprised to see how few votes they got in the D3baseball one.

[Spence]

Kind of amusing how the voters know about the SCIAC, which has certainly held its own nationally over the years (two titles, three seconds among Cal Lutheran, Chapman and La Verne since 1992). While I'm not sure either team is a Top 25 yet, the fact that Pomona-Pitzer (10-5, 15-5) is just outside the Top 25 with 52 points while Cal Lutheran is down the line with 18 (9-3, 13-5-1) tell me no one is paying much attention. The Kingsmen hammered the Sagehens in two of three meetings and is 9-3 against the conference, taking at least two of three each time, without yet facing either of the dogs (Claremont-Mudd-Scripps and Caltech). Pomona-Pitzer is 5-0 nonconference against teams with a cumulative 21-23-1 record and Cal Lutheran is 3-21 against clubs with a 34-18-1 cumulative mark. Things to think about. (Just saw the ABCA poll: Cal Lutheran 11, Pomona-Pitzer 18 makes more sense.)

Watch Cal Lu move up in the rankings now because they beat some oil cans and the ABCA ranked them. It would be a real surprise if Cal Lu lost more than 1 game in their next 2 conference series. In a few weeks those of us ranking them now will just have been ahead of the curve.

[Ralph Turner]

I really don't have a whole lot to say about the poll since I really only follow the West but a few things stand out to me...

1. Birmingham Southern really had a terrible week and lost 4 in a row but didn't move???

The losses to Adrian and to Ill.Wesleyan may be to teams that will be regionally ranked. Adrian is an in-region game.  How strong is Huntingdon?  That was a good pair of wins for the Hawks.  


2. Oxy getting votes after a 2-3 week, which included getting swept in regional games. But they got some love for the wins over Bridgewater Va and Ithaca.  You are right. Being swept by Cal Lu is big.

3. Trinity moving up 5 spots while going 4-0 with a great win over TLU and 3 over an average Dallas team.

I think that it was Big Poppa who said that this was a hard week for him to vote.  Everyone above Trinity had a sub-optimal week.  They must have "floated up", and not rose to those heights by their outstanding effort.

4. Pomona still getting more votes than Cal Lu.  Cal Lu took 2 of 3 from them already and is better in the SCIAC so far as well as the region.

Yeah, go figure.  Cal Lu won the George Fox series, too.

5. Whitworth not receiving a single vote surprises me.

(But why do you give votes to a team that has a 9-6-1 record against West Region teams and 9-8-1 overall?)

My biggest question is whether or not people (voters) look at the SOS tab on the front page?  I fully understand that many teams are just getting their seasons started but those get updated all the time.

And my question about SOS at this time of the year, is that not every team is in late season form when comparing across the regions.  That is a problem for me some times.  I am glad that they play 40 game schedules to level some of that out.

Thanks for the comments.

[OshDude]

I got some ribbing for my placement of CNU on this week's ballot. You can see my votes in tomorrow's Around the Nation column.

[rob]

Kind of amusing how the voters know about the SCIAC, which has certainly held its own nationally over the years (two titles, three seconds among Cal Lutheran, Chapman and La Verne since 1992). While I'm not sure either team is a Top 25 yet, the fact that Pomona-Pitzer (10-5, 15-5) is just outside the Top 25 with 52 points while Cal Lutheran is down the line with 18 (9-3, 13-5-1) tell me no one is paying much attention. The Kingsmen hammered the Sagehens in two of three meetings and is 9-3 against the conference, taking at least two of three each time, without yet facing either of the dogs (Claremont-Mudd-Scripps and Caltech). Pomona-Pitzer is 5-0 nonconference against teams with a cumulative 21-23-1 record and Cal Lutheran is 3-21 against clubs with a 34-18-1 cumulative mark. Things to think about. (Just saw the ABCA poll: Cal Lutheran 11, Pomona-Pitzer 18 makes more sense.)

It seems the two polls are not very dissimilar.  Many of the same teams, although rankings are slightly different especially in the top 15 or so.

[Jack Parkman]

I really don't have a whole lot to say about the poll since I really only follow the West but a few things stand out to me...

1. Birmingham Southern really had a terrible week and lost 4 in a row but didn't move???

The losses to Adrian and to Ill.Wesleyan may be to teams that will be regionally ranked. Adrian is an in-region game.  How strong is Huntingdon?  That was a good pair of wins for the Hawks.  


2. Oxy getting votes after a 2-3 week, which included getting swept in regional games. But they got some love for the wins over Bridgewater Va and Ithaca.  You are right. Being swept by Cal Lu is big.

3. Trinity moving up 5 spots while going 4-0 with a great win over TLU and 3 over an average Dallas team.

I think that it was Big Poppa who said that this was a hard week for him to vote.  Everyone above Trinity had a sub-optimal week.  They must have "floated up", and not rose to those heights by their outstanding effort.

4. Pomona still getting more votes than Cal Lu.  Cal Lu took 2 of 3 from them already and is better in the SCIAC so far as well as the region.

Yeah, go figure.  Cal Lu won the George Fox series, too.

5. Whitworth not receiving a single vote surprises me.

(But why do you give votes to a team that has a 9-6-1 record against West Region teams and 9-8-1 overall?)

My biggest question is whether or not people (voters) look at the SOS tab on the front page?  I fully understand that many teams are just getting their seasons started but those get updated all the time.

And my question about SOS at this time of the year, is that not every team is in late season form when comparing across the regions.  That is a problem for me some times.  I am glad that they play 40 game schedules to level some of that out.

Thanks for the comments.

Very valid points, Ralph.  Some things I didn't really think of.

[CrashDavisD3]

 ABCA/Collegiate Baseball poll. More love to the SCIAC in this poll. Also seems more teams in the West made it in this poll.

Polls are fun...Allows us to argue why and why not. As always everyone has an opinion which you may or may not agree with...

Better than just having computers pop out the numbers.

Of course the only poll that counts is the last game of the year...From that you know who is number 1 and 2...and then the rest is just one big educated guess. May madness coming soon