Top Conferences and NCAA Bids

[PaulNewman]

last guy, I am a neutral and to clarify my position, I didn't have a problem with Balle's game-ending celebration.  I didn't like Ryan's and I liked Ryan's less as his antics the rest of the match confirmed my reaction on his goal celebration.  And Balle showed poor form throughout both games sticking his finger in the ref's face multiple times in both games.  They got in extra knocks at every opportunity.  The got in the face of Messiah players who were down telling them to get up (not in the final minutes where you would be worried about time wasting but in the 1st 30 minutes).  To their credit, perhaps because of a good halftime speech from the coach, Camden mostly just tried to play good soccer in the 2nd half and almost won as a result. And the Messiah player didn't kick the ball out because of pressure.  How often do you see a Messiah player do that?  He clearly stopped and then afterwards was looking at the ref and Camden to acknowledge what he did.  I thought he was way too generous in kicking it out so it was his mistake but Camden certainly didn't acknowledge his attempt at sportsmanship and were more than happy to accept a dangerous free kick or throw out of it.  Also, I shared my reactions before seeing anyone here say a word.  Obviously the behavior of Camden was noticeable to more than just a couple of us.

[KICKIN95]

And for the record.  No, I was not at the game... but in watching the game with 10 other people regarding that throw in during the first OT.

From the perception of the computer screen, the player down was not visible.  It looked as if Messiah player knocked it out under slight pressure, not as a precaution for the injury.  So in trying to win a national title, all of us watching said.... "no, don't throw it back to 'em"

I guess you just don't get it. It's not about who won,  it's about their moral compass and direct reflection of the coaches who allow that behavior.  You hit 2 nails on your statement about the throw in, you didn't see the r-c player who was down and you obviously knew that Messiah's purpose was to stop play for a downed player and evrn knowing that would still choose to take the throw in because "the game is on the line" You just showed the extent of you knowledge of the game and the direction your personal moral compass points.  Birds of a feather!

[lastguyoffthebench]

I guess my moral compass is messed up, but how is yours these days?

Moral compass?  Is that your play here?  Is it right or wrong to belittle, or blatantly call out a program, players, or staff though on multiple occasions.  Birds of a feather!  Since Camden is so wrong in everything they do, why do you feel that is acceptable to display it on a public forum.  The right thing to do would be to keep your fingers off the keyboard.

[lastguyoffthebench]

I know some of the staff/team, as I have mentioned before.   During the banquet, there was a video clip of Loras doing that celebration with the ever so not clever "Kayaking or Rowing" whatever you want to call it, NCAC.  In that case, I am sorry, but I think that makes it funnier (what you would call cocky) move by Mike Ryan. 

Again, my moral compass is totally screwed up.

[PaulNewman]

So he was getting back at or taunting Loras with his display?  The banquet?  You mean last night, or a year ago?  Why was Camden doing video of Loras at their banquet?  Like I said, my impressions of Ryan, Balle, and 3 or 4 others was formed over two full games.  After 4 hours of jawing, smirking, taunting, fouling unnecessarily, etc, one can get an impression.  Like I said, they mostly focused on playing good, hard soccer in the 2nd half and were rewarded getting the game into OT.  They had a phenomenal season.  A season to remember.  But THEY are responsible for the impressions they make...not us here with our keyboards.  There is a difference between pride and punk.

[KICKIN95]

I guess my moral compass is messed up, but how is yours these days?

Moral compass?  Is that your play here?  Is it right or wrong to belittle, or blatantly call out a program, players, or staff though on multiple occasions.  Birds of a feather!  Since Camden is so wrong in everything they do, why do you feel that is acceptable to display it on a public forum.  The right thing to do would be to keep your fingers off the keyboard.

For the very fact that it is a public forum and the team displayed themselves in a very public fashion. I didn't ever be little them they did a fine job of that on there own. 
So now you are a judge of goal celebrations?  There was a meaning behind it when Loras did it and again I'm sure not checking with you first must have slipped their minds.
Listen closely son, this team exposed itself to many fans, parents, coaches from quite a few teams not to mention ncaa committee members.  My opinion is a consensus not a lone presumption,  your excuses have worn themselves out. 

[Ambush004]

I love how Balle celebrated his goal as if he was specifically aiming for the upper 9 of the goal from 75 yards away.  Celebrations are a great part of the game, and everyone loves to do them but do them as you DESERVE them.  I was sitting on the sideline of the game and the words/actions coming from Mike "two first names" Ryan were embarrassing.  There was one point where he gave the finger to a fan, maybe his play wouldn't of suffered so much if he was paying attention to the game he was in and not about giving fans harassment back. 

I'm glad Messiah won, but come on.  DIII Soccer need to come together and beat this monopoly of a program.  Loras will be back within 2 years.  They had a great freshman class come in this year and almost all of them saw playing time in the semi final.  Experience is huge when it comes to these games and the team that has the most composure will gain the upper hand.  R-C put away their chances and Loras struggled to keep the ball on target.  If these two teams meet again, which I hope they do...

Loras... 2
Rutgers-Camden....-1

[Jim Matson]

Guys,

I am not a censor, but I did delete a post that specifically referred to certain Rutgers-Camden players and personal issues. That's off-base in this forum. And I do wish that I could edit some of the previous posts...but of course, I won't. However, I do think that the artful use of the English language by you guys has become too accusatory.

Look, R-C had a shot at something they have never had before; thus they played hard and they played to the edge. And in some cases, the players let their emotions get the best of them. Stuff like this happens, and in most cases, has happened to all of our programs at some point in the past. And we never like it when it is called out. These are college-aged athletes who are competing for a national title, and so emotions will always be present...and the results of any of these behaviors will become tomorrow's learning experiences. Assessing player performance has always been part of the D3Board experience, but we all need to throttle down the comments lest we become too emotional ourselves - and create a bad example for others (this is a more serious issue for me).

Messiah has played at this level for years, and has certain flexibility in creating a team that a public school doesn't have. The make-up of the team, and thus the culture of the team will be unique in comparison. And let's face it, the NJAC is a tough league in which to play. No one can dispute that. Out here in the CCIW, things are always competitive, but different parts of the country have different levels of intensity, and it has been that way for decades. My point? Let's cut the new guys to the party some slack.

I am not excusing any kind of behavior that is unsportsmanlike, or mean-spirited. But I do believe that the quality of person writing on these Boards allows for the ability to provide critical comments without crossing the (undefined) line of good taste and professional maturity.

These are my personal comments, so have at me if you think I am wrong. But I do ask that you respect my requests for how we write what we write.

[cacattack]

I am a Williams parent and wasn't at the Championship game, so I can't comment on the events there. I can only say this - when Messiah thoroughly beat us, we never got chippy, crass or belligerent. We faught until the final second and lost with dignity. And Messiah, knowing that they had outclassed us, could have been poor winners  but they were not. They won with class and celebrated their win without rubbing our noses in it. I am as impressed with the class of their program as I am proud of the character of ours.
Congrats to all of the seniors who had the honor of playing their final match in the NCAA Final Four. Enjoy it while you can because next year, the competition gets really tough.

[1970s NESCAC Player]

Hiker Jim:

You are, of course, correct.  Posters would be well-advised to think twice before posting any adversarial response.  Often, the best response is none at all.  None of us are going to win any arguments in this forum.

[PaulNewman]

Hiker Jim, I appreciate your post and I agree with your decision to delete that particular post. You make good points.  I struggled with exactly what I wanted to write and in what style.  And of course some of the ratcheting up occurs when there is a defense to the initial reactions.  And then I see yet another poster, on another thread today, quite independently because he (GarbageGoals) has shown himself to be far from pro-Loras, feel compelled to comment about Rutgers-C.  Can we give them a break?  Sure.  But is it important that A LOT of folks, and not just fans of Loras who could be painted as sore losers, viewed the overall behavior of Camden and particular antics of particular players problematic?  My guess is that they could care less.  I hope that's not true.  Someone there needs to understand that they should take a look at their behavior.  If they are going to continue coming "to the party" do we have a right to expect some improvement?  Or do we just let it ride because the NJAC is so tough and "gritty"?  And if you are new to the party, is there any value in leaving a good or at least neutral impression of your school and team?

[KnightFalcon]

Jim, curious by what you mean when you write Messiah "has certain flexibility in creating a team that a public school doesn't have"

[lastguyoffthebench]

KnightFalcon,

Perhaps HikerJim simply meant flexibility in the sense that Messiah has established itself as national powerhouse athletically, ON TOP of it's academic focus and spiritual growth.  Messiah has always been top-class...  The philosophy of the college/athletic programs builds character and emphasizes teamwork.  There is a reason why these talented athletes choose Messiah over D1 programs...

[lastguyoffthebench]

Hiker Jim, I appreciate your post and I agree with your decision to delete that particular post. You make good points.  I struggled with exactly what I wanted to write and in what style.  And of course some of the ratcheting up occurs when there is a defense to the initial reactions.  And then I see yet another poster, on another thread today, quite independently because he (GarbageGoals) has shown himself to be far from pro-Loras, feel compelled to comment about Rutgers-C.  Can we give them a break?  Sure.  But is it important that A LOT of folks, and not just fans of Loras who could be painted as sore losers, viewed the overall behavior of Camden and particular antics of particular players problematic?  My guess is that they could care less.  I hope that's not true.  Someone there needs to understand that they should take a look at their behavior.  If they are going to continue coming "to the party" do we have a right to expect some improvement?  Or do we just let it ride because the NJAC is so tough and "gritty"?  And if you are new to the party, is there any value in leaving a good or at least neutral impression of your school and team?

NCAC, there is a difference between being frustrated and a sore loser.  I am no representative of Camden, nor do I have ties to the university itself.  I do, however, have friend(s) that I know in the organization that work tremendously hard to make them a competitive program (that are not even full-time employees).  I was not present for the Final Four, but will still stick up for them regardless of actions.  In regards to Camden's future, you may not have to worry about them as I mentioned previously... they are losing way too much to possibly be in that spectrum of final 4 status again;  Losing a GK, 3 defenders, 1 CDM, and a most likely 2nd team All-American attacking mid.  They are similar to the Ohio Northern squad that made the final in 2012 (that lost 7 or 8 seniors).  The only difference is that the NJAC is too deep, or rather, too unpredictable and too gritty.  Any dark horse in the state-school market of NJ can make a run  (Camden could very well finish as low as 4th in 5th in conference next season).  There is a reason why Camden has been the 6th school in a 10 team conference has made it to the Final Four in the last 15 years... probably more than any other conference in the nation.

While some/most people are against the style of play, it still should not excuse the behavior...  Maybe if they ever get back to the elite class of final 4 it will be different, but until then... move on.   2014 season will be among us before you know it.

[KICKIN95]

Hiker Jim, I appreciate your post and I agree with your decision to delete that particular post. You make good points.  I struggled with exactly what I wanted to write and in what style.  And of course some of the ratcheting up occurs when there is a defense to the initial reactions.  And then I see yet another poster, on another thread today, quite independently because he (GarbageGoals) has shown himself to be far from pro-Loras, feel compelled to comment about Rutgers-C.  Can we give them a break?  Sure.  But is it important that A LOT of folks, and not just fans of Loras who could be painted as sore losers, viewed the overall behavior of Camden and particular antics of particular players problematic?  My guess is that they could care less.  I hope that's not true.  Someone there needs to understand that they should take a look at their behavior.  If they are going to continue coming "to the party" do we have a right to expect some improvement?  Or do we just let it ride because the NJAC is so tough and "gritty"?  And if you are new to the party, is there any value in leaving a good or at least neutral impression of your school and team?

NCAC, there is a difference between being frustrated and a sore loser.  I am no representative of Camden, nor do I have ties to the university itself.  I do, however, have friend(s) that I know in the organization that work tremendously hard to make them a competitive program (that are not even full-time employees).  I was not present for the Final Four, but will still stick up for them regardless of actions.  In regards to Camden's future, you may not have to worry about them as I mentioned previously... they are losing way too much to possibly be in that spectrum of final 4 status again;  Losing a GK, 3 defenders, 1 CDM, and a most likely 2nd team All-American attacking mid.  They are similar to the Ohio Northern squad that made the final in 2012 (that lost 7 or 8 seniors).  The only difference is that the NJAC is too deep, or rather, too unpredictable and too gritty.  Any dark horse in the state-school market of NJ can make a run  (Camden could very well finish as low as 4th in 5th in conference next season).  There is a reason why Camden has been the 6th school in a 10 team conference has made it to the Final Four in the last 15 years... probably more than any other conference in the nation.

While some/most people are against the style of play, it still should not excuse the behavior...  Maybe if they ever get back to the elite class of final 4 it will be different, but until then... move on.   2014 season will be among us before you know it.

It's painfully obvious to me know that you just aren't capable of understanding anything beyond wins and losses.  It really is sad that you think I am being a "Sore Loser".  I have mentioned several times that this went way beyond a "W" or "L", but you would rather hang on to that as your one and only justification of my actions.  I guess if that is what makes it better in your head than so be it, I just hope when you wake up one day and realize that sports aren't just about winning you can have another "AHA" moment about character and class in sports and realize where I am coming from.