Top 25 Discussion

[CrashDavisD3]

I am missing the reason behind the ranking given St. Joe's(ME) in both polls.  Seems very high to me.
They do not have enough games to be given a SOS on boyds but their in-region SOS on D3baseball for 7 of their 9 games is 313!  Is that right? They swept a 2-12 Rhode Island and 4-5 Ripon and beat a 4 loss Wheaton(MA) and 5-9 Keene St.  Worst yet, they lost to a 3-6 UMass-Boston.

That 4-loss Wheaton took home a piece of wood last year from Appleton. UMass-Boston and Keene State are respected programs as well. Keene State has a lot of losses but they also beat Bowdoin and Western New England. St. Joe's also beat UMass-Boston and their other loss is to Webster who was also in Appleton last year.

If you extrapolated their record to teams that have played more games that would be 14-4 or 21-6 against mostly pretty good programs. It would surprise me if St. Joe's finishes with less than 28 wins, and they could end up with many more.

But at least they actually beat those 2-12 type teams they played. We've got a team in the top 5 that lost to a 2-10 team.

I guess the issue remains is the poll vote should reflect where there are now,  not where they might be in 4 weeks. Not what their opponents did last year but what they have done this year. In 4 weeks that is a different poll. Time will sort things out if they truly belong where they are IMO but too much future predictions with polls IMO instead of the present.

I have seen respected powerhouse programs go to 20 loss seasons and miss the playoffs. Also 20 loss teams have won National Championships also.

[Mr. Ypsi]

thanks for the clarification. Can you tell me how to determine if a team is in region? Seems crazy a team that is 1100 miles away is in region

San Antonio to Spokane ~2,000 miles. In region. It is the Wild Wild West!

...and a little East depending on your perspective.

i get that, they are both in the same region, the West.  I dont think Rockford from Illinois who participates in the Northern Athletic Conference which is part of the Midwest Evaluation Region and is 1193 miles from Trinity would count as an In Region game.  Unless I misread Ricky's post, he is saying they are in-region.

Illinois and Texas are both in the same NCAA administrative region.  See the FAQ on the home page for a full description of 'what is an-in-region game'.  In short:

1.  same conference = in region
2.  within 200 miles = in region
3.  same sports region = in region (obviously!)
4.  same NCAA administrative region = in region

Beginning next year (all sports?) all games against d3 teams are in region as long as you play at least 70% of games against teams that are in region by the current standards.

[Spence]

I am missing the reason behind the ranking given St. Joe's(ME) in both polls.  Seems very high to me.
They do not have enough games to be given a SOS on boyds but their in-region SOS on D3baseball for 7 of their 9 games is 313!  Is that right? They swept a 2-12 Rhode Island and 4-5 Ripon and beat a 4 loss Wheaton(MA) and 5-9 Keene St.  Worst yet, they lost to a 3-6 UMass-Boston.

That 4-loss Wheaton took home a piece of wood last year from Appleton. UMass-Boston and Keene State are respected programs as well. Keene State has a lot of losses but they also beat Bowdoin and Western New England. St. Joe's also beat UMass-Boston and their other loss is to Webster who was also in Appleton last year.

If you extrapolated their record to teams that have played more games that would be 14-4 or 21-6 against mostly pretty good programs. It would surprise me if St. Joe's finishes with less than 28 wins, and they could end up with many more.

But at least they actually beat those 2-12 type teams they played. We've got a team in the top 5 that lost to a 2-10 team.

I guess the issue remains is the poll vote should reflect where there are now,  not where they might be in 4 weeks.

Right now they're 7-2 having played several quality opponents, including a win over last year's runner ups.

But by all means continue to have a 23-5 team that's played a trash schedule and just lost to a 2-10 team ranked second in your personal regional rankings and top 5 in the country by the voters.

And then later we can all look surprised when they flame out in the regional like they do every year.

Is CUA a quality opponent for Trinity today? They're 14-14.

And people wonder why I get upset at folks on this board. Even on the national board people are so territorial.

[Just_Some_Guy]

I am missing the reason behind the ranking given St. Joe's(ME) in both polls.  Seems very high to me.
They do not have enough games to be given a SOS on boyds but their in-region SOS on D3baseball for 7 of their 9 games is 313!  Is that right? They swept a 2-12 Rhode Island and 4-5 Ripon and beat a 4 loss Wheaton(MA) and 5-9 Keene St.  Worst yet, they lost to a 3-6 UMass-Boston.

That 4-loss Wheaton took home a piece of wood last year from Appleton. UMass-Boston and Keene State are respected programs as well. Keene State has a lot of losses but they also beat Bowdoin and Western New England. St. Joe's also beat UMass-Boston and their other loss is to Webster who was also in Appleton last year.

If you extrapolated their record to teams that have played more games that would be 14-4 or 21-6 against mostly pretty good programs. It would surprise me if St. Joe's finishes with less than 28 wins, and they could end up with many more.

But at least they actually beat those 2-12 type teams they played. We've got a team in the top 5 that lost to a 2-10 team.

I guess the issue remains is the poll vote should reflect where there are now,  not where they might be in 4 weeks.

Right now they're 7-2 having played several quality opponents, including a win over last year's runner ups.

But by all means continue to have a 23-5 team that's played a trash schedule and just lost to a 2-10 team ranked second in your personal regional rankings and top 5 in the country by the voters.

And then later we can all look surprised when they flame out in the regional like they do every year.

Is CUA a quality opponent for Trinity today? They're 14-14.

And people wonder why I get upset at folks on this board. Even on the national board people are so territorial.

The bolded above is why I mostly agree with Spence.

I primarily follow the west region and I don't stake too much stock in polls aside from the fact that they're fun to evaluate and can lead to good discussion about the merits of a team's body of work.

If it was all about where they are now then the first couple weeks of polls would strongly favor the west merely because they're easy to evaluate because they've played more games. I think it's illogical to argue so strenuously for these west teams, yet still advocate for early season polling. Either you wait to poll or you let voters extrapolate and project a bit based on their knowledge: including how they looked in their first few games, but also what teams did in the past, how they ordinarily fare and what players returned. There's certainly exceptions to *every* rule.

I'd have Trinity as my #2 in the west right now, but I'm not as bullish nationally as many of the other west homers are (and the current voters seem to be), but I also don't put as much stock into dropping one game in a 4-game series to a 2-10 team that had a good outing by a kid who's started the year off in decent fashion on the bump.

Also, as much as my fellow West peeps don't want to admit it, we're never going to get respect nation-wide until someone besides Chapman makes a deep run at a regional. And, personally, I think that's fair.

JSG

[OshDude]

thanks for the clarification. Can you tell me how to determine if a team is in region? Seems crazy a team that is 1100 miles away is in region

San Antonio to Spokane ~2,000 miles. In region. It is the Wild Wild West!

...and a little East depending on your perspective.

i get that, they are both in the same region, the West.  I dont think Rockford from Illinois who participates in the Northern Athletic Conference which is part of the Midwest Evaluation Region and is 1193 miles from Trinity would count as an In Region game.  Unless I misread Ricky's post, he is saying they are in-region.

Illinois and Texas are both in the same NCAA administrative region.  See the FAQ on the home page for a full description of 'what is an-in-region game'.  In short:

1.  same conference = in region
2.  within 200 miles = in region
3.  same sports region = in region (obviously!)
4.  same NCAA administrative region = in region

Beginning next year (all sports?) all games against d3 teams are in region as long as you play at least 70% of games against teams that are in region by the current standards.

Seconded. I encourage everyone to view the FAQ for any refreshers.

[Spence]

I'd have Trinity as my #2 in the west right now, but I'm not as bullish nationally as many of the other west homers are (and the current voters seem to be), but I also don't put as much stock into dropping one game in a 4-game series to a 2-10 team that had a good outing by a kid who's started the year off in decent fashion on the bump.

Also, as much as my fellow West peeps don't want to admit it, we're never going to get respect nation-wide until someone besides Chapman makes a deep run at a regional. And, personally, I think that's fair.

JSG

Well there's been George Fox, who actually won it all, and Linfield made a respectable showing in Appleton. CUA has been there as well. So I wouldn't say that no one besides Chapman has shown anything. I don't think it's too much different than how Marietta has dominated the Mideast...other programs have made the series and shown well, but no one else has won a championship.

I just want to see the programs that make an effort and play a reasonably challenging schedule to be given credit for that. I don't know where you're supposed to rank Trinity right now because I just don't know how you're supposed to know anything about them. It's about like UW-Oshkosh or Otterbein right now...only 28 games into the season. I've got Otterbein something like 6th in the Mideast right now and that won't change until they play someone good. I imagine Midwest region observers have a similar "I'm from Missouri" attitude about Oshkosh. Hard to see them any higher than 5th.

[tigerfan_2001]

thanks for the clarification. Can you tell me how to determine if a team is in region? Seems crazy a team that is 1100 miles away is in region

San Antonio to Spokane ~2,000 miles. In region. It is the Wild Wild West!

...and a little East depending on your perspective.

i get that, they are both in the same region, the West.  I dont think Rockford from Illinois who participates in the Northern Athletic Conference which is part of the Midwest Evaluation Region and is 1193 miles from Trinity would count as an In Region game.  Unless I misread Ricky's post, he is saying they are in-region.

Illinois and Texas are both in the same NCAA administrative region.  See the FAQ on the home page for a full description of 'what is an-in-region game'.  In short:

1.  same conference = in region
2.  within 200 miles = in region
3.  same sports region = in region (obviously!)
4.  same NCAA administrative region = in region

Beginning next year (all sports?) all games against d3 teams are in region as long as you play at least 70% of games against teams that are in region by the current standards.

Seconded. I encourage everyone to view the FAQ for any refreshers.

wow.  Thanks for that.  Hope Rockford has another winning record then, since they count. 

[CrashDavisD3]

The West has a long history of teams as Champions or Runnerups in DIII Baseball.

http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/all-time

[108 Stitches]

Well there's been George Fox, who actually won it all, and Linfield made a respectable showing in Appleton. CUA has been there as well. So I wouldn't say that no one besides Chapman has shown anything. I don't think it's too much different than how Marietta has dominated the Mideast...other programs have made the series and shown well, but no one else has won a championship.

I just want to see the programs that make an effort and play a reasonably challenging schedule to be given credit for that. I don't know where you're supposed to rank Trinity right now because I just don't know how you're supposed to know anything about them. It's about like UW-Oshkosh or Otterbein right now...only 28 games into the season. I've got Otterbein something like 6th in the Mideast right now and that won't change until they play someone good. I imagine Midwest region observers have a similar "I'm from Missouri" attitude about Oshkosh. Hard to see them any higher than 5th.

Trinity has historically played a challenging schedule, but this year the stars aligned and has made it weaker. This is not their fault. Geographically they have limitations, but they do a home/away every year with Chapman who is historically one of the top teams in the country.

As far as knowing about the team, last year it was one game short of going to Appleton, they lost their number two pitcher late in the year which most feel if he was healthy they would have had the arms to get though. This year they only lost two key players (Number 1 pitcher, and number 3 hole hitter) You keep pointing out they lost to a 2-10 team and as others have posted they got beat by a good pitcher in a 4 game series that they otherwise completely dominated. It happens.

So for this year, the rest of the squad is back with some strong freshmen contributing, along with the expected growth of the rest of the team. They have a much improved offense, with one of the top offensive players in DIII ball. Their pitching is significantly deeper, with a dominant number one, (not quite as dominant as last year) but they have 2-5 pitchers with a strong bull pen and two late inning closer types. (actually maybe three now) They are not as good defensively this year, which is perplexing given the same guys are back, but it is what it is.

So from a "potential" standpoint and performance against the top teams they have played they are playing like a top ten team nationally, which is why they are ranked where they are. Are they a number 1 or 2 team in the country? Not IMO, but they are certainly a top 10 team and probably the second best team in the West. They will continue to develop and lets see what happens in 6 weeks.

While they have not broken through to Appleton they are always very competitive and there a certainly a lot of DIII teams that wish they had their success.

[Spence]

Well there's been George Fox, who actually won it all, and Linfield made a respectable showing in Appleton. CUA has been there as well. So I wouldn't say that no one besides Chapman has shown anything. I don't think it's too much different than how Marietta has dominated the Mideast...other programs have made the series and shown well, but no one else has won a championship.

I just want to see the programs that make an effort and play a reasonably challenging schedule to be given credit for that. I don't know where you're supposed to rank Trinity right now because I just don't know how you're supposed to know anything about them. It's about like UW-Oshkosh or Otterbein right now...only 28 games into the season. I've got Otterbein something like 6th in the Mideast right now and that won't change until they play someone good. I imagine Midwest region observers have a similar "I'm from Missouri" attitude about Oshkosh. Hard to see them any higher than 5th.

Trinity has historically played a challenging schedule, but this year the stars aligned and has made it weaker. This is not their fault. Geographically they have limitations, but they do a home/away every year with Chapman who is historically one of the top teams in the country.

As far as knowing about the team, last year it was one game short of going to Appleton, they lost their number two pitcher late in the year which most feel if he was healthy they would have had the arms to get though. This year they only lost two key players (Number 1 pitcher, and number 3 hole hitter) You keep pointing out they lost to a 2-10 team and as others have posted they got beat by a good pitcher in a 4 game series that they otherwise completely dominated. It happens.

So for this year, the rest of the squad is back with some strong freshmen contributing, along with the expected growth of the rest of the team. They have a much improved offense, with one of the top offensive players in DIII ball. Their pitching is significantly deeper, with a dominant number one, (not quite as dominant as last year) but they have 2-5 pitchers with a strong bull pen and two late inning closer types. (actually maybe three now) They are not as good defensively this year, which is perplexing given the same guys are back, but it is what it is.

So from a "potential" standpoint and performance against the top teams they have played they are playing like a top ten team nationally, which is why they are ranked where they are. Are they a number 1 or 2 team in the country? Not IMO, but they are certainly a top 10 team and probably the second best team in the West. They will continue to develop and lets see what happens in 6 weeks.

While they have not broken through to Appleton they are always very competitive and there a certainly a lot of DIII teams that wish they had their success.

Trinity has never played (or perhaps I should say rarely in case there was a time I don't remember) what I would call a strong schedule. I can remember making this critique in the past and being criticized for it but it hasn't burned me yet.

This year is even worse. Why isn't Trinity playing Tyler? Why did they play 4 games against Rockford? They also could have played more games on their road trip west like some of the New Jersey and New York teams do. Get a few teams together and meet somewhere and play some games. I'm not too convinced that Trinity is playing the toughest schedule it could, even considering the circumstances. La Roche played at Marietta today on one day's notice. John Carroll played a few games in Beckley, W.Va. to try to get games in. Some teams play at 2 a.m. in the Metrodome. Huntingdon and Montclair went to Ohio to play 3 games. You do what you have to do. It's only going to be more important next year when every game counts the same for NCAA criteria.

As for what Trinity had last year, one might see that as a reason to doubt them this year. How often does a team that didn't win their region lose a first-team All-American pitcher that was draft quality and win their regional for the first time ever in the next year?

[tigerfan_2001]

Well there's been George Fox, who actually won it all, and Linfield made a respectable showing in Appleton. CUA has been there as well. So I wouldn't say that no one besides Chapman has shown anything. I don't think it's too much different than how Marietta has dominated the Mideast...other programs have made the series and shown well, but no one else has won a championship.

I just want to see the programs that make an effort and play a reasonably challenging schedule to be given credit for that. I don't know where you're supposed to rank Trinity right now because I just don't know how you're supposed to know anything about them. It's about like UW-Oshkosh or Otterbein right now...only 28 games into the season. I've got Otterbein something like 6th in the Mideast right now and that won't change until they play someone good. I imagine Midwest region observers have a similar "I'm from Missouri" attitude about Oshkosh. Hard to see them any higher than 5th.

Trinity has historically played a challenging schedule, but this year the stars aligned and has made it weaker. This is not their fault. Geographically they have limitations, but they do a home/away every year with Chapman who is historically one of the top teams in the country.

As far as knowing about the team, last year it was one game short of going to Appleton, they lost their number two pitcher late in the year which most feel if he was healthy they would have had the arms to get though. This year they only lost two key players (Number 1 pitcher, and number 3 hole hitter) You keep pointing out they lost to a 2-10 team and as others have posted they got beat by a good pitcher in a 4 game series that they otherwise completely dominated. It happens.

So for this year, the rest of the squad is back with some strong freshmen contributing, along with the expected growth of the rest of the team. They have a much improved offense, with one of the top offensive players in DIII ball. Their pitching is significantly deeper, with a dominant number one, (not quite as dominant as last year) but they have 2-5 pitchers with a strong bull pen and two late inning closer types. (actually maybe three now) They are not as good defensively this year, which is perplexing given the same guys are back, but it is what it is.

So from a "potential" standpoint and performance against the top teams they have played they are playing like a top ten team nationally, which is why they are ranked where they are. Are they a number 1 or 2 team in the country? Not IMO, but they are certainly a top 10 team and probably the second best team in the West. They will continue to develop and lets see what happens in 6 weeks.

While they have not broken through to Appleton they are always very competitive and there a certainly a lot of DIII teams that wish they had their success.

Trinity has never played (or perhaps I should say rarely in case there was a time I don't remember) what I would call a strong schedule. I can remember making this critique in the past and being criticized for it but it hasn't burned me yet.

This year is even worse. Why isn't Trinity playing Tyler? Why did they play 4 games against Rockford? They also could have played more games on their road trip west like some of the New Jersey and New York teams do. Get a few teams together and meet somewhere and play some games. I'm not too convinced that Trinity is playing the toughest schedule it could, even considering the circumstances. La Roche played at Marietta today on one day's notice. John Carroll played a few games in Beckley, W.Va. to try to get games in. Some teams play at 2 a.m. in the Metrodome. Huntingdon and Montclair went to Ohio to play 3 games. You do what you have to do. It's only going to be more important next year when every game counts the same for NCAA criteria.

As for what Trinity had last year, one might see that as a reason to doubt them this year. How often does a team that didn't win their region lose a first-team All-American pitcher that was draft quality and win their regional for the first time ever in the next year?

Not here to argue that TU has played a tough schedule, because they haven't.  They went to Chapman and when that was scheduled, Chapman was better than they are now.  A Quick check on schedules shows that UT-Tyler's open weekends were the first weekend of March and the first weekend of April.  TU has conference games both of those weekends.  I doubt either team sees the merit in a 7 hour, one-way, bus ride for a midweek game.  But, to each their own.  Win the conference and the SOS doesn't matter at all.

[Hammer Ball]

I am missing the reason behind the ranking given St. Joe's(ME) in both polls.  Seems very high to me.
They do not have enough games to be given a SOS on boyds but their in-region SOS on D3baseball for 7 of their 9 games is 313!  Is that right? They swept a 2-12 Rhode Island and 4-5 Ripon and beat a 4 loss Wheaton(MA) and 5-9 Keene St.  Worst yet, they lost to a 3-6 UMass-Boston.

That 4-loss Wheaton took home a piece of wood last year from Appleton. UMass-Boston and Keene State are respected programs as well. Keene State has a lot of losses but they also beat Bowdoin and Western New England. St. Joe's also beat UMass-Boston and their other loss is to Webster who was also in Appleton last year.

If you extrapolated their record to teams that have played more games that would be 14-4 or 21-6 against mostly pretty good programs. It would surprise me if St. Joe's finishes with less than 28 wins, and they could end up with many more.

But at least they actually beat those 2-12 type teams they played. We've got a team in the top 5 that lost to a 2-10 team.

Respected does not mean winning, especially as to the Beacons.  They caught lightning in a bottle in 2010, but have only had 2 other winning seasons in the last 30, including 2 straight losing seasons in 11 and 12. In the end Keene St.'s going to 5-10 and St. Joes loss to Endicott likely will remove St. Joes from the Top 25.

[infielddad]

Spence has a very long history of seeming undue attention directed toward Trinity. Without knowing the logistics of trying to run a top D3program in the vast West Region, and in Texas, with little administration support until recently, he continues to play the game of Trinity "flaming" in the Regional. Well, the fact is Trinity made 7 regionals since 2002 and played in the Championship game 4 times, if I calculate correctly, possibly 5 times.  In the West, probably only Chapman  would have overall    better results since they have the coveted CWS,. Along the way, Trinity has beaten nearly every top team in the West Region and until the SAA split, the top teams in the South including Millsaps and BSC.
They have had the post season results despite a situation of not playing games for about 20 days following the SCAC Championships.
Add to that the individual success of the Trinity program in having players drafted and those players having plenty of success in Milb as well as Summer Wood bat leagues and it seems clear Spence will pick out a loss to Rockford and avoid the great point made by JSG on the quality of the Rockford pitcher in that loss. As tigerfan noted, the goal here is to win and be ready for the SCAC's and win those and do everything possible to be prepared during that 20 day wait.

[Spence]

Spence has a very long history of seeming undue attention directed toward Trinity.

It may seem undue to you. To me it's completely due because this program is annually ranked higher than it should be because they play a lot of games early in the season and people notice.

Without knowing the logistics of trying to run a top D3program in the vast West Region, and in Texas, with little administration support until recently, he continues to play the game of Trinity "flaming" in the Regional.

I don't care what the logistics are. You do what you have to do. Almost everyone has problems to overcome in D-III. Distance, weather, money, time, resources...they're all a factor for most programs. No one said you only could play 1 game in a day or on a trip. Webster has a humdrum conference schedule so they went to Florida and played every good program they could before that conference slate starts. I already listed numerous other examples. Marietta used to play in Texas on their spring trip...did Trinity ever try to schedule a neutral site game against them? They played Texas Wesleyan at the Rangers ballpark a few times. I think you're going to have a hard time getting sympathy in a division where a bunch of northern teams scramble trying to put a season into 6 weeks.

Well, the fact is Trinity made 7 regionals since 2002 and played in the Championship game 4 times, if I calculate correctly, possibly 5 times. 

Well with any assertion of fact on the Internet comes a fact check. Uh oh.

Last year they finished 2nd and had two chances to beat Whitworth and couldn't do it. That was really a golden opportunity going against a less experienced program with a supposed pitching advantage. 2011 -- 1-2, 2010 -- 0-2. 2009 they didn't make the regional at all. 2008 they won the first two and couldn't seal it against Chapman. 2007 went 1-2. 2006 -- 1-2. 2005 -- not in the regional. 2004 -- lost the first game, went 2-2. 2003 -- no regional.

So in the last decade (more than 7 years), that looks like 2 championship games. In that time Chapman, Whitworth, George Fox, Linfield have all won the regional and Concordia-Austin won it in 2002 and is so far the only Texas school to win the regional.

They have had the post season results despite a situation of not playing games for about 20 days following the SCAC Championships.

No one said you couldn't play games after that. Dixie/USA South regional-caliber programs have been doing it for years because Averett's academic schedule pushes the tournament forward. You can play up until I believe the Sunday before regionals.

Add to that the individual success of the Trinity program in having players drafted and those players having plenty of success in Milb as well as Summer Wood bat leagues and it seems clear Spence will pick out a loss to Rockford and avoid the great point made by JSG on the quality of the Rockford pitcher in that loss. As tigerfan noted, the goal here is to win and be ready for the SCAC's and win those and do everything possible to be prepared during that 20 day wait.

You want to talk about the quality of the Rockford pitcher? Olivet beat him. He's got about 4 strikeouts per 9 innings. Almost 1 hit per 9. He has a low ERA but has given up 5 unearned runs. Just because they're not earned doesn't mean you're absolved of them. Part of good pitching is making up for mistakes behind you from time to time.

His ERA last year was 6.38 in 42 innings. It's not like Trinity was facing Brian Rauh. It's also not like Trinity scored a run. Rockford is ISR #180 today.

I'm not inclined to continue with this line of conversation because it'll on turn into a pissing match, if it hasn't already. The history is what it is, and schedule strength is what it is.

[tigerfan_2001]

Spence has a very long history of seeming undue attention directed toward Trinity.

It may seem undue to you. To me it's completely due because this program is annually ranked higher than it should be because they play a lot of games early in the season and people notice.

Without knowing the logistics of trying to run a top D3program in the vast West Region, and in Texas, with little administration support until recently, he continues to play the game of Trinity "flaming" in the Regional. Well, the fact is Trinity made 7 regionals since 2002 and played in the Championship game 4 times, if I calculate correctly, possibly 5 times.  In the West, probably only Chapman  would have overall    better results since they have the coveted CWS,. Along the way, Trinity has beaten nearly every top team in the West Region and until the SAA split, the top teams in the South including Millsaps and BSC.
They have had the post season results despite a situation of not playing games for about 20 days following the SCAC Championships.
Add to that the individual success of the Trinity program in having players drafted and those players having plenty of success in Milb as well as Summer Wood bat leagues and it seems clear Spence will pick out a loss to Rockford and avoid the great point made by JSG on the quality of the Rockford pitcher in that loss. As tigerfan noted, the goal here is to win and be ready for the SCAC's and win those and do everything possible to be prepared during that 20 day wait.

You want to talk about the quality of the Rockford pitcher? Olivet beat him.

hard to fault a pitcher when he doesnt give up an earned run.