Pool C -- 2013

[Mr. Ypsi]

By the way, it is NOT "once ranked, always ranked" this year, so Pacific being ranked would have helped PLU this week but not on Selection Sunday if Pacific doesn't remain ranked.

whoa, whoa, whoa, really?

We've been making all of our assumptions based on that!  Wow, this changes a lot!

Yeah, I'd root for Hope over Albion in week 11 anyway, but now it is really important for seeding purposes for IWU (I feel pretty confident of a pool C either way) - 2-1 vs. RROs looks considerably better than 1-1!

[hazzben]

By the way, it is NOT "once ranked, always ranked" this year, so Pacific being ranked would have helped PLU this week but not on Selection Sunday if Pacific doesn't remain ranked.

Whoa! So Pacific is probably meaningless for PLU, unless they pull off a huge upset.

UWW should be cheering hard for Wash U v. Chicago.

Bethel wants Wartburg to win out. Roll of the dice if the Cobbers could survive a 2nd loss to UST and still remain ranked. Maybe both get in, depending on how things play out. But probably safer to hope Cobbers and Wartburg prevail and count our blessings that we could be 2-0 v. RRO. If both lose, it's possible Bethel finishes 0-0 v. RRO. Talk about a shift!

Man, that is a huge swing in how the seeding and Pool C criteria will play out!

[d-train]

Whoa! So Pacific is probably meaningless for PLU, unless they pull off a huge upset.

VERY little chance that Pacific beats Linfield in week 11.  The winner of this weekend's Pacific-Willamette game will merit some consideration in that final list, but will likely fall just short.  Redlands has a decent shot at the 9th or 10th slot with their strong SOS, which would help PLU.  Quite a few games of interest this week and next!

[Ralph Turner]

Pat, that is news!  When (and why?) did they drop 'once ranked, always ranked'?

Honestly, they have gone back and forth several times in the course of this playoff structure. I know the why is likely because they feel that a win against a team that could well end up 7-3 or 6-3 is not necessarily a valuable data point.

I feel any data point is a worthy data point.

I agree. If a team is that good by the 9th week of the season, then they have to be on the edge of the Top 10.  In parts of the countyry where it is unlikely to schedule other ranked teams, or in conferences where you only have one OOC game (e.g., Centennial, OAC), I want every datum that I can get.

[d-train]

I agree. If a team is that good by the 9th week of the season, then they have to be on the edge of the Top 10.  In parts of the countyry where it is unlikely to schedule other ranked teams, or in conferences where you only have one OOC game (e.g., Centennial, OAC), I want every datum that I can get.

I don't know...can see the other side too.  Pacific is a good example.  They look good right now (7-1) with only a one-point loss to PLU.  IMO, they could/should have been ranked this week.  But it's very possible that they drop their last two (Willamette and Linfield).  So maybe they finish 7-3 and (under the previous rules) could have counted as a RRO where some team finishes 8-2 (say UST for example) might not count because they picked up their loses before week 10.

[ExTartanPlayer]

By the way, it is NOT "once ranked, always ranked" this year, so Pacific being ranked would have helped PLU this week but not on Selection Sunday if Pacific doesn't remain ranked.

whoa, whoa, whoa, really?

We've been making all of our assumptions based on that!  Wow, this changes a lot!

Yeah, I'd root for Hope over Albion in week 11 anyway, but now it is really important for seeding purposes for IWU (I feel pretty confident of a pool C either way) - 2-1 vs. RROs looks considerably better than 1-1!

Agreed, were I in your position!

[wally_wabash]

Grumbling about the moving away from the once ranked, always ranked situation.  There just aren't enough data points to be tossing some out...as noted.  I thought reducing the number of regional rankings was a nice compromise.  I guess I was wrong.  Also not a fan that the only rankings that really count are secret.  I'm not saying that the fine people on the national committee are up to no good, but if something head scratching happens between the last public release and tournament selection, it certainly opens the door for questions and doubts about the process having been done dutifully. 

But oh well...it is, as they say, what it is.  We shall carry on and have a great tournament as always. 

[AO]

Do they only count the regionally ranked wins after the final secret regional rankings have been decided?  Or are they counting based upon the previous week's regional rankings?

[desertcat1]

Do they only count the regionally ranked wins after the final secret regional rankings have been decided?  Or are they counting based upon the previous week's regional rankings?

It could be a secret...   "only the shadow knows"

[hazzben]

AO brings up a great point. Assuming the regional committees are working independently of one another, whether or not teams move into or out of the rankings in the other regions can't be know. So the Regional rankings will get slotted in a cloudy way. This has the potential to affect how #1 seeds are allocated, but more so the Pool B/C order. The national committee will no doubt adjust the RRO data when it sees the final rankings of all four regions. But will they reslot any teams accordingly if they gained or lost any RRO?

[02 Warhawk]

By the way, it is NOT "once ranked, always ranked" this year, so Pacific being ranked would have helped PLU this week but not on Selection Sunday if Pacific doesn't remain ranked.

Whoa! So Pacific is probably meaningless for PLU, unless they pull off a huge upset.

UWW should be cheering hard for Wash U v. Chicago.

Bethel wants Wartburg to win out. Roll of the dice if the Cobbers could survive a 2nd loss to UST and still remain ranked. Maybe both get in, depending on how things play out. But probably safer to hope Cobbers and Wartburg prevail and count our blessings that we could be 2-0 v. RRO. If both lose, it's possible Bethel finishes 0-0 v. RRO. Talk about a shift!

Man, that is a huge swing in how the seeding and Pool C criteria will play out!

So it's safe to say that Bethel probably can't count on St. John's as a regional win? Assuming Bethel takes care of the Johnnies? 

You're right about Whitewater becoming a huge Wash U fan now!! Hopefully whoever loses between UWP and UWO doesn't fall off the rankings.

[AO]

So it's safe to say that Bethel probably can't count on St. John's as a regional win? Assuming Bethel takes care of the Johnnies? 

You're right about Whitewater becoming a huge Wash U fan now!! Hopefully whoever loses between UWP and UWO doesn't fall off the rankings.

I don't know if anything is safe to say.  I think St. Thomas gets in to the regional rankings after beating Concordia giving them the best win of any of the 2 loss teams.  This in turn also gives St. John's a regionally ranked win that will be counted in the secret rankings?

[02 Warhawk]

So it's safe to say that Bethel probably can't count on St. John's as a regional win? Assuming Bethel takes care of the Johnnies? 

You're right about Whitewater becoming a huge Wash U fan now!! Hopefully whoever loses between UWP and UWO doesn't fall off the rankings.

I don't know if anything is safe to say.  I think St. Thomas gets in to the regional rankings after beating Concordia giving them the best win of any of the 2 loss teams.  This in turn also gives St. John's a regionally ranked win that will be counted in the secret rankings?

Seems like Bethel can only count on a receiving a regional win against St. John's or St. thomas...but not both. If Concordia can knocks off UST (which is very possible), then Wartburg might be their only hope for a second regional win.

things just got a helluva lot interesting for the top spot in the West.

[desertcat1]

it's always fun in the west.      I think the west has been in the stagg the last ten years?

[hazzben]

So it's safe to say that Bethel probably can't count on St. John's as a regional win? Assuming Bethel takes care of the Johnnies? 

You're right about Whitewater becoming a huge Wash U fan now!! Hopefully whoever loses between UWP and UWO doesn't fall off the rankings.

I don't know if anything is safe to say.  I think St. Thomas gets in to the regional rankings after beating Concordia giving them the best win of any of the 2 loss teams.  This in turn also gives St. John's a regionally ranked win that will be counted in the secret rankings?

Seems like Bethel can only count on a receiving a regional win against St. John's or St. thomas...but not both. If Concordia can knocks off UST (which is very possible), then Wartburg might be their only hope for a second regional win.

things just got a helluva lot interesting for the top spot in the West.

Yep, a 3 loss SJU is gone from the rankings, regardless of how UST v. Cobbers shakes out. If UST were to beat Concordia, there's a slight chance Concordia could stay in the rankings. They'd have to have a competitive loss, IMO. Then it's a question of how the committee stacks up all the two loss teams (Redlands, SJU, UST, Concordia, Wartburg, etc.)

For Whitewater's sake, I think you should be cheering for UWP. If UWO loses they could still stay in, UWP's SOS will be a big millstone to overcome.