Pool C -- 2013

[Toby Taff]

You got it in one, Ex.  HSU was never provided the opportunity to kick the PAT (because why would you after winning the game in OT with the TD).  UMHB was rooked out of a Pool C bid that year despite going 9-1 and that was the last time they didn't make the playoffs.   They were pretty new to football and would not win their first playoff game until the following year - and haven't looked back since. 

That was also the flash in the pan year for East Texas Baptist, which has but a single season over .500 since (6-4, 2005).  So maybe it's a good thing the tie breaker turned out the way it did, and ETBU even got a playoff win out of it (against Trinity, sigh) before narrowly dropping a second-round contest at Lycoming.

Thanks for confirming, Ron.  I'm sure we've had this exact conversation once before, but this is honestly still one of my favorite miniscule pieces of football trivia, and my go-to example for a) why PAT's should always be kicked even on game-ending plays as long as MOV/points-scored tiebreakers are in place and b) why margin of victory or points scored really should never be used in any tie-breakers.

That SNAFU caused a change in the tie breaker for the ASC. The rule for football now is:

In the event of a three-way or more tie that cannot be broken by the record against
the tied teams followed by record against other conference opponents in descending order, the Commissioner
shall conduct a draw with the tied teams to determine the conference's automatic qualifier to the NCAA
Division III Football Championship

[wally_wabash]

BTW, next week I'm going to hold off on my projection until I get a peek at the regional rankings on Wednesday. 

Wednesday is going to be a rough day for my refresh button. 

[K-Mack]

As far as I know, that nine-game thing is a myth. It may have been true at one point but I have never seen it codified in black and white.

What would "legally" keep Trinity (or Wesleyan) from declaring eligible for the playoffs? I would think it likely they would get kicked out of the NESCAC if they did so.

Heck, that (champ declaring eligible for NCAA playoffs and then being kicked out of NESCAC) would solve the NESCAC's scheduling dilemma as it would reduce the NESCAC number to nine and facilitate genuine round-robin scheduling in the NESCAC's "old school" eight-game schedule. Are there any revolutionists in New England (at Trinity or Wesleyan)? 

The nine-game thing, were it not a myth, would be interesting in regard to Merchant Marine.

[wally_wabash]

Well it was fun to what-if the Merchant Marine thing for a couple of days anyway.

The Gusties just did everybody a huge favor by knocking off St. John's.

TLU is going to beat LC.

Rhodes loses to Birmingham Southern, making life a little easier for Wesley.  Rhodes went for a deuce with 1:18 left and had the try intercepted. They lose by one point. Whoa.

Good stuff out there today.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Well it was fun to what-if the Merchant Marine thing for a couple of days anyway.

The Gusties just did everybody a huge favor by knocking off St. John's.

TLU is going to beat LC.

Rhodes loses to Birmingham Southern, making life a little easier for Wesley.  Rhodes went for a deuce with 1:18 left and had the try intercepted. They lose by one point. Whoa.

Good stuff out there today.

Pool B picture is looking a bit clearer and now I think we can rule out the possibility of B taking a C. I guess it's possible that you'll have Millsaps, TLU, Wesley in via Pool B and then Framingham will be in the C picture, but that's about it.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Assuming they don't get upset the next two weeks, IWU is likely to be the first C off the board.  They lost to NCC today, 46-17 (though that is misleading - they trailed 25-17 midway thru the 4th), virtually eliminating them from the AQ.  (The only way they could still get it, is Wheaton beat NCC AND NCC lose to Augie at home; I'd sooner bet on a snowball's chances in hell .)

In the event of a 3-way NCC/Wheaton/IWU tie, IWU is out, but (assuming NCC is the AQ, which is virtually certain after the 29-point win today), the h-to-h over Wheaton should give IWU precedence over Wheaton if they're both 9-1, and I like the odds of a 9-1 CCIW runner-up being the first to go (though a 9-1 runner-up in the OAC or WIAC would be a stiff competitor).

On reconsideration - barring upsets, I think IWU is one of the first three off the C board!

[wally_wabash]

Assuming they don't get upset the next two weeks, IWU is likely to be the first C off the board.  They lost to NCC today, 46-17 (though that is misleading - they trailed 25-17 midway thru the 4th), virtually eliminating them from the AQ.  (The only way they could still get it, is Wheaton beat NCC AND NCC lose to Augie at home; I'd sooner bet on a snowball's chances in hell .)

In the event of a 3-way NCC/Wheaton/IWU tie, IWU is out, but (assuming NCC is the AQ, which is virtually certain after the 29-point win today), the h-to-h over Wheaton should give IWU precedence over Wheaton if they're both 9-1, and I like the odds of a 9-1 CCIW runner-up being the first to go (though a 9-1 runner-up in the OAC or WIAC would be a stiff competitor).

On reconsideration - barring upsets, I think IWU is one of the first three off the C board!

I keep missing the part in the criteria where what league a team plays in matters.  I keep missing it because it isn't there. 

Now, while I would agree that IWU should be ranked ahead of Wheaton and should be in the at-large line in front of Wheaton, I would in no way be surprised if the RAC slips Wheaton ahead of Illinois Wesleyan should the Thunder go and beat North Central next week.  Not a choice I would agree with, but not beyond the realm of possibility. 

And the Wheaton thing is just one thing to consider (probably made moot when North Central beats them next week).  There is also the OAC's situation to sort out and if you wind up with three 9-1 teams there, IWU would be looking up at at least two of them (and hopefully one of those two gets the Pool A spot).  More likely is that Mount Union does their business and you wind up with the winner of JCU/Heidelberg as a potential leader atop the North region's at-large list.  I think certainly John Carroll would sit ahead of IWU.  I'm less sure about Heidelberg because I don't think they'll get enough SOS help to wind up in front of IWU per the criteria. 

So, if I'm projecting today, I'd have IWU second on the North's at-large list.  Elsewhere, I don't think IWU gets picked in front of PLU or the Oshkosh/Platteville winner.  IWU is probably looking at the 4th C selection right now.  We'll be able to parse this all out a little better after we get rankings on Wednesday. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yeah, I'm well aware that conference membership doesn't mean squat for selection.  That was just shorthand for the 3-headed monsters that the OAC, WIAC, and CCIW are this year.  And I shouldn't have left out PLU.  While the MIAC has a legitimate argument for being THE best conference this year, I strongly suspect their #2 team will have 2 losses.

Eagerly awaiting the RRs.  I have a sneaking suspicion that all 5 Cs will be from the North and West.  Can't wait for the cries of outrage elsewhere, but who is worthy from the South and East who won't be either an A or B?

[Ralph Turner]

Yeah, I'm well aware that conference membership doesn't mean squat for selection.  That was just shorthand for the 3-headed monsters that the OAC, WIAC, and CCIW are this year.  And I shouldn't have left out PLU.  While the MIAC has a legitimate argument for being THE best conference this year, I strongly suspect their #2 team will have 2 losses.

Eagerly awaiting the RRs.  I have a sneaking suspicion that all 5 Cs will be from the North and West.  Can't wait for the cries of outrage elsewhere, but who is worthy from the South and East who won't be either an A or B?

I don't think any Pool C's will come from the South, or maybe not even the East.

[wally_wabash]

Thomas More is a possibility out of the South region.  Perhaps the only possibility.  The East has fully cannibalized itself.  The best Pool C shot there is probably Framingham State at the moment.  Hobart would assume that spot (I think) if they should lose to St. Lawrence next week.  In the West, Concordia-Moorhead can still finish 9-1 and be a third really strong team out of the West if they win their final two games (at St. Thomas and vs. Gustavus Adolphus...not an easy finish there).  If they lose, St. Norbert at 9-1 might be the third team up in the West after PLU and the Oshkosh/Platteville winner. 

But any of those teams mentioned above would all be hard to select until the very end of the selection process.  Thomas More, Framingham, Norbert (or a 2-loss MIAC runner up...probably St. Thomas if it comes to that) and then a North team (I'm thinking the Wabash/Witt loser or another CCIW or OAC team in the event of tri-champs there) would probably be up for the 5th and final golden ticket. 

[Ralph Turner]

Thomas More is a possibility out of the South region.  Perhaps the only possibility.  The East has fully cannibalized itself.  The best Pool C shot there is probably Framingham State at the moment.  Hobart would assume that spot (I think) if they should lose to St. Lawrence next week.  In the West, Concordia-Moorhead can still finish 9-1 and be a third really strong team out of the West if they win their final two games (at St. Thomas and vs. Gustavus Adolphus...not an easy finish there).  If they lose, St. Norbert at 9-1 might be the third team up in the West after PLU and the Oshkosh/Platteville winner. 

But any of those teams mentioned above would all be hard to select until the very end of the selection process.  Thomas More, Framingham, Norbert (or a 2-loss MIAC runner up...probably St. Thomas if it comes to that) and then a North team (I'm thinking the Wabash/Witt loser or another CCIW or OAC team in the event of tri-champs there) would probably be up for the 5th and final golden ticket. 

The rivalry game with Mount St Joseph (Bridge Bowl XVIII) will have a lot on the line!

[SaintsFAN]

Thomas More is a possibility out of the South region.  Perhaps the only possibility.  The East has fully cannibalized itself.  The best Pool C shot there is probably Framingham State at the moment.  Hobart would assume that spot (I think) if they should lose to St. Lawrence next week.  In the West, Concordia-Moorhead can still finish 9-1 and be a third really strong team out of the West if they win their final two games (at St. Thomas and vs. Gustavus Adolphus...not an easy finish there).  If they lose, St. Norbert at 9-1 might be the third team up in the West after PLU and the Oshkosh/Platteville winner. 

But any of those teams mentioned above would all be hard to select until the very end of the selection process.  Thomas More, Framingham, Norbert (or a 2-loss MIAC runner up...probably St. Thomas if it comes to that) and then a North team (I'm thinking the Wabash/Witt loser or another CCIW or OAC team in the event of tri-champs there) would probably be up for the 5th and final golden ticket. 

The rivalry game with Mount St Joseph (Bridge Bowl XVIII) will have a lot on the line!

And MSJ is going to be mad about the 75-6 score from last year.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Not to mention the fact that MSJ has the opportunity to double the HCAC's non-conference win total this season

[02 Warhawk]

Safe to say that most likely a Pool C bid will come from the WIAC. I've read in previous pages on this thread that UWP is projected to get the bid. However, after many of us WIAC fans have seen both teams play, the WIAC faithful (including myself) are confident that Oshkosh will take down UWP...capturing that at-large bid.

Platteville's high-powered offense really struggled the other day against Whitewater's defense (just one offensive TD). In two weeks when Platteville travels to Oshkosh, the Pioneers are going to experience similar frustrations as Oshkosh's D can really get after the QB. Also, UWP's defense is very average at best. They won't be able to stop Oshkosh.

It kills me to admit that UWO is the better team, because I really thought UWP was the real deal back in August (better than UWW and UWO).

[ExTartanPlayer]

In the event of a 3-way NCC/Wheaton/IWU tie, IWU is out, but (assuming NCC is the AQ, which is virtually certain after the 29-point win today), the h-to-h over Wheaton should give IWU precedence over Wheaton if they're both 9-1, and I like the odds of a 9-1 CCIW runner-up being the first to go (though a 9-1 runner-up in the OAC or WIAC would be a stiff competitor).

I keep missing the part in the criteria where what league a team plays in matters.  I keep missing it because it isn't there. 

Just to be clear, a couple of places I've used this lingo as well, but I'm doing it as shorthand instead of typing out every possible team.  I expect the WIAC runnerup, OAC runnerup, and CCIW runnerup to claim three of the five Pool C spots, not because of the leagues they play in but because whoever it is occupying those respective spots will be one of the best teams on the board.  It's just easier to say "CCIW runnerup" than it is to list all three teams who that could possibly end up being.  I'm not saying that being the CCIW runner-up is a criteria; I'm saying that whether the CCIW runner-up is 9-1 Illinois Wesleyan, 9-1 Wheaton, or 9-1 North Central, whichever one that ends up being is likely to be high on the list.