IIAC 2013

[lastguyoffthebench]

GG - Are we starting to get along?  Your alt account, MidwestAficionado, is bringing us together.

MidwestAfic - Read below

Toughest Schedule Report thru games 11/24/2013*
1   Loras   IIAC
2   York (PA)   CAC   
3   Amherst   NESCAC   
4   St. Lawrence Liberty League   
5   Wesleyan (CT)   NESCAC   
6   Wartburg   IIAC   
7   Williams   NESCAC   
8   Messiah   Commonwealth   
9   Trinity (TX)   SCAC   
10   Emory   UAA

*Source = http://stats.ncaa.org/rankings?sport_code=MSO&division=3#
              Click on Misc. Report
              Click on Toughest schedule

Rutgers-Camden is 28th on the list. Your argument is unfounded.
[/quote]


Camden is low due playing Eastern Mennonite and Cairn.  Other than that, they could be much higher...

Bennett Rankings have the NESCAC bias, Tufts is shockingly still 7th in the nation!
NJAC is ranked 3rd conference overall with Avg BR of 52, IIAC is 9th overall with Avg BR of 108
http://bennettranking.com/men/d3

Massey Rating
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=csoc2013&sub=11620

                           Massey Rank          Massey SOS      Massey Off   Massey Def          Bennett Rank        Bennet SOS      Off       Def
Messiah                      1                           10                      1                  20                          3                          115            7         15
Camden                      2                             9                      4                   4                           1                            16            1         10
Loras                          3                             5                     15                  1                           6                            21            5          5
Williams                    13                             1                     32                 19                          4                              7            4         11

[MidwestAficionado]

GG - Are we starting to get along?  Your alt account, MidwestAficionado, is bringing us together.

MidwestAfic - Read below

Toughest Schedule Report thru games 11/24/2013*
1   Loras   IIAC
2   York (PA)   CAC   
3   Amherst   NESCAC   
4   St. Lawrence Liberty League   
5   Wesleyan (CT)   NESCAC   
6   Wartburg   IIAC   
7   Williams   NESCAC   
8   Messiah   Commonwealth   
9   Trinity (TX)   SCAC   
10   Emory   UAA

*Source = http://stats.ncaa.org/rankings?sport_code=MSO&division=3#
              Click on Misc. Report
              Click on Toughest schedule

Rutgers-Camden is 28th on the list. Your argument is unfounded.

Camden is low due playing Eastern Mennonite and Cairn.  Other than that, they could be much higher...

Bennett Rankings have the NESCAC bias, Tufts is shockingly still 7th in the nation!
NJAC is ranked 3rd conference overall with Avg BR of 52, IIAC is 9th overall with Avg BR of 108
http://bennettranking.com/men/d3

Massey Rating
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?s=csoc2013&sub=11620

                           Massey Rank          Massey SOS      Massey Off   Massey Def          Bennett Rank        Bennet SOS      Off       Def
Messiah                      1                           10                      1                  20                          3                          115            7         15
Camden                      2                             9                      4                   4                           1                            16            1         10
Loras                          3                             5                     15                  1                           6                            21            5          5
Williams                    13                             1                     32                 19                          4                              7            4         11
[/quote]

No idea who GG is and I'm not him.

Rutgers Camden is 22-0-2. With your numbers, that is versus the 28th/9th/16th toughest schedule while in the 3rd toughest conference. They have 2 Non Wins. Rutgers Camden is 4-0-1 vs NCAA Tournament Teams.

Loras is 19-1-3. With your numbers, that is versus the 1st/5th/21st toughest schedule while in the 9th toughest conference. They have 4 Non Wins, including 1 in the Tournament. Loras is 5-1-2 vs NCAA Tournament Teams.

Rutgers Camden has 1 Non Win in 5 games against NCAA Tournament Teams. Loras has 3 Non Wins in 8 games against NCAA Tournaments Teams.

Your definition of unfounded is quite off. My case certainly holds water when you cut out meaningless biased rankings.

[MidwestAficionado]

Has to be GG's alternate account.

Nope, new to Division III Soccer but have really immersed myself in it the last 3 seasons. Just saying, if you've seen these teams out East they are on a different level.

So you are new to DIII soccer, but seem to have it all figured out.  I watched R-C play, a different level they are not.  If you have been immersed for 3 seasons than you must certainly recall last years semi final between Messiah and Loras.  Both teams battled with neither showing a strong advantage over the other.  Loras has a goal called back and another off the post in regulation before Messiah had a fortunate bounce off a block to win in OT.  Loras was given the 2nd place ranking in the nation after the tourney because of their abilities and because of how Messiah trounced ONU in the final.  So for you to say "as per usual" is an ill informed and uneducated statement to say the least.  Let's take it a step further and do some comparisons to your R-C team and Loras shall we?  How many times has R-C made the final 4? Oh this is their first hmmm, how many times have they even made the tourney, well it says here 4, that would less than half of Loras's 9 in which they reached the Sweet 16 7 of those and as stated in the previous sentence the Final 4 four times in the past 7 years and this year being a repeat appearance.  Ya better pay a bit more attention before speaking up about a team and their experience.  You think that possession teams are always the better side and "hockey line" tactics aren't up to your standards eh?  Well who is the most possession oriented team in the world today Jamaica, Nigeria?  How do they fare against teams such as the Dutch or England? I'll save you the time of looking, not to well.  Loras plays to their strengths and have the ability to posses or go direct, whichever works at the time.   I will conclude with directing you to the post below by Idaho in reference to your "Foot in Mouth" comment about who Loras has played to get here.  According to the NCAA they have played the toughest schedule in the nation that's who!

I have to comment of GG' alternate name of potatoPele that is golden!

The NCAA knows what about soccer? Clock counts down... 10 second count off... unlimited subs... you're making the NCAA out to be the soccer experts which they clearly are not.

I love your rattling off all of Loras's past accomplishments. They are impressive, no doubt. I'm sure Rutgers Camden will lay down to these past accomplishment when they see this list. Actually, guess what? It's not about the past, it's about 2013. If it wasn't, then St. Louis would be playing Indiana in the Division I final and we should expect Hungary to take on West Germany in next year's World Cup. Haha but the past dictates nada. And if you wanna say that if this goal wasn't called off or this post wasn't there then Messiah would have lost to Loras... then what would Luther be saying about the Tie/PKs in Round 2.

Rutgers Camden is 4-0-1 vs NCAA Tournament Teams, Loras is 5-1-2. That is 1 Non Win vs 3 Non Wins. Loras has barely survived its first 3 Tournament games. They are not hitting stride, simply surviving. I don't base things on this ranking or that ranking. I don't live in the past and say woulda coulda shoulda. I base it on results. That is my logic for my prediction and I stand by it.

Should be exciting to see how this plays out. You all will howl at the moon if I am wrong. But when I'm right, I suspect you all won't say a peep. Lots of Tommy Tough Guys on the internet here with their bashing comments and biased favoritism instead of meaningful banter.

[ldahoSoccer]

Has to be GG's alternate account.

Nope, new to Division III Soccer but have really immersed myself in it the last 3 seasons. Just saying, if you've seen these teams out East they are on a different level.

So you are new to DIII soccer, but seem to have it all figured out.  I watched R-C play, a different level they are not.  If you have been immersed for 3 seasons than you must certainly recall last years semi final between Messiah and Loras.  Both teams battled with neither showing a strong advantage over the other.  Loras has a goal called back and another off the post in regulation before Messiah had a fortunate bounce off a block to win in OT.  Loras was given the 2nd place ranking in the nation after the tourney because of their abilities and because of how Messiah trounced ONU in the final.  So for you to say "as per usual" is an ill informed and uneducated statement to say the least.  Let's take it a step further and do some comparisons to your R-C team and Loras shall we?  How many times has R-C made the final 4? Oh this is their first hmmm, how many times have they even made the tourney, well it says here 4, that would less than half of Loras's 9 in which they reached the Sweet 16 7 of those and as stated in the previous sentence the Final 4 four times in the past 7 years and this year being a repeat appearance.  Ya better pay a bit more attention before speaking up about a team and their experience.  You think that possession teams are always the better side and "hockey line" tactics aren't up to your standards eh?  Well who is the most possession oriented team in the world today Jamaica, Nigeria?  How do they fare against teams such as the Dutch or England? I'll save you the time of looking, not to well.  Loras plays to their strengths and have the ability to posses or go direct, whichever works at the time.   I will conclude with directing you to the post below by Idaho in reference to your "Foot in Mouth" comment about who Loras has played to get here.  According to the NCAA they have played the toughest schedule in the nation that's who!

I have to comment of GG' alternate name of potatoPele that is golden!

The NCAA knows what about soccer? Clock counts down... 10 second count off... unlimited subs... you're making the NCAA out to be the soccer experts which they clearly are not.

I love your rattling off all of Loras's past accomplishments. They are impressive, no doubt. I'm sure Rutgers Camden will lay down to these past accomplishment when they see this list. Actually, guess what? It's not about the past, it's about 2013. If it wasn't, then St. Louis would be playing Indiana in the Division I final and we should expect Hungary to take on West Germany in next year's World Cup. Haha but the past dictates nada. And if you wanna say that if this goal wasn't called off or this post wasn't there then Messiah would have lost to Loras... then what would Luther be saying about the Tie/PKs in Round 2.

Rutgers Camden is 4-0-1 vs NCAA Tournament Teams, Loras is 5-1-2. That is 1 Non Win vs 3 Non Wins. Loras has barely survived its first 3 Tournament games. They are not hitting stride, simply surviving. I don't base things on this ranking or that ranking. I don't live in the past and say woulda coulda shoulda. I base it on results. That is my logic for my prediction and I stand by it.

Should be exciting to see how this plays out. You all will howl at the moon if I am wrong. But when I'm right, I suspect you all won't say a peep. Lots of Tommy Tough Guys on the internet here with their bashing comments and biased favoritism instead of meaningful banter.

You seem to be backpedaling awfully early. 

[KICKIN95]

"What does the NCAA know about soccer"?  Well I guess they would know enough to be the only governing body that actually matter when it comes to college soccer (rankings, seedings, Nation Tournament), other than that...

I don't recall giving any bashing comments.  Then past is relevant because it is a sense of winning that is handed down from year to year.  "Barely surviving it's first 3 tourney matches"?  3 matches that were collectively dominated in every category. An in conference battle which Loras held Luther to a single shot on goal that they snuck in, Loras outshot them 24-9 and 14-1 SOG, corners were 7-2.  Westminster "Cinderella" was outclasses in every facet and held scoreless in an easy 2-0 scrimmage, 27-13 shots and 11-3 SOG, corner were 9-4. Trinity "The hottest team in DIII riding a 19 game winning streak and outscoring their opponents 88-3 during that time comes to The Rock Bowl and gets promptly escorted out with a 2-1 defeat, oh and one of their 2 other losses came to none other than Luther College 2-0.  Loras again outshot their opponent 18-13 and 7-6 SOG with a healthy 8-3 corner advantage. This all adds up to a lop sided 69-35 shot advantage, a 32-10 SOG advantage, a 24-9 corner advantage, and last but not least 5-2 goal advantage.  Cleary this all lends itself to you spot on analysis of "barely surviving".  You are nothing if not confident and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but just because your team is having an indisputably great season doesn't make them the better team.  OWU can attest to that, Messiah can attest to that, Loras can attest to that, in '07 they were 23-0-2 and lost in PK's to eventual champion Middlebury.   Your team is on a great run and you are coming on our thread with arrogance and disrespect and basically saying that R-C has already punched their ticket to the Cup.  And what's with the Tommy Tough Guy thing is that a self reflection? I don't remember reading anywhere on this thread about someone saying they were going to "beat you up"?  You have been a follower for 3 years, well I have been a follower for 30 years and a former DIII player from 21 years ago so I think you might need a little more time on the bench and earn your spot before you start disrespecting this regions teams and knowledge of the game.  If anyone is being the "poser" and the Tommy Tough Guy it would be you.  The only way this will be settled is on the pitch and I am sure it will be a great match, if you are in San Antonio supporting your squad maybe we can have a beer before, after or both, loser buys.

[PaulNewman]

Have to come to the defense of my Loras friends here.

So we have a "Midwest Aficionado" who is a Camden fan and who is posting with the raw bravado of a very newly minted alum of some sort.

This isn't about who will win the game, but the logic offered is, to be generous, inane.  4-0-1 vs 5-1-2?  Seriously?

Loras is in two straight final fours with a 42-3-4 record and unarguably one of the stronger schedules in the country over those two years.  They lost in OT to the national champion.

What point exactly are you trying to make?

[Saint of Old]

Saw Loras play.
They are some ballas!
They have a strong history as well.
History is important "whatever man has done, men can do".

Both Loras and Rutgers must win a championship to cement their programs greatness.

Platini and Cantana were part or great eras, but, after '98 people talked about French football with much more respect!

[KICKIN95]

At this point Rutgers winning the Championship would be more of a one hit wonder than cementing a program, they don't have any history to back up this seasons success.

[Puerco Espin]

I think MidwestClown is trying to generate some discussion here on the IIAC board...I mean, that's the only logical excuse behind his ill-informed tirade.

Go back to your NJAC forum if you're going to erroneously banter about the national semifinal match. Hope the crickets keep you company.

[convict]

I'm hoping Loras wins. I've seen messiah and Rutgers Camden play live in the past two seasons. Time for a new champion. Never seen Williams on film and just a little bit of loras. Just seem like a classy program. Nobody has anything bad to say about them at all. Have been knocking on the door for a good couple of years. Seems to be the toughest schedule or close to it in the country too.

[Madhatter5]

I think MidwestClown is trying to generate some discussion here on the IIAC board...I mean, that's the only logical excuse behind his ill-informed tirade.

Go back to your NJAC forum if you're going to erroneously banter about the national semifinal match. Hope the crickets keep you company.

Woaw woaw woaw, No need to be throwing the C word out like that. Tough guy.

20 bucks says it's Idaho's alt account.

I'm liking your confidence Midwest, means Loras will be up for a good game next weekend. Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it down to watch live. Would be a great game to see.

Since I don't know much about the players and it seems you know everything and all, how about rattling off some player stats and team formation for us here in the "just surviving" forum. Educate us a bit.

[MidwestAficionado]

Keep piling on... You all are tremendous at jumping to conclusions.

I'm from the Midwest and went to a Division I school. Have absolutely no ties to Rutgers or NJ or any D3 institution for that matter. If any of you did your homework - which clearly you didn't - I've posted on two threads: this one and coaching changes. So you all hit that one out of the park.

As for Loras, I have an unbiased opinion. I'm not a homer on this board rooting for my alma mater or the school where my son played til death do us part. I watch D3 with a neutrality and a respect for successful programs, particularly those who attempt to play the beautiful game as intended. Loras I have high respect for, very elite program. But the final four is all about one game - not past, not respect, not anything. Its 90 minutes and my thoughts are Rutgers vs Messiah in the final.

When you've advanced by PKs, a 2-0 score, and a 2-1 score despite playing a cinderella and all the statistical domination you cite, I call that barely surviving. Based on your lopsided stats, sounds like they should have won each game 5-0. But guess what, they are +3 thru 3 games... So yes, to me that's barely surviving. Certainly wasn't comfortable. And for the record, soccer is not a stats sport. If there are two stats that dictate a game its possession and score. Everything else don't mean jack. This isn't American baseball.

You all continue to sit here and rip every sentence apart. That's great. I'm not engaging in it further.

Rutgers vs Messiah in the final

[lastguyoffthebench]

Has to be GG's alternate account.

Nope, new to Division III Soccer but have really immersed myself in it the last 3 seasons. Just saying, if you've seen these teams out East they are on a different level.

So you are new to DIII soccer, but seem to have it all figured out.  I watched R-C play, a different level they are not.  If you have been immersed for 3 seasons than you must certainly recall last years semi final between Messiah and Loras.  Both teams battled with neither showing a strong advantage over the other.  Loras has a goal called back and another off the post in regulation before Messiah had a fortunate bounce off a block to win in OT.  Loras was given the 2nd place ranking in the nation after the tourney because of their abilities and because of how Messiah trounced ONU in the final.  So for you to say "as per usual" is an ill informed and uneducated statement to say the least.  Let's take it a step further and do some comparisons to your R-C team and Loras shall we?  How many times has R-C made the final 4? Oh this is their first hmmm, how many times have they even made the tourney, well it says here 4, that would less than half of Loras's 9 in which they reached the Sweet 16 7 of those and as stated in the previous sentence the Final 4 four times in the past 7 years and this year being a repeat appearance.  Ya better pay a bit more attention before speaking up about a team and their experience.  You think that possession teams are always the better side and "hockey line" tactics aren't up to your standards eh?  Well who is the most possession oriented team in the world today Jamaica, Nigeria?  How do they fare against teams such as the Dutch or England? I'll save you the time of looking, not to well.  Loras plays to their strengths and have the ability to posses or go direct, whichever works at the time.   I will conclude with directing you to the post below by Idaho in reference to your "Foot in Mouth" comment about who Loras has played to get here.  According to the NCAA they have played the toughest schedule in the nation that's who!

I have to comment of GG' alternate name of potatoPele that is golden!

Kickin, I call BS on you actually watching R-C play!  Saying they are not on a different level makes zero sense, because they have had almost identical records to Loras over the past three seasons; 58-5-7 vs 59-6-7.  Yet you go on stating how awesome Loras is by backing it up with a history lesson... Is Loras on a different level?  You can bring all the history you want with how many Final Fours Loras made that lost to a better team, most likely from the East.  Here is my history lesson, this is the NJACs 6th team reaching the FINAL FOUR.  The NJAC is hands down much better than the IIAC...  has any other team from the IIAC sniffed the final four? 

Rutgers-Camden is a young program that is slowly building itself.   If you want to make a somewhat legit comparison:

2011: 
Camden loses in Elite 8 to Oneonta State 2-1 in 2OT 
Loras loses 4-0 to Calvin in Round of 32 or Sweet 16?
Oneonta then loses to Calvin 4-2.

2012
Camden loses to York in PKs in Round of 32  (OMG York lost to Messiah in Pks too!!!)  So, like, Camden is like totally on same page as Loras!
Loras loses in 99th min to Messiah in semifinal.

2013
Camden dominates Lycoming, puts up 3 on York before they realize whats going on (Messiah failed to score on York), beats another ranked team in Montclair.
Loras goes to PKs vs Luther, plays kick and run vs Westminster, beats Trinity (was a nice equalizer in transition)....


The almighty Messiah scores 2 goals in 200 minutes vs Lycoming, whereas Camden puts up 4!  And you don't think Lycoming sat in on them as well? 

After watching a few of the Loras games, truth be told, there are some similarities in style and talent to Montclair St (Camden boasts a 3-1-1 record since 2011)


This will be the better game of the semifinals, and I truly believe whoever comes out of Loras vs Camden will be your new division III champion!

[lastguyoffthebench]

Midwest,

I was waiting for that.   You mention East Coast, and the Loras faithful assume you are a Camden supporter/alumnus because you are not boasting about Messiah.   

[Sirius90]

Now this I like. True animosity, alt accounts, name calling. Midwest'Clown', I like the cut of your jib, coming in here and ruffling some Duhawk feathers. Keep it up. Duhawkers, don't let this Jersey scum come in here and sully your thread!

I'm going to predict a close game, with RUC scoring early and holding on to win. From what little I've seen of Loras, they are fast, skilled, relatively direct attackers. York came into Camden a similarly athletic side, were very dangerous, but were unable to break through against a stout defense. The RUC counter is pretty lethal. The one reservation that I have is if they can connect on grass. They are very good at putting their opportunities on frame on home turf. Will a slightly choppy field reduce their accuracy in the final third? They will not get a lot of good chances against the Duhawks.